I decided to go to the Passier web site to see the latest and greatest dressage saddles and kept seeing this comment on the dressage saddles I liked “The width of the gullet plate can be adjusted to different horses.”
Okay…I’m now confused. They no longer offer specific sizes, but now have adjustable gullets??? What? How?
Passier saddles have had adjustable gullets for a while. Like…decades.
http://www.passier.com/en/saddles/saddle-trees/ps-saddle-tree/
You need a saddler with the special equipment. Works much the same way as the Kieffer, Prestige, Smith Worthington, etc trees.
I don’t know about the brand spanking new ones, but the older ones are stamped with the size they left the factory as. They are supposed to be re-stamped when they are altered, but that rarely happens.
Yeah, well, I just looked at it online (couldn’t get the video to load) and it looks like you can replace the gullet, but you need to use a Passier approved saddler. This is not adjustable, to me. Because if it follows the older saddles, you can only go up so many without causing problems. And if the standard on a saddle (because you CANNOT order it in a special width, only whatever they have deemed as standard) is too narrow by quite a margin, you’re hosed.
This, is not what I consider adjustable.
[QUOTE=Velvet;8670147]
Yeah, well, I just looked at it online (couldn’t get the video to load) and it looks like you can replace the gullet, but you need to use a Passier approved saddler. This is not adjustable, to me. Because if it follows the older saddles, you can only go up so many without causing problems. And if the standard on a saddle (because you CANNOT order it in a special width, only whatever they have deemed as standard) is too narrow by quite a margin, you’re hosed.
This, is not what I consider adjustable.[/QUOTE]
But isn’t this true of most saddles, that they need to be adjusted by a fitter? Or are you thinking of adjustable in terms of the saddles like Wintec/Bates that have the gullets you can change yourself?
[QUOTE=Velvet;8670147]
Yeah, well, I just looked at it online (couldn’t get the video to load) and it looks like you can replace the gullet, but you need to use a Passier approved saddler. This is not adjustable, to me. Because if it follows the older saddles, you can only go up so many without causing problems. And if the standard on a saddle (because you CANNOT order it in a special width, only whatever they have deemed as standard) is too narrow by quite a margin, you’re hosed.
This, is not what I consider adjustable.[/QUOTE]
I think you’re confused. You’re not replacing the gullet. The gullet is fitted with a plate (and the rest of the tree built around it) that can be adjusted by a saddler.
Here’s a non-video descriptor: http://www.passier.com/fileadmin/downloads/Wissenswertes/Englisch/Passier_FAQs_en_aktiv.pdf
Every single plate is adjustable throughout the whole range, so no, you are not “hosed” if you happen to buy the wrong thing or get a new horse. It may just have to be done in stages. Again, this is the same as makers like Prestige, which can only be adjusted by a half size each “adjustment” but can be adjusted many times in a row to get to the right spot.
From what I see, the new Passiers are being sold as “regular” or “wide” which should get you pretty close to the spot you need when buying new.
I don’t understand what you mean by “not adjustable”. It’s not a Wintec, no. But Passier is catering to a different level of horseperson, who is going to have the saddler out when they are fitting to a new/growing horse. Because very rarely do you need to adjust the gullet and nothing else. The flocking needs to be taken into consideration, possibly billet configuration, etc.
I see nothing wrong with their claim that their saddles are “lifetime” saddles, considering everything above.
I’m thinking that shipping the saddle cross country to an approved Passier saddler is a pain in the backside. It could be gone a long time, and have to go back and forth a few times. If they’re catering to those with a lot of money, only, now, then I’m done with Passier. I wouldn’t mind if you could have a non-approved saddler do it, but to keep the warranty, it sounds like it needs to a be an approved one. I only know of 2 in the US.
Well, correct, I guess you’re done with Passier.
But I guess I don’t understand why you’re done with them now, instead of when they came out with this technology 40 years ago. :lol: You have ALWAYS had to have them adjusted by an approved saddler.
If you are just riding one horse, I don’t see what the giant hassle is around getting the saddle adjusted once to fit that horse…if a youngster or one you use a half pad on to accommodate changes in fitness, possibly a hair wider than fitted to their naked back. If you reach out to Passier and say “Hey I used to buy saddles in your 28cm tree, do you recommend the regular or wide tree on your new saddles” I’m sure they will be able to talk you through it.
If you’re done with Passier, you’re also done with Prestige, Kieffer, Custom, Verhan, Smith Worthington, and a bunch of the other big names. As well as the fixed-tree-but-adjustable-a-few-times names like County, Albion, Black Country, etc.
