Thank you all who responded. I agree with everyone. I think especially since this happened long ago and there are many new people in the horse show world who do not know about the ugly actions of the horse killers posts like the OP’s, whether started as trolling or not, need to be answered as they were, so we can point them to the places where they can read about what happened and hopefully they will make the right decision about whether or not to continue to associate with murderers. And hopefully those murderers will also be reminded that we horse people remember and do not forgive (how can we?). the people who get caught are always sorry after they are caught.
Not a MISTAKE!! It was planned, paid for with a check made out to cash and pre-meditated. A mistake is when one is confused or incorrect in a thought, he knew EXACTLY what he was doing.
He had, the very thing that he makes his living with, killed. For no reason other than greed.
You know I don’t care how good people think he is, it is not our abilities that show what we truly are but our choices. His choice to do that illustrates exactly what he is. He isn’t the only game in town - he isn’t the best, there are many, many more trainers out there with a moral compass that works. Really there are. Who are more talented teachers, trainers and riders. His CHOICE to have that horse killed shows you what he is made of. Doesn’t matter how talented people think he is, he CHOSE the wrong path. It disgusts me that a person could ever think that was the right thing to do or that it wouldn’t matter. People who condone or support him in this business also disgust me. There is no way to make it right, EVER.
If you think, for one second, that this was the ONLY wrong action he ever made, think again. That action was probably only the tip of the iceburg. One doesn’t go that far off track without making many more immoral and illegal choices prior to it. Just like serial killers don’t start out by murdering humans, they start small and work their way up.
So did Amy Tryon and we’re sending her to the Olympics!
But not to get too sidetracked -
I can understand how this was posed as a legitimate question, not to troll. PV has an amazing reputation for his training and coaching skills, and has had incredible success in the show ring. Many people trust their horses with him, he runs a very successful business.
I don’t think anyone disputes that his involvement in the horse killing “scandal” was terrible, horrible, awful. He was found guilty of insurance fraud and sentenced. He served his time.
From what I have heard, he is now apparently trying very hard to make amends, to move forward and make what is left of his life as generous and productive as possible.
There will be people who will never forgive someone for a wrong. There will be others who will choose to recognize that the sentence he served and guilt he will always have to live with are perhaps not enough punishment, but all he will receive - and move on.
If you choose to train with him, then you are one of the ones that “moves on” and enjoys the benefits of his talent and skills. It’s probably best to be aware of his past. Would I worry about the safety and well being of my horse under his care? No. Donkeyman made some excellent points. There are a lot of unscrupulous people in this industry, this sport, this world. PV, at this point, is the least of my worries.
AT did not intentionally kill a horse.
What is the problem with him??!!?? You said it yourself, he had a horse electrocuted for the insurance money. :mad: A more amazing issue (and one that shows a lack of ethics, morals, principles, and the difference between right and wrong) is that you don’t see that as a problem.
I was sputtering in sheer disbelief that anyone could twist reality in such a way as to compare the two.
What planet do some of these people live on 
You make me sick.
This whole thread has fascinated me…
Elite - you are 16 years old. I’m sorry, but that is plenty old enough to use the brain God gave you and make decisions that can affect your life and who you are.
Do you have morals? Really? Probably not, because if your parents know the story behind PV and still allow you to ride with him, then they probably have no morals - so where would you have gotten any?
I cannot believe there is a 16 year old kid out there in this world that would excuse someone who orchestrated the MURDER of a HORSE!!! Most “kids” would believe that this man should rot in a jail cell forever, if not be put to death himself. I’m an adult and I have a tendency to prehistorically believe in “eye for an eye”, especially in this situation - electrocute him and see how he fairs…
Do you even realize that statistically, people who think it is permissable to kill animals are more likely to murder a human??? Forget what he might do to your horse…
But I digress… Sadly, this young rider has been raised to believe that whatever you have to do to become “financially stable” (or generally make more money) is ok AND that whoever you must align yourself with and whatever you have to do to get the almightly BLUE RIBBON is just peachy.
If that man offered me a job riding the nicest young hunters you could imagine, and agreed to help me break into Grand Prix, I would spit in his face - NOT welcome the chance of a lifetime.
So child, for your sake, I hope you wake up and realize what your comments say about you as a person, and that you have an epiphany that this is NOT the kind of person you want to grow up to be.
