Patience Pole

[TrueColours]

I sent a 2 year old TB colt many years ago to a WP trainer to be backed, and as part of his training sessions, he was tied to one of the large beams in the indoor arena, on rubber mats, while the trainer worked other horses all around him. He was attached by a thick cotton rope that threaded through his halter to a large, flat, thick, padded neck guard/surcingle so if he pulled back, that would take the pressure and not the halter

I guess the first session was spent trying to dig to China and move the arena a few feet :lol: and he soon found out that wasnt going to work too well

From that point onwards, for 2 hours before being worked and for 2 hours afterwards, he stood tied there while the other horses were being worked and in short order, he learned that snoozing and getting some “zzz’s” was the best solution when being tied

I loved working with this trainer and he also mentioned that when he and his wife met up with some of their “English” friends at shows, and wanted to go for a coffee or lunch, the English people had to go and find a groom to hold the horse while they left, or to “watch” the horse if it was left in the trailer. And he said go to a Western show, and even the yearlings will all stand quietly tied in a row to the trailer, and will sleep until someone comes to get them because they have learned that is what they are expected to do

[spotmenow]

I have a patience tree here for my own horses-certainly would never tie a boarder’s horse to it and don’t recommend they do either because they have no idea how to tie a proper knot. I use it primarily for my young, 17 hand draft cross gelding and never leave him for more than an hour or two while I’m working around the farm. I also make sure the perimeter gates are closed.

The only boarder who has ever made a comment about it is my boarder who clicker trains and STILL to this day cannot get her 19 year old mare to load on a trailer or walk quietly along a trail. I’ll defend my patience tree any day against her practice of shoving handfuls of treats at her horse while the horse is walking over the top of her AWAY from the trailer.

[caballus]

[QUOTE=mp;4604549]
I think you should install a parking meter. Boarders would put in a quarter for every 15 minutes, up to 2 hours, for how long they plan to leave their horses tied. Owners get a ticket for any horses left tied on an expired meter. And if you leave your horse there for more than 2 hours, he’d be towed away.

Sorry, I just couldn’t resist. :lol:

Seriously, if you believe your fellow boarders will need a set of rules for this thing, you’d probably be better off not doing it.[/QUOTE] I like the suggestion of the parking meter! and I agree - if you have to set up rules as to how long boarders are allowed to tie up their horses then perhaps its not such a good idea.

[Guilherme]

Our Rule of Tieing: You tie the horse eye high, arms length, with and to something that won’t break.

Some folks use a “snubbing post.” Some use a tree. Some use a sturdy barn support. Whatever is sturdy enough to take the “gaff” of a horse fighting its rope will work.

We also generally use a rubber “donut” as it eases strain on the horse’s body and the equipment in use.

Time limit? We don’t need no stinking time limit!!!

The horse stays until we’re satisfied it has learned the lesson to be taught.

[Guilherme]

Our Rule of Tieing: You tie the horse eye high, arms length, with and to something that won’t break.

Some folks use a “snubbing post.” Some use a tree. Some use a sturdy barn support. Whatever is sturdy enough to take the “gaff” of a horse fighting its rope will work.

We also generally use a rubber “donut” as it eases strain on the horse’s body and the equipment in use.

Time limit? We don’t need no stinking time limit!!!

The horse stays until we’re satisfied it has learned the lesson to be taught.

There is some “training transfer” of this lesson in that the horse has learned, at least once, to submit to an external “authority” (the lead rope). One submission can lead to another.

The cavalry used a number of restraint systems during its existence. The “picket line” was one of them. It’s well depicted in the excellent flick “The Lighthorsemen.” (If you’ve not seen that film, get it; lots of action for the guys and a nice romance for the chicks ). As noted in many areas where folks camp overnight the picket line is the only viable restraint system available.

We’ve got a “set back mare” who was trained to do so by a prior owner who steeped herself in nonsense and tied the horse with hay strings. Now, when she’s tired of being in one spot, she’ll set back until she breaks free. The hay strings taught her that if she uses enough force she can free herself. We use a very heavy duty rubber bungee on her in the barn and a “donut” when we tie her to the trailer. The behavior has greatly lessened, but has not gone away. It is an annoyance to all around.

