Well, somehow the agent cpnsiders the buyer was in breech of contract because they didn’t pay the balance on the horse. She told the agent she doesn’t want the horse, as well, so the whole thing is moot.
The only question is does she get her ‘deposit’ back? Since the OP says it wasn’t called a deposit, and it was more of a parital payment, I doubt she’sll get it back.
She negotiated a lower price based on the fact she had cash in hand.
She only makes a partial payment
The agent considers her in breech of (implied) contract because she didn’t pay the rest of the money for the horse.
I don’t know how happy I would be if someone negotiated a lower price for a horse I was selling based on them having the money in cash, in hand, then they only pay me part of the sales price and go home promising to pay the rest in a week when they pick up the horse. It wouldn’t seem like cash in hand to me, any more.
If I was selling a horse, I would consider it sold once I had the sales price in its entirety. Until then, according to my personal sales rules, all bets are off, and the horse is for sale until the sales price is paid.
OK, I took a partial payment from a girl. Meanwhile, the horse is still for sale.
I might be surprised, give them a receipt for the partial payment, then start being pretty pissed they got a deal from me and didn’t pay up the balance. Meanwhile, the dang horse is still for sale.
[QUOTE=Ambitious Kate;8157467]
Well, somehow the agent cpnsiders the buyer was in breech of contract because they didn’t pay the balance on the horse. She told the agent she doesn’t want the horse, as well, so the whole thing is moot.
The only question is does she get her ‘deposit’ back? Since the OP says it wasn’t called a deposit, and it was more of a parital payment, I doubt she’sll get it back.
She negotiated a lower price based on the fact she had cash in hand.
She only makes a partial payment
The agent considers her in breech of (implied) contract because she didn’t pay the rest of the money for the horse.
I don’t know how happy I would be if someone negotiated a lower price for a horse I was selling based on them having the money in cash, in hand, then they only pay me part of the sales price and go home promising to pay the rest in a week when they pick up the horse. It wouldn’t seem like cash in hand to me, any more.
If I was selling a horse, I would consider it sold once I had the sales price in its entirety. Until then, according to my personal sales rules, all bets are off, and the horse is for sale until the sales price is paid.
OK, I took a partial payment from a girl. Meanwhile, the horse is still for sale.
I might be surprised, give them a receipt for the partial payment, then start being pretty pissed they got a deal from me and didn’t pay up the balance. Meanwhile, the dang horse is still for sale.[/QUOTE]
Not sure how you figured out those details.
It reads to me like money changed hands and the crickets took over communications.
Can you be accused of breeching contract when the other party doesn’t pick up the phone?
Also, I might, if I were a hardass, say, what is she calling me about vet records for, she hasn’t even paid for the horse! What is calling me going to do? Its supposed to be “cash in hand!” She’s going to have to give me cash for the rest of the horse! She’s going to have to come out here, to hand it over, so why is she calling me? You want to pay me? come and pay me. Otherwise, I have to keep trying to sell this horse.
Finally the agent calls her back, tells her she flaked out, negotiated a lower price, so assumes she can’t really afford the horse, plus where’s the rest of the money? Supposed to be ‘cash in hand?’ Do you want the horse?
Owner tells him, no, she doesn’t want it any more.
Fine, says the agent. And, though he hasn’t said it to her, (or has he?) no, you won’t be getting a refund on the money you paid towards the horse.
Dunno if that’s what happened, but its the only possible sense I can make of the drip feed of information morsels on this thread. Just not getting a sense we have the wholel story. This is all I can conclude.
I understand the OP thought an entirely different take on the story. Its just that she didn’t make any of it clear, did alot of assuming, and handed over cash, which is entirely untraceable, and didn’t get a sales contract. So, as the agent said, “lesson learned”.
Pay for a horse, and its yours, until then, be smart.
The agent agreed to the lower price and the deposit as the agent is the one that made out the contract/agreement. If he did not want to accept a lower price and a deposit, all he had to do was say “no”.
How can OP pay for the horse when the agent no longer replied to calls, texts, or e-mails? Why wouldn’t OP ask for vet records? I don’t see where she demanded them in hand by end of day? She was probably thinking she would pick them up when she picked up the horse.
