Painta-Pintaloosa's!!

[QUOTE=RegentLion;4103768]
Let me see if I understand…

  1. Some people like pintaloosas, some people don’t. It is OK for people to have their personal preferences. We all have our “dream color.”

  2. It seems to be an OK thing to breed a quality horse to a quality horse. Within reason-- a quality mini bred to a quality saddlebred might a little questionable, but two quality individuals of similar type seems to be what this board promotes generally. “Breed the best to the best and hope for the best.”

  3. Concerns with the Paint (or Pinto) x Appaloosa cross are:
    –The quality of the registry. Some people feel that the registry is fine and others feel it is sketchy.

–Some people are afraid that others are breeding “fuglies” just to see what kind of color mishmash they are going to get. They aren’t breeding QUALITY to QUALITY but COLOR. By making the “breed” Pintaloosa popular, you get people trying to jump on the bandwagon and breeding their FUGLY Homozygous Tobi to their FUGLY Appaloosa to get the fashionable breed. These people don’t care or understand about movement, conformation, or ability.

–The fuglies that result from poor breedings (for color only) often don;t have a great chance at life. A newer/sort of sketch registry and little or no quality to keep them from the auction.

–There is concern over genes that can be hidden (not seen visibly) and can crop out later. Particularly the lethal white gene. If breeders of Pinto x App crosses aren’t really careful then they could end up with a baby with a genetic disorder.

Have I about covered it? Doesn’t seem like people are opposed to the PATTERN provided there was significant care /genetic mapping before the breeding took place to eliminate (or reduce) genetic disasters. Seems like people are worried about the FUTURE OF THE FOAL.

And I don’t think ANYONE of us is Ok with people breeding back yard horses of any color or breed. We don’t need any more craptastic horses in this world.[/QUOTE]

This is exactly what I was thinking. Regardless of the merits of the horse being well conformed and talented, is the big issue that it seems to be irresponsible to take the chance if it might result in an untalented, ugly horse? Whose chances have been made way worse with the advent of being an un-registerable mutt to add to the legions of other mix-bloods or unsuitable for work types? I mean, an ugly horse can be a great mover, but if he’s neither it’s just unfortunate for him. It’s already difficult enough to find homes for all the pure blood horses, whether it be paint, appy, QH, arabian, TB, etc. etc.

I love seeing a beautiful paint or appy, and their crosses can be excellent. But in this market, it’s difficult to justify going out of the way to breed a disadvantages horse.
But, hey, it’s a free country and I’m sure he/she will be loved and happy. :slight_smile:

Good breeding = conformation and athleticism first.

That said, the “Paintaloosa” I bought for my new husband 30 years ago (10 years later, former husband…:lol:), came from a stellar show jumping career background and lived to be 42 years old. Was sound and ridden until he was 35. Gorgeous horse. Blue roan appy with tobiano markings. Surely some TB in him as well as he was lighter in body type.

Hybrid vigor can produce exceptional animals…but it can also run amok if not done carefully. He surely got that and all the best of his genes. His conformation, brain and ability were outstanding. But he was an exception - a freaky perfect product of hybrid vigor. But whoever bred him obviously put conformation and ability first.

He’ll always be near and dear to my heart, but as a breeder I understand the crapshoot if one is only breeding for color first. Personally and ethically I’d never go that way…sacrificing too many babies to reach that goal.

I just lucked out by getting this guy, but it’s not the norm, I’m sure. The practice of breeding without making conformation and ability first thing is troublesome for sure.

Look at each of these horses and tell me… which ones do you think are the paints and which are the paintaloosas? Everybody has their own breed preferences some love thoroughbreds others don’t, some hate paints, some hate anything but the purest warmblood. Thats your opinion. But really… what it all comes down to is, unless the Appy is really appearant would you even recognize it???

Horse 1: http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac231/gardencreekfarm/b7ea1960-465c-4c74-b767-28ca.jpg

Horse 2: http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac231/gardencreekfarm/3302258.jpg

Horse 3: http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac231/gardencreekfarm/razz-red-roan-tobiano-colt.jpg

Horse 4:
http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac231/gardencreekfarm/PEPTO-WEB.jpg

Horse 5:
http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac231/gardencreekfarm/Peptosboonstreaker5.jpg

Horse 6:http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac231/gardencreekfarm/Berry.jpg

Here’s the answers: 1:Paintaloosa . 2: Paintaloosa . 3: Paint . 4: Paint 5. Paint . 6: Paint

Not to mention the pintaloosa and paintaloosa’s that keep one characteristic over the other, or who turn up completely solid.

Just food for thought.

[QUOTE=gardencreekfarm;6335758]
Look at each of these horses and tell me… which ones do you think are the paints and which are the paintaloosas? Everybody has their own breed preferences some love thoroughbreds others don’t, some hate paints, some hate anything but the purest warmblood. Thats your opinion. But really… what it all comes down to is, unless the Appy is really appearant would you even recognize it???