If you’re truly relegating yourself to user-adjustable gullets, you’re looking at Kent & Masters, Rembrandt/Classic, Laser, PDS, and a few others. Those are a mix of exchangeable plates, and Wellup-type trees.
Then you bump down a level in quality and have Bates/Collegiate/Wintec, M. Toulouse, Thorowgood, etc.
I have multiple Smith Worthingtons, and have had one adjusted fairly drastically to use on a different horse.
I’ve always shipped them back to the factory with wither tracings, and have not had an issue. One saddle did take two tries with my hard to fit Arab, but the only extra cost was two shipments. I don’t think this is much different cost-wise than working with a fitter on site.
You’ll have to decide what your priorities are, but don’t rule out these types of saddles without really looking into the details.
[QUOTE=GoForAGallop;8670261]
Well, correct, I guess you’re done with Passier.
But I guess I don’t understand why you’re done with them now, instead of when they came out with this technology 40 years ago. :lol: You have ALWAYS had to have them adjusted by an approved saddler.
If you are just riding one horse, I don’t see what the giant hassle is around getting the saddle adjusted once to fit that horse…if a youngster or one you use a half pad on to accommodate changes in fitness, possibly a hair wider than fitted to their naked back. If you reach out to Passier and say “Hey I used to buy saddles in your 28cm tree, do you recommend the regular or wide tree on your new saddles” I’m sure they will be able to talk you through it.
If you’re done with Passier, you’re also done with Prestige, Kieffer, Custom, Verhan, Smith Worthington, and a bunch of the other big names. As well as the fixed-tree-but-adjustable-a-few-times names like County, Albion, Black Country, etc.
If you’re truly relegating yourself to user-adjustable gullets, you’re looking at Kent & Masters, Rembrandt/Classic, Laser, PDS, and a few others. Those are a mix of exchangeable plates, and Wellup-type trees.
Then you bump down a level in quality and have Bates/Collegiate/Wintec, M. Toulouse, Thorowgood, etc.[/QUOTE]
You’re not getting it. They always USED to sell them in multiple widths. What I read says they stopped. You can only get it with a stock width and then you need to alter it.
Smith Worthington does a free adjustment to your wither tracings when you buy a saddle. I’m betting Passier is doing something similar - have you reached out to a rep?
[QUOTE=Velvet;8670312]
You’re not getting it. They always USED to sell them in multiple widths. What I read says they stopped. You can only get it with a stock width and then you need to alter it.[/QUOTE]
They are still selling two widths. Like I said, I imagine if you reached out to them, told them which CM measurement you were fond of purchasing, and asked for advice, then they would be more than happy to help you.
They just reduced the number of “stock” sizes they offer, which I imagine is a very smart business decision, considering not many modern horses fit in their more narrow widths, so it’s very impractical to be building those without guaranteed demand. (IE, a placed order.)
Even if you bought a stock size ten years ago and needed it adjusted to fit a new horse, you still would have had to send it to a rep.
Exactly right, Prestige does the same thing. I’m sure if you’re buying a brand new $3500 Passier, the rep will throw in the first adjustment free. 
Or before it even leaves the warehouse you could tell them the specific measurement that you want.
This being an older post, I hope my response can still be useful to someone, who comes across it. As a certified Passier fitter, I can provide some updated info:
Let me know if you have any other questions about the adjustability of Passier trees or if you need a listing of Passier fitters in your area.
You have to have a good saddle fitter/master to get it done. It’s a slow process. Also, a Passier-approved fitter has to do it in order to keep the saddle in warranty.
this is true of all adjustable tree saddles that are not screw-in gullet plates or screw mechanisms - the company will only warranty it if people they have trained touch it.
How? What is the procedure?
I have a beloved 1968 Passier that needs some major repairs.
Please contact me (Passier Fitter) at bestsaddlefit.com and I will help you get this accomplished. Important: you must know the serial number if you want to have it recreated.
Where would I find the serial number?
On the sweat flap it says PS BAUM
Lower down, in smaller letters. it say PS P - GR III
But neither of those look like a serial number.
The number is either on the billet cover or under the flap. Turn the saddle around and look underneath. It may be quite faint as the saddle is older.
Mine is on the billet cover, though it’s not as old as your saddle. I’m hoping they’ll digitize their records from that far back so I can get more info (mine is about 40 years old).
My saddle fitter was able to narrow my dressage saddle with a Baum tree; they can only be done once or twice but she said they do fit quite a wide range of horses.
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