I have some questions about pasture grass in the Pacific NW (specifically Seattle area). [LIST=1]
A good resource would be your Ag Agent through your County Extension Office.
Thanks. I did contact the extension agent, but I never heard back from them.
The NSC of all the grasses is highly variable even over a course of a day. It’s just how they work.
The PNW has variable soil, water tables, and microclimates. Look at what your neighbors are growing. Look at what’s in your pasture now.
Where I live the first cut starts growing often in January (killed back thus year by unusual March snow) but the pastures are so wet you can’t mow until May or even June. Thus our first cut local hay is typically very coarse, gone to seed, low in protein, and very high NSC, like 25%. I don’t feed it any more.
I think that a grass that has had time to mat up into real pasture is tolerant of passing traffic (like our local cross country fields).
Locally here the hay where I’ve been able to identify species has been Timothy mixed with native grasses, or Red Top. You don’t want Canary Reed Grass hay, though horses will graze it when it’s young.
The most productive pastures around here are riverbottom soil with a high water table. But they are too wet in winter. Better drained sandy soil is better for horses but can get grazed bare over the summer.
Basically I think all our local grasses tolerate the two month dry summers in the sense of, the actual plant survives and turns green when the rain starts up.
But nothing survives overgrazing, and that is your real issue in herd management. If the horses eat it up, then churn up the roots with their hooves, only buttercups will.survive.
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There’s not much chance of getting a first cut in the PNW before the end of May due to our typical spring weather. Grasses purposely grown for hay here are generally orchard grass or Timothy. Otherwise, it’s pasture mix from the feed store— a mix of orchard and other native type grasses. I won’t feed west side grown local hay— too high NSC and my horses waste it since it varies so badly in mix and quality.
Even if your soil has no standing water, adding horses to it will create mud and pitting. My horses just live in gravel dry lots in winter with some pasture time. If you have big enough fields you can minimize hoof damage.
@[B]Scribbler thanks for the information. I hadn’t thought about it being too wet to even be able to get a decent early hay harvest in. I was sort of jokingly looking into hand sycthing, as the pasture I wanted to use for that purpose isn’t too big. Maybe I should start looking more seriously into that.
I’m trying to work out some cross-fencing and a system of pasture rotation, and getting an early hay harvest off one pasture while grazing them on some of the others seemed like it would be a good way to do that. I was looking for a drought-resistant grass for the same reason – I wanted something that would stay green with minimal irrigation for their summer pasture. I understand that the grass doesn’t actually die in the summer, but I also understand that drought-stressed grass is higher in NSCs, and I don’t want to have to keep them off pasture in the summer (I’m already planning on keeping them off at least December through February, as I don’t want them tearing up wet soil).
Maybe I’ll just have to give up the idea of getting the hay. But hmm, I need to at least be able to get in there to mow it so that it doesn’t get overgrown. Maybe I’ll try to plant a late-maturing grass in there. I’ll also talk to the people that own the land right now. They have one of those big lawn mowers and they mow the whole thing with that, so I’ll ask how early is too early to be mowing.
The whole property seems to be sandy loam and it’s very well drained. There are no rivers in this part of the state (north Kitsap county).[/B]
If you sycth the hay how do you gather it? And if it’s wet out it won’t cure.
I don’t think drought resistant grass stays green. It goes yellow but doesn’t die off. You don’t see green grass in the desert. And nobody in the PNW irrigates their hay fields or pastures.
The only hay irrigation I have seen is alfalfa grown commercially in semi arid conditions. I don’t think anyone irrigates grass anywhere. There is no profit margin for that.
As a small property owner, pasture management is your first concern since haying will be a small part of the equation. You might be best off living with the land for a year and observing closely before making any decisions.
Are your horses metabolically compromised or you just want to grow low NSC hay? Honestly no one in the PNW has really accomplished that.
Unless you need hay crop for agricultural tax purposes, I would manage the fields to maximize grazing for feed in the spring summer fall, and buy good quality tested Timothy from the dry East slopes for winter.
If your horses can live off just pasture no hay for 6 months of the year, say, that’s a huge savings in hay and so good for their health.
Obviously if they are IR they shouldn’t be on grass at all.
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Thanks! (also not sure how my entire earlier response got bolded). My horses do not currently have metabolic issues, but one is an air fern pony who has a slightly cresty neck right now just from living on a weedy pasture with coastal bermuda hay, one is middle aged and gained a whole bunch of weight just recently on that same pasture (OK maybe I have been giving her a LITTLE alfalfa as well), and the other is a fairly easy keeper. I want to keep them all together on the same pastures, and I think the best way to do that would be to try to plant grass that wouldn’t make Air Fern founder, and then supplement the other(s) as needed. I guess you could say that I am thinking preventatively right now. Air Fern does NOT need to be out on rich pasture, at least not for more than a few hours a day, but I do believe in keeping horses on pastures and not in stalls. I don’t like the idea of a grazing muzzle, especially since Air Fern just loves exploring things with his mouth. I will do it if I have no other options, I guess. Maybe I will have to use the sacrifice lot in more than just the winter.
I thought about what you said, just living there for a year and seeing, but I’m not going to be moving there for a couple of years, and I was hoping to figure out the grass situation now, get it planted, and let it be really well rooted before putting the horses on it.
It’s good to know that low-NSC in the PNW isn’t likely to happen. IDK, maybe I will have to let those beautiful pastures get a little weedy so they aren’t so rich.
Don’t let your Air-Fern’s mouthiness discourage you from muzzling. My mouthy horse is also an air-fern, he adapted VERY quickly to the muzzle and quickly learned to insert things into the muzzle hole he wanted to investigate. As a fromer “muzzles are mean” person, I can attest to how great muzzles are for those of us who want air ferns to live on pasture.
