Patience Pole

[matryoshka]

I thought about installing one in my round pen when I had it built but decided against it. I’d had a bad experience teaching a youngster to tie and was frankly scared to teach them. A snubbing post would have worked just fine (the horse that scared me would have injured himself had I not been there, but then again, he wouldn’t have had a chance to injure himself if I had done it properly in the first place). Anyway, the snubbing post should present less of a chance for a horse to injure himself. The accident I’m referring to did not involve a snubbing post, but it is why I thought of installing one. Sheesh, I can’t seem to say what I mean tonight.

I do have a tree I tie horses who arrive with no respect for tying. They get tied above wither height (actually, above head height) with an unbreakable lead that hangs about 6" off the ground when slack. So far, nobody has gotten hurt and seasoned halter-breakers have learned to tie for however long I want them to.

If your barn installs a “patience pole,” perhaps there should be a training session for those interested in using so they know how to tie a horse safely. A little bit of knowledge can prevent a whole lot of injury. Ask me how I know.

[caballus]

I haven’t read all the threads but I am curious – does anyone teach the horse to yield to pressure BEFORE teaching him to tie?

[Sithly]

[QUOTE=caballus;4610822]
I haven’t read all the threads but I am curious – does anyone teach the horse to yield to pressure BEFORE teaching him to tie?[/QUOTE]

Uh, yeah. Most people mentioned that.

[Renae]

[QUOTE=Ltc4h;4601233]
First we must assume that horses can reason-they can’t.
To me I would leave said barn if they started employing those options.
It is an unnecessary short cut to any decent training regimen.
And yes as OP stated it can be hard to watch.
IMO hard to watch is something done incorrectly.
Have a barn full of horses different ages/breeds/sizes and disciplines, all can be trusted to ground tie where ever @ home, horse show, trail ride, it doesn’t matter.
And don’t have a roundpen or pole.[/QUOTE]

Same here and completely agree.

[BaroquePony]

Posted by caballus:

does anyone teach the horse to yield to pressure BEFORE teaching him to tie?

I can’t speak for anyone else, but yes, I do.

In the case of most horse farm bred horses teaching them to give to pressure works easily. With bratty ones, it depends on how bratty and why they have become bratty. With the unhandled range horse the only way you can get leverage sometimes is to use the snubbing post or a tree as part of teaching them to give to pressure … otherwise, if they are scared or startled they will just drag you through the bushes into the next county (if you persist in hanging on to the rope).

I use the snubbing post for certain situations/problems (teaching a reasonable horse that already gives to pressure to tie for extended time periods, halter breakers, super bratty ones that won’t do a damn thing they are asked, or regular brats that won’t stand tied without throwing a fit) or unhandled horses (off the range).

I lived in one place with my thoroughbred where he had a 100 acre pasture that I rented a small house on, and one winter we had unseasonabley cold freezing heavy snow stuff. A wild ass showed up, and a wild shetland pony stud showed up (both had been born out on the range) … they were crawling under the fence to steal my horse’s food. Wwweeeellll, it sure was handy to know how to use a rope and a snubbing post (in this case it was a tree).

[BaroquePony]

Posted by Renae:

[QUOTE]Quote:
Originally Posted by Ltc4h
First we must assume that horses can reason-they can’t.
To me I would leave said barn if they started employing those options.
It is an unnecessary short cut to any decent training regimen.
And yes as OP stated it can be hard to watch.
IMO hard to watch is something done incorrectly.
Have a barn full of horses different ages/breeds/sizes and disciplines, all can be trusted to ground tie where ever @ home, horse show, trail ride, it doesn’t matter.
And don’t have a roundpen or pole.

Same here and completely agree. [/QUOTE]

Please, tell us how you do all of this with horses that have been ruined by people who do not use “a decent traing regime”. Or do you think those horses that haven’t been in your perfect program and have fallen into the hands of less competent owners should just be euthanized?

These would be horses that bite, kick, lunge, charge, break their halters, are extremely pushy (slam you into the wall) and generally are OUT OF CONTROL. They don’t like humans (and in most of these types of cases, the horse is justified in his reasoning). They have no desire to ‘ground tie’.

If you think horses cannot reason, than what does that say about the humans that trained theses monsters?

[Sithly]

It is an unnecessary short cut to any decent training regimen.

Interesting viewpoint.

On the other hand, it seems to me there’s a big hole in your training program if your horses won’t stand tied. I don’t see why a person would want to come up with all sorts of gyrations to avoid simply tying the horse.

Last time a tying discussion came up, someone posted the saying, “Trust in Allah, but tie your camel.” :lol: Words to live by.

[mbm]

have an of you seen a horse seriously injure itself by pulling back while tied to something non breakable while wearing a non breakable halter?

[Sithly]

[QUOTE=mbm;4611081]
have an of you seen a horse seriously injure itself by pulling back while tied to something non breakable while wearing a non breakable halter?[/QUOTE]

Have you seen a horse seriously injure itself running loose after breaking a breakaway halter and heading for the hills? I have.

[mbm]

??

I was asking a serious question… not sure how your answer applies?

[Carol_Ames]

Excellent advice

Baroque Pony gives excellent advice to avoid injury; but, why would one be needed? if horses do not stand tied, why not?Is it the reaction to pull back when they feel pressure:eek:?; fear of things moving behind :eek:them? or, another problem;)?

[OverandOnward]

This will accomplish a great deal. Gently. Without large poles and cement, should that not be do-able or convenient.

Especially check out video #5, a horse that is already a pull-back.