There are many trainers as and more talented than PV who can help youget where you want to go in an ethical way - and can teach you about being a good horseman at the same time.
Find one.
[QUOTE=spina;2659882]
So did Amy Tryon and we’re sending her to the Olympics!
But not to get too sidetracked -
I can understand how this was posed as a legitimate question, not to troll. PV has an amazing reputation for his training and coaching skills, and has had incredible success in the show ring. Many people trust their horses with him, he runs a very successful business.
I don’t think anyone disputes that his involvement in the horse killing “scandal” was terrible, horrible, awful. He was found guilty of insurance fraud and sentenced. He served his time.
From what I have heard, he is now apparently trying very hard to make amends, to move forward and make what is left of his life as generous and productive as possible.
There will be people who will never forgive someone for a wrong. There will be others who will choose to recognize that the sentence he served and guilt he will always have to live with are perhaps not enough punishment, but all he will receive - and move on.
If you choose to train with him, then you are one of the ones that “moves on” and enjoys the benefits of his talent and skills. It’s probably best to be aware of his past. Would I worry about the safety and well being of my horse under his care? No. Donkeyman made some excellent points. There are a lot of unscrupulous people in this industry, this sport, this world. PV, at this point, is the least of my worries.[/QUOTE]
Seroiously? SERIOUSLY?? You have the gall to compare AT and PV??? He had a horse KILLED for the MONEY! She made a tragic error in judgement that resulted in a horse’s death. Both have and will pay for their actions. AT suffered emotionally. Do you think PV spent one moment lamenting his horse?? No. Only the fact that he got CAUGHT!!!
And I couldn’t give a rat’s pattootie if he is “trying to make amends”! He’s trying to cover his @$$ so he can make more money. I’m sure there are many BNTs in this world who have done unsovory things… and if I knew about them, I might not work with them either. But I’m sure as hell not working with him.
He should find another line of work. Sorry. There is no room for this sort of person in this business. There is enough lesser garbage to deal with. He will never receive enough punishment. He should move on not us. He is not that talented and is not a horseman and there is nothing anyone can ever say or conjure up to make this right or make him clean and whole again in this world. If he had a conscience he would be wholly and deeply ashamed and never show his face in this world again. However, he doesn’t, which he proves by continuing to think he is useful and putting out feelers to check the tides of sentiment. Everyone who remembers what happened will be dead before this is gone from the collective memory. I don’t think he will live long enough to see that day.
While these threads always turn into somewhat of a trainwreck, I am always, personally, relieved to find that the majority of people (who post here anyway) are still disgusted and sickened by these crimes and do not hesitate to say so.
In a society where is seems to be coming more and more acceptable to do ‘whatever’ to be successful, get ahead, make more money, win a ribbon at a horse show :rolleyes: it is good to hear people speak up in outrage.
Just when I start to wonder if most people will condone anything to further their own agenda…one of these threads appears…thanks, Elite.
[QUOTE=GreystoneKC;2659928]
Seroiously? SERIOUSLY?? You have the gall to compare AT and PV??? …She made a tragic error in judgement that resulted in a horse’s death. Both have and will pay for their actions. [/QUOTE]
with all due respect, Greystone, call it “gall” if you will, but there are a lot of people who disagree about it being “an error in judgement”.
And as for paying for her actions, no, I don’t believe she has even begun.
I would be way to embarassed to admit I trained with PV on a BB :lol: I wouldn’t even be able to look at myself in a mirror, full of shame that I’m handing over money to a horse killer.
He may have the skills to train with, but honestly, your slumming it Elite.
Truly slumming it.
Get out of the gutter and go ride with someone who you could be proud to train with.
But that wasn’t her fault!
Ok, I’m going back to Off Course now, and stepping far FAR away from this one…
[QUOTE=jetsmom;2659789]
Elite- One thing to consider is that when you are taking lessons from someone, (and especially jumping), you need to always believe that the trainer will keep your safety and your horse’s well being in mind. IE they will never ask you to do something that is dangerous or will harm your horse.
So, for example, say my horse landed a little funny from a jump and looked a little off, I would rely on my trainer to tell me, “Hey…he looks a little off. Take him back to the barn, and cold hose and if he isn’t better by “x” we’ll get the vet out.” I would expect my trainer to not ask me to continue jumping him and risk serious injury to him.