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Gig 'em again. They get paid for calling you back. Put a demand on them. 
You can also talk with your local co-op. They do have an interest in selling things but also have an interest in making you a regular customer.
Go luck as you go forward.
G.
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What G said. Keep after them. That is their job. FWIW, many county extension offices run a pretty lean ship due to funding and, in some/many cases, getting financial support from the counties.
Some extension programs like SNAP are ok as they get can often get matching state/fed dollars. Some programs, say 4H, not much county support and usually no state or fed support.
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How much land are you talking about? Enough to hay 5 acres while leaving 3-5 for grazing? What I’ve found living here for 51 years, and keeping horses at home for 40 of them is grass is going to do what it wants here on the wet side. You’d have to spray your existing fields to kill the grass, till it and reseed with your grass choice. Then… do it over and over to maintain your crop purity. They grow most lawn seed in the Willamette valley and to keep native grasses and weeds out they burn the fields each fall after harvest.
I have a Cushings gelding and an air fern Paint on 2.5 acres of pasture. I mow, spray for weeds and lime or fertilize each spring. I limit grazing to 5 hours or so a day to not create laminitis situations with these two. I’ve overseeded with NW pasture mix and now have pretty good grass from April to mid- July but then it goes summer dormant. Rain brings it back in September until November. Otherwise, it’s eastern Oregon hay in my mud free dry lots.
You’d be best served to create gravel dry lots, small pastures and rotate. I’ve never seen irrigated pastures locally though I suppose you could— we don’t have enough water.
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Thanks, this is really useful. It’s 10 acres total, maybe 5-6 in pasture. I’m planning on carving out four smaller pastures and making a dry lot / large arena with a covered feeding area. There is a barn on the property that I will set up as run-in stalls. I was thinking about watering the half an acre to one acre that’s right near the wellhead in the summer. It’s a good well, although I suppose I should try to calculate how much water that would really entail.
My understanding is that the summer dormant grass is high in NSCs, so in the summer I’d either have to irrigate a little or dry lot the horses. That’s why I was hoping to find a grass that could tolerate some drought. Like, if it could tolerate a little dryness, and then I could water it a little, enough to keep it from going dormant.
And thank you to everyone for encouraging me to reach out to the extension agent again. I hate to be a pest, but I will try again. And @Sue B thank you for the comments about the muzzle. Poor Air Fern – wearing the muzzle of shame. I will definitely consider it. Given the choice between being in the dry lot by himself or with the others wearing a muzzle, I bet he’d pick the muzzle.
Keep harassing them. Also, do you have a Water Conversation Office? I got better results from them than the County Extension… in fact when I reached out, they told me to contact the Water Conversation peeps :rolleyes: He came out and we walked around, I had specific questions about a drainage issue (my idea was fine) and he IDed my soil for me, and thumbs-upped my current rotation and answered a question I had about “grandfathering” in my property for my planned use (keep haying it for now until I fence it for pasture).
You say you have about five-six acres clear for pasture? Is the rest wooded then? Does this include around your barn/house and an arena if you plan one? In your situation, honestly… You won’t get hay. You will need about an acre a horse for summer/fall grazing. I have nine total acres. About 1.5 acres is “lawn” around the house and barn, and then a third of an acre behind the barn is turnout for the donkeys full time. I have two horses out right now for ~6-8 hours a day on an acre each, then a flake of hay at night, and they are fat on what they are getting from the pasture but it won’t last past July. Then it’s more about exercise being out until Oct or Nov, at which time they are up for the rest of the year and thru spring, April/May, to keep them from ruining it. My lower five acres is planned for extended grazing (broken into paddocks) in the fall and my arena; I’ll have to keep it mowed in the summer and hope to put it into the rotation mid/late-summer and rest the top paddocks, then put the horses back on the top paddocks in the fall after we start getting rain but before it’s muddy. It might extend my grazing by a month or six weeks.
The way I manage my ponies on pasture is to put them out for a couple of hours in the morning, bring them in to the drylot for the day, and feed hay at night. When the spring grass is at its best, maybe only half an hour. I work at home so it’s pretty easy to do, but if you start early enough it will work for a commuter also. I don’t put them out if there’s been a freeze overnight. I watch their weight carefully and if they haven’t been on the grass I’m very stingy with their time on it. Having hay is really nice for the days when I can’t put them out.
I can’t contribute much to this conversation, but can add that I live in north kitsap (as we’ve chatted about) and if you want to avoid mud/pasture damage you’re looking at keeping horses off of pastures more like October - late May/early June. This has been a super bizarre (dry) year and was the first year in my 15 years on this farm that I was able to start turning horses out on my spring/summer pasture in early May.
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^ Ditto, I was able to put out in April and had to mow paddocks once and they need it again like now. I suspect it will shrivel and die by end of July based on farmer’s almanac.
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Yikes. Yikes. And Yikes. October - May? OK, well, good to know to be prepared. I was thinking October / November - March / April. I wonder if I could maybe put them out for one or two hours a day in March and April? It will be three horses on five-six acres (not counting the dry lot and “lawn” area of the house, and I do think I will be using that lawn area for them sometimes), rotating pastures, and they are small and barefoot. Maybe I will try it and see. It’s a little depressing – I was so happy to get this beautiful 10-acre property, just imagining my horses being out there, and now it seems like I won’t be able to use it as much as I had hoped, between founder concerns and pasture concerns. I guess I can still enjoy looking at it…
You will really need to see how your land behaves over the course of a year. I know pastures where horses live out all year, and only get roundbales when it snows, and do just fine (fat but no founder). Other pastures where the grass dies off in August, and other pastures where there is mud all winter. All within 20 miles of each other.
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