Passier saddle fit - for a flat(ish) back

[BatataHead]

My Passier GG doesn’t fit my horse that well anymore . I’m really ready to throw myself on the floor and having a kicking, whining, tantrum. It was so hard to find a dressage saddle to fit him and I’m not looking forward to the search process again.

I love Passiers and would love to get another one. I like a hard seat, minimal saddle and narrow twist. But whatever - the main thing is I want the best fit for him. The reason the GG doesn’t work now is that his back changed dramatically over the course of a year - he was very underweight with no top line when I got him. Now he’s quite fit and has changed shapes. Mostly, his back has “poofed up” on either side of his spine. He’s a TB, but now he’s transformed from moderate rooftop to moderate table top back.

He does not have a shark fin, but does have a long, moderate wither - he’s level built, with a longish back. His back is pretty flat back to front AND side to side. The GG tips me forward a bit on him, and the panels are too slanted side to side on his back so the pressure isn’t even side to side.

I spent a ton of money in shipping fees trying to find something that fit him when I first got him (his long wither was a challenged). So, I’d like to try to narrow down my choices while trying to get a new saddle and at least spend money shipping things back and forth that have a chance of fitting. Looks like the Passier Relevant may be an option? Anyone have experience with the Relevant vs GG? Or can anyone recommend another Passier dressage model to try with flattish panels?

I hate saddle shopping so much! Sorry for ranting and thanks for listening!

[Forte]

My horse has a flat back and the saddle fitter recommended Passier Optimum

[Scribbler]

If you are shopping for a different model of the same brand, the first question is: do all the models use the same tree? If this is the case, then you will have the same saddle fit issues with all the models. I think that Passier uses only one tree, but you can check with the company.

Also, have you checked with a saddle fitter to see if any of these issues can be addressed by altering the panel flocking? If he has really outgrown his saddle, that won’t work. But it is worth asking.

[Grasshopper]

Get a good saddlefitter in (if you give us an idea of your location, we can probably help with recommendations). Patty Merli was able to adjust my Passier GG to fit my quite flat-backed mare beautifully. My impression is that the Passiers are very adjustable, between the tree and the flocking.

Good luck!

[BatataHead]

I need to contact Passier to find out - if you read the descriptions online, it sounds like they do. However, I’ve tried a number of jump saddles by Passier to make me think this is not the case (or maybe it was that some were old and the tree was redesigned).

It was a saddle fitter who told me my GG wasn’t worth reflocking, and advised to me to look for something different. She is independent/doesn’t sell saddles but suggested I try Prestige or some French saddles.

[BatataHead]

[QUOTE=Grasshopper;8445072]
Get a good saddlefitter in (if you give us an idea of your location, we can probably help with recommendations). Patty Merli was able to adjust my Passier GG to fit my quite flat-backed mare beautifully. My impression is that the Passiers are very adjustable, between the tree and the flocking.

Good luck![/QUOTE]

Thanks - I’m on the other side of the country from you but regarding Passiers being easy to adjust - I tried to schedule a master saddler from England to come check my saddle and was told Passiers are not easy to adjust or repair on site. That said, the fitter I’ve used recently (who is in state) has ref locked a Passier at my barn, but advised getting a different saddle rather than trying to reflock my GG. She’s independent, so she wasn’t trying to sell anything. So - I"m feeling a little confused.

I will try to contact Passier directly for advise also. I don’t think they have reps here, which is too bad, but I think they will respond to emails.

[BatataHead]

And maybe I need to finally just break away from my Passier allegiance and explore…

[Scribbler]

I have a Passier Optimum dressage saddle (second hand, bought as new), an old, good condition County Pro-Fit jump saddle, and a good independent saddle fitter. I’ve had the Passier stuffing tweaked, and I’ve had the County panels stripped and reflocked to my horse’s measurements.

I can’t see where reflocking or repairing a Passier would be any different from working on any other good, traditional, leather saddle with a spring tree and wool flocked panels. The saddle fitter can take them apart, fix the billets, whatever, and sew them up again.

In contrast, if the panels are filled with foam, as in the case of many of the French brands, they can’t be re-stuffed or tweaked for fit. And if they are weird closed panels like I saw recently on a Thoroughgood synthetic saddle, they couldn’t really be opened up (hard to explain; underside of saddle was all one piece).

If the independent saddle fitter says the GG is no longer a good match for your horse, and can’t be made to fit, then go with her advice.

IME, Passier head office in Germany has been very quick and happy to answer email questions about their brands. And if you are saddle shopping, you can send them the Passier serial number and find out when it was made, any special features, etc.

In addition to working with the flocking, some of the brand rep fitters will take a saddle and squeeze it in a press to make incremental changes to the width of the gullet over the withers. I tend to associate this with a saddle with a plastic tree, like a Schleese, rather than with saddle with a traditional wooden tree, like most Passiers (I’d worry about the wood cracking). The Passier website does say they use plastic trees on their lower-end saddles. Perhaps the official saddle rep is referring to trying something like this on your wooden tree saddle?

Looking at the Passier site, they do refer to being able to change or repair the withers gullet plate on the wooden tree. But that would be a major surgery job.

And there is something to keep in mind, any time a saddle is referred to as being “adjustable” because the withers gullet can be altered, whether this is your $6000 Schleese being “pressed” in the back of the rep’s truck, or your $500 Wintec with removable “gullet sizes.” If you only alter the withers fit, you do nothing about the other important aspects of back fit, which is what you are really seeing with your horse. There is no saddle out there that has a truly adjustable tree all the way down.

The reps who promise that their saddle can fit any horse fiddle with wither fit, and then try to stuff the panels to get rid of bridging, rocking, and other signs that the basic tree is incompatible with the horse’s back. This doesn’t always work, IME.

Plus, I don’t know how many times you can torque a saddle in a press to alter the withers, without starting to compromise the integrity of the tree.

[jaybird660]

The Passier saddles with freedom panels, (not hoop trees), offer more space. The panels are set a bit lower so there is more room and the gullet channels and lateral shape is not as angular as some of the older saddles.

[ewells]

I had to sell my Passier GG it’s just not made for a horse with a flat back it arched up and away from the back too much. The Trilogy ended up being a much better fit.