Whether the issue is simple miscommunication or not, the surprising thing to me here is the agent’s insistance on retaining the “deposit”. One might think that any such professional intent on maintaining a good name would return the funds and move on once the transaction had gone this pear-shaped. I smell a rat.
[QUOTE=roamingnome;8156279]
You may be right, I read it as ‘I called for full vet records’ the next day, or as ‘I need the full vet records to go over before I can pay/get the horse here.’
Either way, you’d think that would have been put in with the receipt- something like sale contingent upon vetting.
Again, still not sure why vet records were necessary if OP wanted the horse no matter what, and didn’t want to do a PPE. Teeth/shots all need to be done annually/semi-annually, so I don’t see why specific dates are needed to make the decision of yes/no on horse purchase.[/QUOTE]
I truly find it odd that you don’t keep records of what is done and when to your horses. But also for insurance purposes they require knowing who, what, where and when.
I’m so sorry, OP. I truly think the agent scammed you from the get-go 
It upsets me to say that. I am an agent as well and I’ve heard lots of negative sale stories, but this one is just plain low. Don’t stop fighting. Get your money back!
[QUOTE=jennycash;8157184]
I truly find it odd that you don’t keep records of what is done and when to your horses. But also for insurance purposes they require knowing who, what, where and when.[/QUOTE]
I’m kind of surprised by some of the responses to that, too, as someone who hasn’t purchased a horse yet. Asking about the vet records seems like something I’d do just so I had whatever history was available so that I had the best information for future care of the horse - I can understand that some people might not be comfortable providing that, and I think I’ve read pros and cons about that on COTH before, but it wouldn’t occur to me that someone would take that request as ‘so now I don’t want the horse.’ If they said no about the vet records and weren’t otherwise being weird and fishy (like avoiding calls and putting the horse up for sale again and so on as seems to have happened here) then I’d probably shrug, and continue on with the purchase anyway if the horse seemed suitable.
(I mean, I’d have a PPE done, myself, but that’d be included in the terms of the sale.)
Past barn manager here. Insofar as knowing your vet records i.e.: vaccination dates, routine/ unusual procedures/ injuries, dental visits, etc. You all would be gobsmacked at how many owners have ZERO clue what was done to horse, when, never mind why. They just paid the bill when it came in and rarely asked questions.
I could never put a note on a board saying “If you want Dobbin’s teeth floated, please add your name” because some would never sign up and others would sign up 4x a year. They never kept their own records, much less asked why/ what was being performed on their horses and how it impacted well-being.
I can excuse and agent for not knowing/ owner needing time to gather info. If this is a TRUE sale barn, “Dealer” has no clue and doesn’t want to expend the effort into finding out the “Health Records” of the nags that came off the last truck from ‘out west’.
Add me to the list of those who don’t keep records. My husband is a vet, so I start asking for a new Coggins in January and get it in March. He does a 7 way and rabies in the spring. We get teeth floated in the spring. We do fecals/worming as needed. I guess I’d have a record if he gave me a bill.
The very few times I’ve had a sick horse I do keep a diary of temperature, medication, feed consumption and symptoms.
That was my one thought, Sansena, why would the agent have any knowlege of the horse’s health records? Or interest in them? Or access to them? I would think that would be between the owners, old and new.
OP, hoping you get this resolved to your satisfaction.
[QUOTE=Ambitious Kate;8157294]
That was my one thought, Sansena, why would the agent have any knowlege of the horse’s health records? Or interest in them? Or access to them? I would think that would be between the owners, old and new.[/QUOTE]
Except that when OP contacted owner she was told to deal with Agent… so calling Agent to discuss the health records, plus the other logistics makes sense to me… not because Agent has the records, but because this it the point person for communication re: the horse
[QUOTE=Sansena;8157252]
I can excuse and agent for not knowing/ owner needing time to gather info. If this is a TRUE sale barn, “Dealer” has no clue and doesn’t want to expend the effort into finding out the “Health Records” of the nags that came off the last truck from ‘out west’.[/QUOTE]
Yes, I can excuse them for not knowing, and needing time. But when selling a horse, I would at least think the Coggins would be handy. If the buyer wanted a record of vaccines and teeth…that would take me about a half hour to get from my vet if I couldn’t find my copy; maybe for others it might take somewhat longer. But the current Coggins…seems like it should be somewhere in a folder being held by the agent to produce when asked.
I haven’t read every post here but did try to keep up. It sounds to me that the sellers just got a better offer after they accepted a deposit. And since there is no contract that they are holding the horse, I think the buyer is SOL. As long as they get their deposit back, no harm, no foul.
OP - I must have missed - did you get the deposit back?
[QUOTE=jennycash;8151706]
We did not haul the trailer, figured we would save the gas for the trial ride and if we decided to purchase, put down deposit and pick up next week. The deposit was in cash. The signed paper only states I paid in cash and have a balance that will be due when horse is picked up. Agents signature to complete it. Absolutely nothing else.[/QUOTE]
You know, I read this (again?) not sure if I ever saw this post. It sort of makes things a bit clearer for me. When I read this it almost looks like an incomplete sale - an obnoxious agent could consider this not sold until she pays for the horse in full. I know, there’s a deposit, and the agent should have honored what he clearly agreed to. However, he may have considered that the horse goes to the first person to hand over the sale price, and continued to show it until the OP came back, picked up the horse and finished the transaction.