As also noted, all restraint systems for horses have risks. But the benefit of standing quietly tied is well worth the risks that it might take to get there.

G.

[katarine]

Bring me that precious pony who digs a hole to China. My home office overlooks my barn yard. I’ll tie her to a nice highline that’s a good 10’ off the ground, with a lead rope hanging from it, and snap that good heavy lead rope to a nice stout rope halter. She’ll stand on good ground, with enough slack to get her nose to the point of her shoulder, and ample room to twist and wiggle.

She will go on that line at 9AM and she’ll come off when she’s finally decided to cock her hip and nap. I’ll keep an eye on her, but she won’t know it, as I’m out of sight. I’ll go to the barn and ignore her, not even look at her, so far as she knows. If she starts wallowing and begging for attention,she’ll stay longer. I might scratch a hip as I walk past but I won’t stop and coddle her. Again, when she realizes it’s not, in fact, all about her, and she’s resting again, I’ll quietly turn her loose and maybe turn her out after offering her an apple or scritches or both.

My favorite was a TB/QH cross who hated getting rained on. I didn’t have a high line, but a solid walled roundpen that was about 8’ tall, with telephone pole posts. I’d worked him, watered him, and stuck him on a pole while I went in the house for lunch. It came a summer storm and there he stood getting hammered by the rain. He flopped, he laid down- with his face smashed up against the RP wall, LOL, he wallowed- nevermind he couldn’t do anything comfortable except turn his butt to it and suck it up, which he finally did.

His owners, when I sent him home, were so pleased with how mannerly and calm he was. They proceeded to remove all that with sugar and sweetness and no rules and nothing that might upset him. Too bad. He was a really nice colt.

[Tamara_in_TN]

[QUOTE=MoonPie730;4600953]

It seems that some boarders feel that a patience pole is inhumane and horses should not be expected to stand past 2 hours?? :eek: How should these concerns be addressed?[/QUOTE]

I have inner tubes from my tractor tires on the main timbers of my aisle and in the case of any overly stinky critters (which is rare as we are not into “outside” horses) I have a smooth wall facing the horse below the inner tube…

as for the inhumane part…well unless you have one chief in charge of the place who has final say you have a chance for mis-use and abuse of the snubbing pole/wall/whatever

some dillweed will decide that 4 hours in 100 degree sun will be just fine, while another will fret and moan and wring their hands the whole time anyone uses it for anything…

sounds like a drama waiting to happen

Tamara in TN

[MoonPie730]

[QUOTE=caballus;4605463]
I like the suggestion of the parking meter! and I agree - if you have to set up rules as to how long boarders are allowed to tie up their horses then perhaps its not such a good idea.[/QUOTE]

I don’t think we need rules. I think everybody is competent when it comes to tying and knows how to attend to their horse. Other boarders in the barn who think that this is inhumane to expect a horse to tie for 2+ hours think that there needs to be rules. I wanted to see what you guys think.

[katarine]

[QUOTE=MoonPie730;4606349]
I don’t think we need rules. I think everybody is competent when it comes to tying and knows how to attend to their horse. Other boarders in the barn who think that this is inhumane to expect a horse to tie for 2+ hours think that there needs to be rules. I wanted to see what you guys think.[/QUOTE]

here’s a rule- they can mind their own business.

[Gry2Yng]

[QUOTE=katarine;4606644]
here’s a rule- they can mind their own business.[/QUOTE]

This is the United States of America, we are endowed with the right to interfere in the training of our barnmates horses and when they won’t listen, we have the inalienable right to petition the barn owner to make a rule about it. Which said BO does, just to get the endowed to shut up, cause the person minding their own business and quietly training their horse rarely complains to the barn owner.

[potteryshop]

I agree that this is a valuable and important part of a horse’s training BUT I will add that a friend of mine had a stubborn, willful, and strong stallion (which she had no good reason to own) who she sent off for manners. He fought, reared and broke his neck while tied in a round pen.
It seems like some steps were left out there. Perhaps a good reminder that one should not wait until you have a mature horse to teach manners.

[BaroquePony]

Posted by potteryshop:

It seems like some steps were left out there. Perhaps a good reminder that one should not wait until you have a mature horse to teach manners.

This is absolutley one of the biggest problems I see.