[QUOTE=Ambitious Kate;8157486]
Also, I might, if I were a hardass, say, what is she calling me about vet records for, she hasn’t even paid for the horse! What is calling me going to do? Its supposed to be “cash in hand!” She’s going to have to give me cash for the rest of the horse! She’s going to have to come out here, to hand it over, so why is she calling me? You want to pay me? come and pay me. Otherwise, I have to keep trying to sell this horse. [/QUOTE]
It’s 12 hour drive, right? It’s not like the horse is in the next town, and OP can pop over and pay up already! She was calling the Agent to make those arrangements… cause to just show up unannounced at a farm to pick up a horse you put a deposit on would be frowned on… and stupid.
I think the agent knew that arrangements would have to be made to pick horse up… and I assumed that the understanding was that the remaining payment would be made at that time…
[QUOTE=Ambitious Kate;8157486]Finally the agent calls her back, tells her she flaked out, negotiated a lower price, so assumes she can’t really afford the horse, plus where’s the rest of the money? Supposed to be ‘cash in hand?’ Do you want the horse?
Owner tells him, no, she doesn’t want it any more.
Fine, says the agent. And, though he hasn’t said it to her, (or has he?) no, you won’t be getting a refund on the money you paid towards the horse.
Dunno if that’s what happened, but its the only possible sense I can make of the drip feed of information morsels on this thread. Just not getting a sense we have the wholel story. This is all I can conclude.
I understand the OP thought an entirely different take on the story. Its just that she didn’t make any of it clear, did alot of assuming, and handed over cash, which is entirely untraceable, and didn’t get a sales contract. So, as the agent said, “lesson learned”.
Pay for a horse, and its yours, until then, be smart.[/QUOTE]
Yeah,… except the Agent accepted the down payment/deposit and agreed to receiving the remainder of the purchase price at a later date… per the deposit receipt written and signed by the Agent… sooo… no. Not really.
Dacasodivine, great minds…
Alagirl, get outta’ my head, I’m starting to wonder the same thing… or is Ambitious Kate the HorseOwner! Dun, dun, DUNNNNNNNN… :lol:
As someone just beginning to think about (grudgingly) getting back into horse shopping this makes me cringe. All I can say is, “GO OP GO!” Get your lawyer, take him to small claims, spread his name around, whatever, because as I read it, this is crap.
Requesting vet records, requesting anything really is not unreasonable as all it takes is a quick text of “no,” “okay” “we’ll give at pick up” or whatever. That is a non issue if you want to sell anything. That would be followed by a “still want him,right?”
Sure, the deposit could have been stronger - buyer has 6 days to come up with balance/cme get horse, whatever, but clearly states she still owes X amount, intent to buy. If they were getting higher/better offers they could text/call/email and remind her - you have till monday to pay up, get the horse.
But no communication at all? Followed by “people are trying him,we’ll get back to you,don’t buy a horse if you don’t have the money?” That sounds very hinky to me.
Seems like OP made a partial payment for horse. But horse was still being shown and “we’ll get back to you” sounds like “agent” was giving those lookers first option, in spite of deposit/payment.
Maybe the Chronicle itself might like to do an article on fraud in horse buying because that’s a lousy way to do business, and so easily resolved! It sounds like even if OP paid in full she would have lost her money!
Go OP go and I sure hope it works out for you (you get your money and eventually a really really nice horse!)
[QUOTE=jennycash;8155138]Well finally got in touch with agent. “Call it a lesson learned. If you can’t afford the horse don’t put a deposit down.” All this because I asked for vet records for shots, teeth, ect.
Police said it was civil matter so I have to go to Small Claims Court and deal with it there.
Because the “contract” that was written does not state it was refundable or non-refundable do I have an legal standing?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=jennycash;8155442]Agent is selling on behalf of the owner. Would a receipt differ much from a sellers contract?
Today when agent asked over phone is the first time I said I do not want the horse.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=jennycash;8155875]Now it’s a week later and I’m just getting a call back, after never getting a response about records, after seeing a new ad put up after money was given.
Would you purchase the horse in this same scenario?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Alagirl;8157474]Not sure how you figured out those details.
It reads to me like money changed hands and the crickets took over communications.
