How common is this? Anyone here own a part of a race horse? I have seen flyers at the tracks, and have always wondered about this.
How much does it cost? I’m not really interested in doing it, more interested in learning about it.
Yes, it is very common! The cost will depend on what type of partnership is being offered. There are partnerships that are between 2 or more people splitting all costs, or larger partnerships that you can buy into and pay a “maintenance fee” once a month. Just depends on how much or little someone is willing to risk.
If you click on the “current offerings” on this partnership website, you can get some idea: www.horseplayersracingclub.com They have some horses that they have lots of fun with, and it’s not going to break the bank!
There are lots of racing syndicates. Just do an Internet search – try the classified in Blood-Horse and Thoroughbred Times, too. An ad in BH Aug. 20 edition, but it’s $1,000 per month. Just remember, you will rarely get a return on your investment – it usually ends up being just for fun and “owning” a Thoroughbred.
Hi All,
I know this is an old thread but for once the search worked!
I have some interest in joining one of the larger partnerships for a partial ownership of a racehorse that would be run frequently at Woodbine in Ontario.
This is strictly for fun, I think as a large supporter of 2nd career OTTB this may be something I’m interested in doing.
I’ve tried googling and I understand I need an AGCO Ownership, but other than that, I am somewhat stumped on figuring out where to go to learn more about cost of ownership and how to actually invest.
My questions are:
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Does anyone have suggestions for how/who to begin my inquiries to for a horse that would race primarily at Woodbine?
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Is there a reference or idea of cost I can review to see if this is even plausible? One of the referenced websites had $75-250 per share, but I understand it’s a maintenance type fee, in addition to the buy-in. Is that correct?
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Are there any other memberships I’d need other than the AGCO? Just looking for the hidden costs.
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When is a good time of year to buy-in? I imagine it’s mostly in the early spring?
Thanks!
I race at Woodbine, with one of the small trainers, so everything is very much hands on. I am in two three person partnerships, and two two person partnerships. Both include the trainer. We buy yearlings, and we also claim. Right now we have a 3 y.o. who is on hold for the year with an injury, two 2 y.o.s, one of whom is about two weeks away from his first start, which will be in OS Allowance company, and a 4 y.o. that we just claimed last Saturday.
If you have any questions, pm me, and maybe I can help. 
I am part of a partnership that is managed by a friend that I trust explicitly. To me, this is really the key. I don’t think I would really want to do it with anyone else, at least not someone that I didn’t feel the same way about. We currently have three yearlings that are in Kentucky growing up. The manager is an incredible horseman who has access to a very reputable breaking and training operation in Kentucky and an amazing trainer who we plan to use when the horses are ready as individuals to go to him.
For me this was the progression that I went through when deciding whether to enter this venture:
- Start with this question: Am I alright with it if I never see a dime of my money returned to me, let alone a profit? If the answer is yes - proceed to #2
- Do I trust the person managing the partnership, or have reason to trust them because someone I trust trusts them? If the answer is yes, proceed to #3
- Am I only investing money I can completely afford to lose? If the answer is yes, proceed to #4.
- I love horses. Am I going to be okay with letting someone else make ALL the decisions about horses that I have an interest in, and am I prepared to live with the results of those decisions? If the answer is yes, proceed to #5
- Go for it, and have fun!!!
As far as cost goes, I think it is wildly divergent, and depends on the horses that are acquired by the partnership and how they are acquired (weanlings or yearlings at auction?, two year olds in training at auction?, claiming?), and the trainer used, where they race, etc. It seems that there are options to suit all sorts of budgets.
So far, all our horses are doing is roaming around the Bluegrass growing up, but it’s already fun. We get updates and photos, and the dreaming has already begun. Hopefully by this time next year, we’ll have at least one horse ready to make a debut. If not, that’s okay too. We shall see!
Good luck and have fun if you decide to do it.
Nelson,
How did you find someone that you trust completely. This seems to be key. I have owned thoroughbreds and love them. It seems easy to make a mistake here
[QUOTE=mooonie;8784495]
Nelson,
How did you find someone that you trust completely. This seems to be key. I have owned thoroughbreds and love them. It seems easy to make a mistake here[/QUOTE]
IMO, that’s the single hardest thing for a newcomer to racing to do. We started with people we thought we could trust. It didn’t take us long to find out otherwise. Unfortunately the resources that are recommended to newcomers, like TOBA, are all but useless. The good-old-boy network is very much in control of the TB industry and newcomers are valued only for their potential to put money in other people’s pockets. (Hey do I sound cynical? I am.) It took us a decade of full immersion in the business (breeding, racing, selling) to finally reach the point where we are employing people we like and trust at every level of what we do.