[Foxtrot_s]

So the cowboys were inside having a beer, with their horses standing quietly outside, patiently ground-tied. Wow, we said, impressed, how long did it take you to train them to do that? “About two years” came back the reply.

[stoicfish]

Many people use tying as a training technique in my area. Oddly enough, you do not see that many wrecks.
It is not my experience that horses do not reason or learn. Well, not smart horses anyway. I have a Trak that I play chess with Seriously most horses have the ability to learn to deal with their environment, historically if they couldn’t they would be a Darwin victim. I think some horses throw fits if things do not go according to their plan but that is a scary horse to ride. I believe that is what several posters mean about ridability. The horse learns through tying that throwing a fit will not change the outcome, that they have a job to do.

[MoonPie730]

[QUOTE=katarine;4606644]
here’s a rule- they can mind their own business.[/QUOTE]

I totally agree. 100%.

What do you guys think of the safety of a tying post like a patience pole versus a tie rail?

[LostFarmer]

I had a horse brought to me that was a problem child. He had learned that he was big enough to break anything that restrained him. A big stout 18h draft horse. After 4 halters of all kinds and broken leads I got pissed. He was either going to conform or be dead and at that point I didn’t much care which.

My solution. I made up a halter out of small cable and cable clamps. It was not going to break. The lead was a chain and the post a steel buried in concrete with a hub on the top. It was built to reform this stinking B@$#@D. I clipped him in and walked away. It took about 15 minutes before he did his sit back and break stuff routine. He tried, and tried, and tried some more. I will give him and A+ on the determination game. In the end he lost. He found out there was something bigger and stronger than he was. He was never able to be tied in a strap type halter or he would break it. But a twine string halter and he would stand like a rock.

Was this abuse? No this was a rescue. I saved him from a French dinner party by giving him some manners. LF

[BaroquePony]

Posted by MoonPie730:

What do you guys think of the safety of a tying post like a patience pole versus a tie rail?

The whole point of using a single TALL post or pole (or tree) is that there is absolutely nothing the horse can crawl under or try to jump over (and get hung up half way over). All they can do is go around in circles. If they wrap themselves around the post … they can just stand there until they decide to back up and begin to unwrap themselves.

Personally I do not like thin posts/poles, steel posts or anything that is not round (like a wooden 8 X 8). Anything thin or made of steel or with distinct edges (like an 8 X 8) is not “forgiving” like a fat round wooden post. If the horse pulls back and then decides to leap forward he can cut himself much more easily or possibly chip a joint bone like in the knee (think boney protrusion hitting thin steel pole) on something thin or with an edge.

[Gry2Yng]

[QUOTE=LostFarmer;4607651]

Was this abuse? No this was a rescue. I saved him from a French dinner party by giving him some manners. LF[/QUOTE]

Yes, you did. Good for you.

[spotmenow]

[QUOTE=LostFarmer;4607651]
Was this abuse? No this was a rescue. I saved him from a French dinner party by giving him some manners. LF[/QUOTE]

:lol: You’re right. It amazes me what some people think of abusive and others don’t…my trainer just had to go pick a pony up from a sale barn that had been there only 3 days and had severe sores on his sides and dried blood all over his mouth-two rides. The trainer who put the two “rides” on the pony thought nothing of it…

[MoonPie730]

[QUOTE=BaroquePony;4607724]
The whole point of using a single TALL post or pole (or tree) is that there is absolutely nothing the horse can crawl under or try to jump over (and get hung up half way over). All they can do is go around in circles. If they wrap themselves around the post … they can just stand there until they decide to back up and begin to unwrap themselves.

Personally I do not like thin posts/poles, steel posts or anything that is not round (like a wooden 8 X 8). Anything thin or made of steel or with distinct edges (like an 8 X 8) is not “forgiving” like a fat round wooden post. If the horse pulls back and then decides to leap forward he can cut himself much more easily or possibly chip a joint bone like in the knee (think boney protrusion hitting thin steel pole) on something thin or with an edge.[/QUOTE]

Awesome, thanks for the great info! OKay and yeah that’s kind of what I thought about getting a fixed tie versus one that rotates with them. It’s their problem and if they get wrapped up then they learn to walk back around.