Can you be accused of breeching contract when the other party doesn’t pick up the phone?[/QUOTE]
To me, the contract says that she is supposed to pay the balance on the 13th in cash when she picks up the horse. So for all we know, the agent was standing there on the 13th wondering why the OP didn’t pick up the horse and feeling screwed.
So the OP didn’t go pick up the horse on the 13th because when she got home and called the agent about vet papers he didn’t call her back? She knew how to pay the agent - On the 13th, in cash, when she picked up the horse. She didn’t do it. She flaked out, getting all wonky because he didn’t call her back about the vet papers?
Personally, if I had that receipt, I would have made sure I lived up to the agreement - cash on the 13th when I picked up the horse.
I don’t know why the OP didnt’ pick up the horse on the 13th. If it was because she wanted to hear somone on the phone, first, before she left, and it was me, and I didn’t get a return phone call, I would be on the road with my trailer, cash in hand, ready to pay on the 13th like I promised I would.
That;'s why the agent figures she breached the contract. Its why he figures she couldn’t afford it. No, he wasn’t going to answer the phone a week later, on the 18th when she never showed up on the 13th.
The OP was upset when she saw the horse for sale on the 16th! Looks to me like the agent got stiffed and put the horse back on the market.
How many return phone calls does the OP need to abide by her agreement and pick up her horse on the 13th? She’s the one who said she would pick up on the 13th and pay the rest of the purchase price.
I don’t know why she was waiting for a green light from the agent over the phone, she already made an agreement with him to pay the remainder of the sales price on the 13th when she picked up the horse. When she didn’t show, he put the horse back on the market.
I don’t think the OP didn’t get the horse because she called asking about vet records. I think she didn’t get the horse because she failed to show up and pay for it on the 13th.
I don’t think the OP didn’t get the horse because she called asking about vet records. I think she didn’t get the horse because she failed to show up and pay for it on the 13th.
Most of the OPs complaints and worries on this thread are about getting or not getting response about her request for records. Its as though she went home, called asking for records, and then stopped the furtherance of buying the horse until she got a return call about vet records. She had already made an agreement, with money down, to buy the horse on the 13th, which she didn’t. I am sure adding in the records thing, and not letting go of that, and not showing up to buy the horse with a trailer on the 13th pretty much quashed the deal.
[QUOTE=jennycash;8157184]
I truly find it odd that you don’t keep records of what is done and when to your horses. But also for insurance purposes they require knowing who, what, where and when.[/QUOTE]
I never said I don’t keep records. I 100% keep records. I just don’t know that info off the top of my head… so I wouldn’t expect an agent to either.
I’ve also never asked for hard copy vet records, unless something came up in the PPE, then I’d want to know.
Also, I mentioned that knowing whether or not the horse had spring shots would make sense, but why you would need the last hard date of the fall shots, or last years spring shots isn’t a big deal to me. I get that this agent is sketchy, so you wouldn’t trust his word, but I’ve trusted that when the owner/trainer I’m buying from says they’re up to date that they are. Hopefully you get your money back.
[QUOTE=dacasodivine;8157565]
The deposit was paid on the 13th. OP was going back the next weekend to pick up the horse.[/QUOTE]
I think Ambitious Kate was correct, the 13th was the pickup date, when reading what OP says is the exact wording on the paper.
If people are making handwritten papers, date everything! That’s why contracts drawn up by lawyers are so complicated – to avoid exactly these kinds of situations.
$_____ Cash paid up on 5-13-15 [she paid deposit on 5/13]
for a bal due of $_____ at time of pick up. [the balance of the price is due at pick up which is not the 13th]
I’m assuming those of you who think the balance was due the 13th are reading the receipt this way?
$_____ Cash paid. [deposit]
up on 5-13-15 for a bal due of $_____ at time of pick up.
Ohh - maybe your’e right, I read it as the balance to be paid up on the 13th at time of pick up. The OP has not said, then when the agreement was that she was going to return to pick up the horse.
I still stand by my feeling that the OP was supposed to come back with money and trailer and never did. THere is some reason the agent feels she never picked up the horse, didn’t want it and breached the agreement, or was stalling, or something and didn’t come back and get the horse. As agreed. SHe had to agree to something about picking it up, and its clear she never did.
After re-reading, yes, the deposit was put down on the 13th.