And by the way, yes, we are employing them. We pay them money and they provide a service. The TB world is one of the few places where the people to whom you give money think that they are in charge, that they should make all the decisions, and that you are lucky to be exposed to their “expertise”.
My best advice to someone starting out is: Make All Your Own Decisions. Get the best advisors and trainers that you can and listen to everything they tell you. But in the end, do what feels right to you. Horse racing ownership is all about power: who has it, who thinks they have it, and who can grab it away from its rightful owner. Don’t abdicate yours under any circumstance. The people who scream the loudest when you refuse to blindly follow their dictates are those most likely to have their sticky fingers hovering just outside your pockets.
If you don’t feel qualified to make your own decisions, sit back and observe for a longer time until you do. Start small. Make monetary mistakes you can afford. You can always expand later, that part is easy.
Start by finding good people through word-of-mouth if you can. In the beginning we found insiders oddly reluctant to point us in the right direction. Like I said, they’re good ol’ boys and they want horse racing to remain a big secret. Frankly, it seems like they’d rather that you enter “the system” and fail. Talk to everyone who’s willing to give you advice. Keep what works and discard the rest. And then keep going. Eventually you’ll end up where you need to be.
[QUOTE=LaurieB;8785353]
IMO, that’s the single hardest thing for a newcomer to racing to do. We started with people we thought we could trust. It didn’t take us long to find out otherwise. Unfortunately the resources that are recommended to newcomers, like TOBA, are all but useless. The good-old-boy network is very much in control of the TB industry and newcomers are valued only for their potential to put money in other people’s pockets. (Hey do I sound cynical? I am.) It took us a decade of full immersion in the business (breeding, racing, selling) to finally reach the point where we are employing people we like and trust at every level of what we do.
And by the way, yes, we are employing them. We pay them money and they provide a service. The TB world is one of the few places where the people to whom you give money think that they are in charge, that they should make all the decisions, and that you are lucky to be exposed to their “expertise”.
My best advice to someone starting out is: Make All Your Own Decisions. Get the best advisors and trainers that you can and listen to everything they tell you. But in the end, do what feels right to you. Horse racing ownership is all about power: who has it, who thinks they have it, and who can grab it away from its rightful owner. Don’t abdicate yours under any circumstance. The people who scream the loudest when you refuse to blindly follow their dictates are those most likely to have their sticky fingers hovering just outside your pockets.
If you don’t feel qualified to make your own decisions, sit back and observe for a longer time until you do. Start small. Make monetary mistakes you can afford. You can always expand later, that part is easy.
Start by finding good people through word-of-mouth if you can. In the beginning we found insiders oddly reluctant to point us in the right direction. Like I said, they’re good ol’ boys and they want horse racing to remain a big secret. Frankly, it seems like they’d rather that you enter “the system” and fail. Talk to everyone who’s willing to give you advice. Keep what works and discard the rest. And then keep going. Eventually you’ll end up where you need to be.[/QUOTE]
“Unfortunately the resources that are recommended to newcomers, like TOBA, are all but useless. The good-old-boy network is very much in control of the TB industry and newcomers are valued only for their potential to put money in other people’s pockets”
I was asked to be a guest speaker at a couple of TOBA new owner seminars in the late 90s. I am well versed in all aspects of the industry/sport domestic and international, comfortable with public speaking. My first and last was at Keeneland. I spoke on the roll of a Bloodstock agent, the good, bad and the ugly. I do not sugarcoat thing. My presentation was well received by those attending and spent a lot of time with one on one discussions with many different people after.
My presentation was not very well received by the “powers that be”. I was told I spoke too “candidly” and to tone down, leave out the “dark side” of things the next time. I thanked them and said perhaps they should get someone else.
I have not been a member of TOBA for years.
“and newcomers are valued only for their potential to put money in other people’s pockets”
Dan Metzger the president is a nice enough guy. But it is ABSURD that he is paid over $250,000 a year running a “company” that has an annual budget of around $800-900,000. He brings little to nothing to the table and so does TOBA as far as its usefulness to the industry/sport as a whole.