Horse 1: http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac231/gardencreekfarm/b7ea1960-465c-4c74-b767-28ca.jpg

Horse 2: http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac231/gardencreekfarm/3302258.jpg

Horse 3: http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac231/gardencreekfarm/razz-red-roan-tobiano-colt.jpg

Horse 4:
http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac231/gardencreekfarm/PEPTO-WEB.jpg

Horse 5:
http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac231/gardencreekfarm/Peptosboonstreaker5.jpg

Horse 6:http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac231/gardencreekfarm/Berry.jpg

Here’s the answers: 1:Paintaloosa . 2: Paintaloosa . 3: Paint . 4: Paint 5. Paint . 6: Paint

Not to mention the pintaloosa and paintaloosa’s that keep one characteristic over the other, or who turn up completely solid.

Just food for thought.[/QUOTE]

This is the whole problem. You cannot tell by looking at them what color genes they are carrying. The Appaloosa spotting gene can be hidden amongst the pinto genes and vice-versa. THAT is what makes combining them unwise. Someone buys what they think is a pinto and hates Appaloosa. Then breeds it and out pops the hated Appaloosa. Or vise-versa.

No need to combine these color genes to get a quality horse.

Not a breeder -but I think I am a “pintaloosa” owner :slight_smile:

(my horse was purchased grade/ no info)

He has obvious pinto markings and less obvious appaloosa spots and characteristics.

I guess I am jumping in because I love my pintaloosa and when he retires would love to have one just like him. Though I do not know if his athletic ability and excellent temperament are due to the “pintaloosa breed”. Does anyone have insight as to the general chararcterisitcs of the cross?

Conformation shot.

Jumping shot.

[QUOTE=cuonxc;6336489]
Not a breeder -but I think I am a “pintaloosa” owner :slight_smile:

(my horse was purchased grade/ no info)

He has obvious pinto markings and less obvious appaloosa spots and characteristics.

I guess I am jumping in because I love my pintaloosa and when he retires would love to have one just like him. Though I do not know if his athletic ability and excellent temperament are due to the “pintaloosa breed”. Does anyone have insight as to the general chararcterisitcs of the cross?

Conformation shot.

Jumping shot.[/QUOTE]

DANNNNNGGG look at that cute thing!!! How tall is he? He looks like he is a fun jumping fool!!!

Cuonxc, I love your horse. Very nice. I often wonder about the ap personality. I have a half ap and he is just the best. Easy to work with and a fun jumper as well.

DANNNNNGGG look at that cute thing!!! How tall is he? He looks like he is a fun jumping fool!!!

Cuonxc, I love your horse. Very nice. I often wonder about the ap personality. I have a half ap and he is just the best. Easy to work with and a fun jumper as well.

Thanks :yes: I LOFF him. I have never officially sticked him but I guess 14.3 or 15.0…I affectionately call him my pony :smiley:

He is just plain fun. Good jumper with a GREAT mind. Hardy as all get out. Wish I knew where he came from and how he was bred to see if he was a common result.

My half Ap is super hardy, as well. Gotta love that. He looks all Ap though. Not the greatest pic, but this was from the other day.

http://s740.photobucket.com/albums/xx44/d2jump/?action=view&current=2012-05-21Chico4.jpg

He is 17 years old. Love him.

Love him! yay for spotted ponies!

cuonxc omg how cute is he!!! I did NOT expect that jump just looking at him :lol:

Yes, I absolutely agree he’s a pintaloosa. I won’t say paintaloosa because paint is a breed, and we don’t know that, but he’s certainly a pinto, and he certainly looks to have appy characteristics.

gardencreek, I very much agree with Sonesta on her post, and I said that earlier in this thread.

People breeding Paints, people breeding Appaloosas, never mix the 2 and for good reason - they want to keep the color genetics entirely separate.

That doesn’t mean you can’t breed a quality Paint and a quality Appy if you want, but if you were a breed-specific breeder you would never do that.

In fact, I think the APHA won’t allow appy blood for this very reason.

It doesn’t matter what what a horse looks like, as per your “Not to mention the pintaloosa and paintaloosa’s that keep one characteristic over the other, or who turn up completely solid.” The phenotype of these patterns can VERY easily hide (except Tobiano, except in VERY rare cases), and the Paint breeder would be aghast to find his “Paint” ended up varnishing white because the App who didn’t look like an App had the genetics for it.

Appy breeders are a bit less particular about it, with the exception of Tobiano afaik, as they certainly don’t disallow white face and leg markings. But the funny thing is the Plaudit line of Apps is known for splash and it’s not hard to find an Appy with HUGE Splash markings on him.