Somehow between the 13th and the 15th the agent decided the OP wasn’t going to pay for the horse (or wasn’t going to sell the horse for the lower negotiated price) and relisted it.
That’s the agents decision (scummy), but I don’t see anywhere in this discussion how the agent could keep the deposit. Seller cancels sale = return deposit.
[QUOTE=Ambitious Kate;8157554]
I don’t think the OP didn’t get the horse because she called asking about vet records. I think she didn’t get the horse because she failed to show up and pay for it on the 13th.
Most of the OPs complaints and worries on this thread are about getting or not getting response about her request for records. Its as though she went home, called asking for records, and then stopped the furtherance of buying the horse until she got a return call about vet records. She had already made an agreement, with money down, to buy the horse on the 13th, which she didn’t. I am sure adding in the records thing, and not letting go of that, and not showing up to buy the horse with a trailer on the 13th pretty much quashed the deal.
Is she getting her money back? Probably not.[/QUOTE]
I am really trying to understand how you came to the belief you express in the 2nd paragraph, so here’s the timeline based on the OPs posts, cause I really do NOT want to clean this house today… and maybe it will help me understand where you get the impression you do…
May. 15, 2015,
I drove a total of 12 hours to try a horse that was for sale…
I put a deposit down. There was a quick contract written by agent.
Basically just states I put ___ down and ____ left to pay when I pick horse up. The following day I had a few more questions as far as records (vet and show), previous info and what not.
It has been a few days now and I haven’t heard a word. I have called, text, emailed. Not a single response from them.
I can’t even schedule to pay off and pick up this gelding is worrying me.
May. 16, 2015
Just saw a new ad for the gelding! And still no response.
May. 17, 2015,
Tried calling owner and agent multiple times yesterday as well. Nada!
Finally received a text from selling agent saying people are trying him today and he will call me next week. When I responded with needing my refund, no answer.
May. 18, 2015,
Well finally got in touch with agent.
“Call it a lesson learned. If you can’t afford the horse don’t put a deposit down.”
All this because I asked for vet records for shots, teeth, ect.
May. 18, 2015
Here is the exact contract (without names/numbers) for those who have asked.
“I _____ sell one 5 year old gelding for the some of $____
$_____ Cash paid up on 5-13-15 for a bal due of $_____ at time of pick up.
I will supply brand inspection at pick up and papers will be sent after payment in full.”
*His signature
Agent
May. 18, 2015
Not until today did I ever tell them I didn’t want the horse (not that I could have since they don’t answer).
They stated I breeched contract because of my apparent money issues and not buying him. Yet he was for sale again on Saturday?
[QUOTE=Ambitious Kate;8157623]
Ohh - maybe your’e right, I read it as the balance to be paid up on the 13th at time of pick up. The OP has not said, then when the agreement was that she was going to return to pick up the horse.
I still stand by my feeling that the OP was supposed to come back with money and trailer and never did. THere is some reason the agent feels she never picked up the horse, didn’t want it and breached the agreement, or was stalling, or something and didn’t come back and get the horse. As agreed. SHe had to agree to something about picking it up, and its clear she never did.[/QUOTE]
And I still think that scumbag dealer got his ass chewed by the owner for selling the horse at whatever negotiated price he agreed to on the 13th, so when OP contacted him with additional, reasonable questions just for future reference regarding her new horse, he used it as a opportunity to flake on the original sales agreement.
He then made the situation ten times worse by banking on the fact that OP was either 6 or 12 hours away (it’s not totally clear to me which) and won’t go through the hassle of trying to collect the partial payment back if he is a d*ck about refunding it.
OP - I hope you’ve kept any emails, voicemails, or texts that you have sent or gotten from this dude. Not a lawyer, but the couple of times I’ve gone to small claims over a contract issue - having that communication has been pretty important to winning the case.
May. 18, 2015,
Well finally got in touch with agent.
“Call it a lesson learned. If you can’t afford the horse don’t put a deposit down.”
All this because I asked for vet records for shots, teeth, ect.
There stuff in quotations seems to be what the agent said. It also sounds like they were not happy about nego of price and not paying all money at the time of deposit. Now they have had time to think about it and… shit horse is for sale again (yes, I AM reading into one simple comment)
