We are re-working our Cob sized cart. We had planned to stain it, but when we started stripping off the finish we discovered that the stains we thought we could sand off, we really can’t.
If we are going to stain it dark enough to cover the stain, we thought we would go ahead and paint it.
Is there any particular type of paint that should be used?
Should a varnish or lacquer be placed on top of the paint?
THANKS!
Rita
I would love to hear what others have to say here because i need to refinish my cob cart one of these days too. I dont know what it was painted with but it is some HEAVY DUTY paint (i’m thinking boat type stuff?) It’s tougher than car paint.
What i can tell you though, paint kinda sucks. And if my cart were all wood, i would much vote to stain it, even it i stained it really dark. At least it wouldnt show 80 bazillion scratches or chips.
Believe me we’d love to stain instead!
I talked to Mr Horsegeeks about using an ebony stain (which was our original intention) but he thinks that even with an ebony stain the discolorations would show through enough to mar the look of the cart.
We’re replacing all the bolts (and discovered we’re not doing it any too soon!)
Butlerfamilyzoo,
THANKS for your post! I took “At least it wouldn’t show 80 bazillion scratches or chips.” down to Mr Horsegeeks (who is the only person I know that’s more stubborn than I am!)
It convinced him to try the ebony stain we’d bought earlier for the cart … the stains barely show (they’re black as well)
THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!!!
I’m glad the Ebony stain worked!
My cart was painted with automotive paint before I got it and I love it. It does have some chips here and there but nothing most people would notice.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c134/Stalknndashadows/cart3.jpg
You might want to put new shafts on while cart is apart. Do you know how old it is? Sometimes wood things should just be changed out for new. Probably your worst problem place on shafts would be under the wrapping areas. Wraps hold moisture, while screws or nails, staples, allow moisture inside the wood with rust. Wood is bad inside, but you can’t see it. Shaft will break when stressed with a spook sideways or in hard going.
We have a couple stained vehicles, they came stained, and we just redid them the same. You have to make a stain mix, so all the types of wood are the same color when finished. One vehicle has cherry slat sides with a poplar dash, other woods in other parts. Took about 6 mixes by the restorer, to get a stain mix that worked on all the wood types. They are both a lighter brown wood color, not anything dark.
Painting, we use auto paint mixed with hardeners. You want the paint very flexible to go over wood and stay in place with humidity changes, vehicle parts moving. Too hard a finish makes paint brittle, so it does chip easily, can’t take the wood moving underneath. Husband sprays it on, uses an EXPENSIVE mask with respirator to catch all the particles before he breathes in paint. Changes the filters often. Auto paint has a good sparkle to it, is a pretty tough paint to stand up to road driving and ring sand. You can get about any color mixed that you want.
You might want to check out “traditional” painting styles of vehicle types. Sporting vehicles tend to have bright color wheels, dark bodies. Formal vehicles are usually darker, rich colors with some contrasting trim. Buggies have lots of options. We once painted a lovely Trap (Sporting) in reverse colors! Had the body colored with black wheels, NICE pinstriping. Was very pretty, but really incorrect for Carriage Driving shows.
The wood all looks good. (Thank heavens!)
This is a Raber cart … I don’t believe they’re made any more. We’re replacing all the bolts, the cross brace, and the single tree. They all show signs of damage.
We’ve removed the patent leather and didn’t find any damage except the staining.
Raber really made a great cart. No idea how old it is. We bought it used about a year ago.
THANKS for all your input (automotive paint is a great idea … which we fortunately don’t need. But we have one more cart we may decide to do … though it might be cheaper to buy a new one. We haven’t decided yet.)
Twin pack auto paint is as good as you can get. You don’t need to varnish or lacquer it at all and you will get a high quality high shine finish that looks VERY traditional. You need to have paint spraying facilities though to get a good high quality finish.
It’s what I use it on most new builds and for sure when repairing and repainting old vehicles and including some very old show vehicles. (I do also use powder coating paint when doing some of the marathon vehicles but you do need specialist equipment for that.)
The only time I’d not use it is when doing a restoration. Then it’s back to old fashioned paint and painting methods! Costs a fortune and takes forever and restoration is only ever done though on an extremely high value vehicle.
Let’s be honest nowadays it’s bloody hard to find any old vehicle that hasn’t already had considerable repair throughout it’s life and with restoration being extremely expensive AND difficult that’s never really required by anything other than a specialist carriage manufacturer. Simple rule, if you have to ask how to restore or what to use then you’ll not be doing a restoration.
I believe Raber’s Buggy Shop isn’t very old and their carriages not that rare though.
I stain everything, even white wood fencing. It covers like paint, but penetrates the wood and doesn’t need restaining, just cleaning sometimes. The darkness of knotholes doesn’t even show through white stain.