When I worked full time as an agent on a good year I made $100-200,000. And there weren’t that many “good years”. If an agent, adviser is on the up and up we are paid 5% commissions. To make, earn $250,000 one has to do over $5,000,000 worth of horse trading. That’s a whole lot of “horse trading”.
There is no college, university where someone get a Bloodstock degree in 4 years. It takes years and years to learn the “trade” and in the end no matter how well versed one becomes there are no guarantees let alone job security.
Most Bloodstock agents in the end are really nothing more than horse pimps.
Personally I have always been of a mind that my job is to educate my clients and in the end put myself out of business.
The few “real” clients I have had over they years were very loyal and I was too them right from the start. I was paid a retainer and was compensated nicely on performance. Every year was not always a good year for us but they understood the nature of the beast.
That being said I also had some clients that I made a lot of money for who ended up screwing me. Disappointing but that’s not unusual regardless of the widget.
When I saw the amount of interest in this tread the other day. Even more since I started putting together my thoughts on the subject to post. But like most things horse IMO a simple question can not always be answered in a few paragraphs. I am sure most have seen I am not exactly good at being concise either.
My comments is looking more like an article on the topic. I will finish it in the near future and post as a “cross” post. Sure wish I had an editor.
[QUOTE=mooonie;8784495]
Nelson,
How did you find someone that you trust completely. This seems to be key. I have owned thoroughbreds and love them. It seems easy to make a mistake here[/QUOTE]
Mooonie:
I agree that this is the key, and that is why it was #1 on my list of questions to ask yourself.
I have to say that I got EXTREMELY lucky. The manager of our partnership is a friend who I have known for a while, well enough to like very much AND really trust. He has 20 years experience in small scale breeding and racing management for a very successful owner, but this is the first partnership he has put together. So, I really lucked out, to say the least.
I am not sure how you go about finding the right people if you don’t already have connections that you trust to use as a resource, except to say that anyone offering partnership shares, training, etc. should be perfectly willing to sit down with you and let you “interview” them so that you can get all the information you want about what it would be like to be in business with them. And, of course, ask around about them too. Then you can use what you hear, their direct answers to your questions, and your gut to decide if they are a fit for you. If they won’t do this with you, then cross them off the list right away and move on.
TOBA could be something wonderful. There are so many ways they could introduce and educate people who want to get into the business. But mostly they seem to function as a rah-rah, everything-is-wonderful PR vehicle. If they’re doing something useful, I’ve never seen it.
When we were starting out, we had a conversation with the then president of TOBA about how we would go about finding a good trainer. The conversation went like this:
TOBA: That’s easy. “We have a list of trainers and we can put you in touch with one.”
Us: “How do trainers qualify to be on your list?”
TOBA: “Qualify?”
Us: “What are the requirements?” (Skills, Ethics, Success, etc.)
TOBA: “Oh, there are no requirements. They pay us a fee and we put them on the list.”
Hmm…
Us: “We will mostly be interested in racing fillies on grass. Can you indicate a trainer that is good with fillies or turf horses?”
TOBA: “No.”
Us: “How do you choose which trainer to match us up with?”
TOBA: “You get whichever one is currently at the top of the list.”
Us: “Suppose that’s someone who isn’t a good match for what we want to do?”
TOBA: “Then I guess you’re out of luck.”
[QUOTE=LaurieB;8785869]
TOBA could be something wonderful. There are so many ways they could introduce and educate people who want to get into the business. But mostly they seem to function as a rah-rah, everything-is-wonderful PR vehicle. If they’re doing something useful, I’ve never seen it.
When we were starting out, we had a conversation with the then president of TOBA about how we would go about finding a good trainer. The conversation went like this:
TOBA: That’s easy. “We have a list of trainers and we can put you in touch with one.”
Us: “How do trainers qualify to be on your list?”
TOBA: “Qualify?”
Us: “What are the requirements?” (Skills, Ethics, Success, etc.)
TOBA: “Oh, there are no requirements. They pay us a fee and we put them on the list.”
Hmm…
Us: “We will mostly be interested in racing fillies on grass. Can you indicate a trainer that is good with fillies or turf horses?”
TOBA: “No.”
Us: “How do you choose which trainer to match us up with?”
TOBA: “You get whichever one is currently at the top of the list.”
Us: “Suppose that’s someone who isn’t a good match for what we want to do?”
TOBA: “Then I guess you’re out of luck.”[/QUOTE]
Oh my, that is really awful.