[LostFarmer]

@caballus;4610822

I haven’t read all the threads but I am curious – does anyone teach the horse to yield to pressure BEFORE teaching him to tie?

I am breaking a horse to drive right now that was roped as a long yearling and gelded. He was then never handled again he showed up at my place in a stock trailer loose. First item of business was to run him down the cattle ally and get a halter on him with a 10 foot lead attached. I then turned him loose in a round pen to think about life. About the second or third time of stepping on the lead he learned to yield. A week later he was tied to a post of patience. He did that twice for a few hours and then I harnessed him and tied him for 30 minutes to 5 hours. It has been 6 weeks now and he is driving. I have found with most training of untouched horses that the first and last step it to get started and stay at it. Maybe I am a risk taker but I would rather a horse die getting broke and learning manners than have some one in the ER and a horse in the kill pen because they didn’t. LF

[Sithly]

[QUOTE=mbm;4611117]
??

I was asking a serious question… not sure how your answer applies?[/QUOTE]

Oh, you were serious? :lol: Didn’t realize you were taking an informal survey.

Well in that case, no. I take steps to mitigate the risk as much as possible. Not that an injury couldn’t happen, but the risk is small when things are done properly.

[LostFarmer]

@OverandOnward;4611138

This will accomplish a great deal. Gently. Without large poles and cement, should that not be do-able or convenient.

Especially check out video #5, a horse that is already a pull-back.

Never fear you can always pay a trainer and a gimmick inventor to solve you lack of training. LF

[BaroquePony]

have an of you seen a horse seriously injure itself by pulling back while tied to something non breakable while wearing a non breakable halter?

I have only heard about situations like this and I hope I do not ever witness such an accident.

We had one two year old sit back on a set of cross-ties in the wash-down and severe the main artery (or vein) at the poll and bleed out within minutes. I was not at the barn when that happened (aunt’s barn).

That is one reason to take things slowly and not tie hard and fast, but use the leverage that you can get with a long rope around a post. Then you can let it slip if you see a serious temper tantrum happening. Use your common sense.

I also like to let a horse walk around with a good stout lead rope dragging on the ground. Sure, they panic the first time they step on the lead, but they learn quickly to stop and give and figure out which foot they are standing on the lead with and then they will back up or pick their foot up. It is excellent training.

I also like to use the 1" thick cotton rope and make a “scotch hobble”. Once again, it is excellent training. If you are ever in an accident or get tangled in some serious vines riding in the woods or even get tangled in a jump, “rope training” can save your horse’s life.

I definatetly think that each horse needs to be handled as an individual and they should not just be tied up to a solid post and left to their own devices. It takes some common sense.

The more experience a horse has with being tied, the more reliable they will be in any kind of emergency.

[Sithly]

[QUOTE=LostFarmer;4611149]
Never fear you can always pay a trainer and a gimmick inventor to solve you lack of training. LF[/QUOTE]

I wouldn’t say that. The blocker and devices like it are just as much “training” as snubbing a horse up and walking away. Different tool for the job, but not superior or inferior.

[hollynanne]

Good discussion! I like reading both sides of this coin…

A quick story about why to use a cotton rope… (other than the obvious “It hurts”)

My husband had found his dream horse at auction… A large Paint/Perch who was 16 hands (not feet!) and 1450# (according to the scale at the vet school, where we got shoes). That horse would stand tied for days (okay, not days, but the “tie and immediately go to sleep” routine).

One day some invisible monster got the best of poor Mickey, who was prone to having the marbles in his head roll the wrong way and freak out at nothing. He spooked at our tie-rail. My husband was schooling my filly. Mickey was tied with a draft size nylon halter and nylon lead (the generic feed and tack store combo).

He MELTED the rope to itself!! No kidding. I was taught (by my smart, but crabby hubby) to ALWAYS carry a knife in your back pocket. I cut the rope and thankfully he ran to his “sister” (the filly my husband was working in the arena). He didn’t run for the county road or 6 counties over, like I was thinking he was going to do.

The knot was a glob of melted plastic. That quick-release knot was never coming out (it wasn’t even a knot anymore).

Lesson learned that day!

[BaroquePony]

Posted by mbm:

have an of you seen a horse seriously injure itself by pulling back while tied to something non breakable while wearing a non breakable halter?

I have seen horses put into this type of situation by inexperienced owner/trainers. They wre lucky they didn’y kill their horse or permanently injure it. They took a barely halter broke horse and tied it solid to a heavy post or fence and then stepped back and watched the horse panic when it realized it was tied. These were not horses that had had a lot of training in giving to pressure, although they had had some … just not enough.

[mbm]

[QUOTE=LostFarmer;4611149]
Never fear you can always pay a trainer and a gimmick inventor to solve you lack of training. LF[/QUOTE]

you would rather tie a horse to a solid object with a solid halter and let it flip out and possibly do tremendous damage to itself instead of using a “gimmick” (blocker tie) that might allow the horse the time to learn that pressure is not evil and that it doesn’t have to panic if pressure touches it poll?

see i have one of those horses that learned that fighting being tied = huge pain and panic. luckily she ground ties and will stand if i loop the rope around something…

but the only thing that is working is letting her know that if she hits the end of the rope it wont end in disaster.

i guess i just think differently about how a horse learns and what i want it to learn and why.

and yeah, i was the dumb ass that let my mare learn how to fear being tied… and i got to watch her fight and fight - she was sore for days afterwards… and i honestly thanks my lucky stars she didn’t damage her neck. but - i do have to deal with the aftermath.

and once again i learn to think before i do something and really think about the ramifications. what am i actually teaching my horse?