I used a chocolate brown stain on the fenceposts in the pasture and nothing showed through on them either. Touching up scratches is a breeze. I think exterior stains are fantastic.
Yip
I don’t think you could get outdoor stain to take a finish coat for shine.
I use outdoor stain for things line cavelleti, jump standards, but not ever for fine furniture or carriages.
The way a good vehicle is built puts it into fine furniture in craftsmanship, fitting, assembling so panels/parts move within the framework during road travel. Just amazing some of the building skills and techniques needed to make a fine carriage. To cover those details, lovely wood panels with heavy stain for outside wood is just not the correct solution.
^ Absolutely and totally agree on that one.
You put it so well too. I read Yip’s posting earlier and couldn’t think how to express what I thought! 
Although I believe Raber is now out of business, I really like the quality of the cart’s construction. The cart definitely not an antique! Possibly 10 or 15 years old … but I’m simply guessing since we bought it used.
Our other cart is about 5 or 10 years old … and a lovely cart. We just finished a major overhaul on it.
Obviously neither cart is a candidate for restoration … just safe repair and replacement of parts … with a nice enough finish that we can take them to some shows. (If anyone can get us off the trails!)
We appreciate all your suggestions … they are very helpful!
THANKS!
Def
If you want to, you can guess how old.
Hmmm, when I had to redo the shafts on my OLD easy entry cart, I used a translucent exterior stain and finished with 4 coats of spar varnish. They came out wonderful. This cart lives outdoors - just the box is covered. The shafts live out in the rain and baking sun.
I don’t have any exp. with the auto paint. Do we have that in th eUSA?
Yip
Yes you most definitely do. You might call it two pack if my memory serves me correctly from when I used it over there!
I have a very old (probably antique, but I haven’t looked into its actual age) Jerald Viceroy Cart that I want to restore this winter. The wood on the cart is solid but not smooth on the surface. I will need to replace the wood in the shafts - or replace the shafts altogether - as I don’t think that wood is strong enough to be reliable.
I know stain is not the solution for this cart. From reading this thread, it appears that a high quality automotive paint is. There will be a lot to learn before starting this project. The leather needs restoration also. It certainly is cute!
If it’s worth anything then you need to use good quality wood as originally used and you varnish it if it was “wood” rather than paint.
If it was painted then use auto paint.
[QUOTE=Thomas_1;4956767]
If it’s worth anything then you need to use good quality wood as originally used and you varnish it if it was “wood” rather than paint.
If it was painted then use auto paint.[/QUOTE]
I’m not sure if this related to my post that is immediately above it:) but I’ll respond as though it is.
You varnish the wood in the shafts and paint the wood in the cart itself? Is that right?
It doesn’t look like it was ever painted. There is no evidence of paint at all. The cart wood seems very solid but the surface of some of the wood shows it to be very old wood and is rough.
I don’t know if it’s worth anything or not. I bought is a couple of months ago from someone who had gotten it out of an old barn to restore but didn’t have time. I didn’t pay much for it. I think it can be beautiful and safe. The shafts are all intact, but I don’t trust that wood and would like to replace it with a good-quality hardwood.
The paint on those old Jeralds is very hard, might have just popped off over the years, leaving no finish on the wood. So they COULD have been painted but now show no evidence of it. Then unfinished wood absorbed moisture making the surface rough.
Old varnished wood gets alligator finished. The varnish dries up into small yellow/brown squares like alligator hide. Varnish doesn’t seem to pop off the wood like the hard paint.
We learn as we go along. Carriage painters used auto paints years ago, but being wood and flexible, the hard drying paint did not endure well on the wood parts.
Now with auto paints you add a hardener, add as much or little as you desire for harder dried paint. Car restorers want hard paint, shines up better, sticks to the metal or fiberglass better. Carriage painter wants a less hard finished paint, because wood moisture will vary over the seasons and paint MUST flex or it will crack apart and pop off.
We get our carriage paint from the local custom car paint shop. Custom cars are BIG around here! The shop will have hundreds of colors and shades of colors to choose from. They mix it right then and you get the right hardener so you are all set to go. Any paint from them has plenty of sparkle when dried. Again, do have a good respirator mask, those sprayed paint particles are VERY TINY, easy to breathe in, damage your lungs. Change the mask filters often.
Other folks have brushed on that paint, had very nice results with it though you do have to paint quickly. You can sand between coats with fine sandpaper, take off any brush lines. Does put on a real depth of finish in paint, but hand painting is a lot of work and spraying is faster for most folks.
You might call the Jerald company if you can find the serial number on the viceroy, ask what the original finish or colors were. They would sell you the wood parts you need replaced, along with paint.
I need to find out where the serial number is. I’ve looked some. Maybe I should ask Jerald Sulky where it might be located.
Thanks for all of the information in your post. I did look more closely and there is some old brown paint, I think on it. I don’t know if it’s original or not though.
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