PV has already proven that he does not care about the welfare of a horse and will do things that are dangerous/deadly to horses.
Not someone that I would want to take lessons from no matter how good they are at teaching riding (note that I intentionally did not say horsemanship.)[/QUOTE]
Very well said. I need to trust my trainer’s top concerns are 1) my safety and 2) my horse’s well being.
I couldn’t trust PV to put my horse’s long term soundness and health above a quest for ribbons and points this year.
I think the comparison between AT and PV is a good one for this thread actually. AT made a MISTAKE. PV did not. AT, whom I personally think made a horrible judgement call in deciding to keep going, but she did not commit a premeditated act against her horse. PV did. Would I send either of them a horse of mine? Right now, no. In the future I would consider AT as a trainer or rider, but never in a million years would I send any animal or child to PV’s care.
If he was a player in another sport, and had bet against it, he would be banned for life from anything to do with that sport. He CAN prove he has reformed. The FIRST step is to show remorse, and showing that he CARES about the sport. That would be by leaving the sport, and getting a job at Walmart or McDonalds - ANY job that has NOTHING to do with horses. As long as he continues to try to sneak around the intent of the rule, he has proven he is NO different a person than the day he killed that horse.
Like attracts like.
[quote=Seal Harbor;2659881]It disgusts me that a person could ever think that was the right thing to do or that it wouldn’t matter. People who condone or support him in this business also disgust me. There is no way to make it right, EVER.
[/quote]
THANK-YOU!
“If you think, for one second, that this was the ONLY wrong action he ever made, think again. That action was probably only the tip of the iceburg. One doesn’t go that far off track without making many more immoral and illegal choices prior to it. Just like serial killers don’t start out by murdering humans, they start small and work their way up.”
So how many of you are supporting trainers who went halfway there or 3/4 of the way there, just didn’t take that final step?
If you, OP, are 16, then I can understand somewhat why you think the way you do. You have no knowledge of the crime, it happened a long time ago, the services he is providing you right now are your only knowledge of the man.
There are reasons in society why people are shunned as PV is. He broke a cardinal rule and violated our collective trust the day he made a decision, in cold blood, to solve his “financial problems” not just by having a horse killed - hell, he could have shipped it off to slaughter or euthanized it to the same end, would that have troubled you? but to have it killed and commit insurance fraud in doing so. Insurance fraud is a felony, clearly against the law, and felony prison time is not some giant penance you do and then everything is done and you start over with a clean slate. You lose rights as a citizen. The right to own a firearm, the right to vote, the right to hold office, the right to certain types of employment. The right to be trusted and respected by the rest of us.
He was selfish, he was greedy, he thought he could get away with it, so he had his horse killed, then lied to obtain money. Why should I or any other responsible horse owner trust him again? Much less support him!
Come back here in ten years after you have personally experienced having your trust violated, and explain to us then why what he did is no big deal.
It’s a character issue, not a “mistake”.
[QUOTE=jetsmom;2659789]
Elite- One thing to consider is that when you are taking lessons from someone, (and especially jumping), you need to always believe that the trainer will keep your safety and your horse’s well being in mind. IE they will never ask you to do something that is dangerous or will harm your horse.
So, for example, say my horse landed a little funny from a jump and looked a little off, I would rely on my trainer to tell me, “Hey…he looks a little off. Take him back to the barn, and cold hose and if he isn’t better by “x” we’ll get the vet out.” I would expect my trainer to not ask me to continue jumping him and risk serious injury to him.
PV has already proven that he does not care about the welfare of a horse and will do things that are dangerous/deadly to horses.
Not someone that I would want to take lessons from no matter how good they are at teaching riding (note that I intentionally did not say horsemanship.)[/QUOTE]
OK- i took weekly lessons with PV this summer- mind ridng improved drastically- its amazing- my trainer at home is like- WOW
but here’s my point, my friend came with me as well to lessons, she was on her horse, and he looked a little off, PV made her get off- he felt his legs, then told her to go cold hose him - called the vet and had him there the next day to get the horse checked out
i wasn’t going to say anything about this topic, but now that i have, ill say this,i find PV to be the best trainer i’ve ever ridden with, as well as one of the nicest- everyone has to be forgiven- im a forgive and forget person, its been 23 years- its time to stop fixating on this