Should he have? No. but how many times in the horse world does a deal unpaid for go wonky?
Who knows. I just wonder if the agent considered her non-existent until she paid for the horse, but then why not answer the phone, that was creepy.
Wierd.
Sorry again this happened to you. Just trying to feature the things that happeend.
[QUOTE=Kwill;8156616]
I still don’t see how the seller, whoever it is, can possibly think they can keep that amount of money. That’s way more than a deposit.[/QUOTE]
If you think the agent intends for one penny of that deposit to leave his pocket and go to the seller I have a really nice bridge up in NYC I would like to talk to you about.
[QUOTE=Flash44;8157293]
Add me to the list of those who don’t keep records. My husband is a vet, so I start asking for a new Coggins in January and get it in March. He does a 7 way and rabies in the spring. We get teeth floated in the spring. We do fecals/worming as needed. I guess I’d have a record if he gave me a bill.
The very few times I’ve had a sick horse I do keep a diary of temperature, medication, feed consumption and symptoms.[/QUOTE]
As someone who would ask, I would be okay with “I can’t get those together easily, but here is the relevant stuff for shipping” (assuming the seller was claiming the horse was current on Coggins and so on) or something similar. Or tell me the owner needs to contact me directly or whatever. It’s the idea that asking means you don’t want the horse that has me head scratching.
As someone trying to free lease a horse, I don’t keep a written record of his vet work. However, it is easy enough for me to call my vets office and ask when it got done and if I can come pick up records… I don’t know why an owner would want to JUST work through an agent. Work with an agent, yes, but to completely step away from the process and not offer any info, records, or anything but a “talk to agent” is beyond me. When I sold my last horse through an agent, I was more than willing to work with the owners as well… My agent handled the numbers, contracts, and trial rides. I still talked with the owners and helped a little in the process.
Speaking as a seller here. I once sold a 2 yr old gelding in much the same manner as the OP describes. Fellow left me 20% down and went home to make arangements at his board barn and for trailer (I think he was going to borrow one). I never heard back form him again! I called. No answer. I called. No answer. Left messages. No return calls. He fell off the earth somewhere. Two months later I sold the gelding to someone else. Now, several years later, I still wonder whatever happened to him. Meanwhile the horse is doing nicely with the people that did purchase him.
This does NOT excuse the agent in this case. Just telling you all about something that happened to me.
Having never paid a deposit I am wondering that the protocol is - if you pay a deposit to hold horse pending transport, PPE etc, and then you decide not to buy the horse do you forfeit the deposit? Or is it just to ‘hold’ the horse and you get a refund if you change your mind? I am wondering if the behaviour of the agent would be dictated by what is standard practice (if there is actually a standard practice?).
I am of the mind the the agent did a crumby thing, however I am not sure we have the whole story, nor do I know how deposits work, so reserving some judgement.
[QUOTE=toady123;8157383]
Having never paid a deposit I am wondering that the protocol is - if you pay a deposit to hold horse pending transport, PPE etc, and then you decide not to buy the horse do you forfeit the deposit? Or is it just to ‘hold’ the horse and you get a refund if you change your mind? I am wondering if the behaviour of the agent would be dictated by what is standard practice (if there is actually a standard practice?).
I am of the mind the the agent did a crumby thing, however I am not sure we have the whole story, nor do I know how deposits work, so reserving some judgement.[/QUOTE]
Normally the deposit holds the horse for X amount of time. Time stated in deposit contract (which was not present in the above case). Say, deposit will hold the horse for a week for buyer to arrange transport/vet check/ect. After that time period is up and arrangements have NOT been made then seller can move on and show/sell horse to someone else. A deposit may be returned but most often is not as the deposit is used to pay the further expenses of re-advertising, feed/board, until a purchaser for the horse is found. If horse is sold before the total of the deposit has been used than a portion of the deposit should be returned.
Right, and once the OP said no, I’m not taking the horse, that was the end of the deposit, even if it seemed pretty wonky before that. Until that point, she could have demanded the deposit back, because she was buying the horse on good faith and the agent was flaking out.
Once she said no, I’m not taking the horse, then she’s the one who flaked out, I know she didn’t mean to, but she’s the one who canceled the deal when the agent specifically asked - do you want the horse? Deposit is likely gone at that point.
Assuming owner is willing to release the vet records (and some people are not for various reasons), all they have to do is give buyer the name/number of the vet and give the vet permission to release the records. At that point, the buyer can ask the vet for as much or as little information as they want and the vet can charge the buyer accordingly for any costs associated with producing the records. Owner/agent doesn’t actually have to know or possess any information themselves.
[QUOTE=PoohLP;8157431]
Assuming owner is willing to release the vet records (and some people are not for various reasons), all they have to do is give buyer the name/number of the vet and give the vet permission to release the records. At that point, the buyer can ask the vet for as much or as little information as they want and the vet can charge the buyer accordingly for any costs associated with producing the records. Owner/agent doesn’t actually have to know or possess any information themselves.[/QUOTE]
True.
But it isn’t even on point for this problem.
OP, you can always email the seller and agent the link to this thread…I am sure more than one of your 20.000 closest friends would like to know the identity of agent, seller and horse 
