Paul valliere

[Jaegermonster]

[QUOTE=donkeyman;2659545]
Yeah like being 16 and scared to death of being killed and being a poor kid that had to beg for someone to give me a horse job so I could ride and you think I should have reported it…not a shot in hell. Big of you to think I would know that at 16 years old…If you read what I wrote I didn’t relate death to the event until the killing issues came up THREE years later

So you think I would get anyone to listen to say hey, three years ago I saw blah blah blah…come on, give me a break AND COME DOWN OFF YOUR PEDESTAL…[/QUOTE]

I’m hardly on a pedestal, get over yourself. I was the “working slave” when I was 16 too, just so I could ride. But I would never have let something like that happen to me and not say anything.

And the actual incident with the horse not withstanding (which is bad enough on it’s own), any adult that is going to grab a kid by the throat and slam them against the wall then threaten them with bodily harm deserves to be reported. To your parents, and then to the police.

[Jaegermonster]

[QUOTE=LovesIt;2660054]
OK- i took weekly lessons with PV this summer- mind ridng improved drastically- its amazing- my trainer at home is like- WOW

but here’s my point, my friend came with me as well to lessons, she was on her horse, and he looked a little off, PV made her get off- he felt his legs, then told her to go cold hose him - called the vet and had him there the next day to get the horse checked out

i wasn’t going to say anything about this topic, but now that i have, ill say this,i find PV to be the best trainer i’ve ever ridden with, as well as one of the nicest- everyone has to be forgiven- im a forgive and forget person, its been 23 years- its time to stop fixating on this[/QUOTE]

Did PV hold an insurance policy on your friend’s horse that would pay him off if it died or suffered a mysterious accident?
And don’t think he isn’t well aware that the eyes of the horse world are upon him just waiting for him to step on it again.

[fiona]

Quote:
Or
Umm, let’ see…I guess the EXACT the problem is that he KILLED A HORSE! Other than that, I’m sure he’s a great guy.

So did Amy Tryon and we’re sending her to the Olympics!

Did AT plan that incident? I don’t think so! Did she stand to benefit financially from the demise of her horse? No she made a terrible mistake.

Premeditated murder of a horse for insurance money says rather more about a person than a lapse of character or an error of judgement.

I can’t believe this guy is allowed to work with animals - 0ver here you’d be banned for life i’m sure.

My question for you is: why? I mean, yes, it’s terrible that he had a horse electrocuted for the insurance money. But it was a mistake made like 10 years ago. So what exactly is the problem with him?

You wanna go away and really think that through?
The “problem” is sticking an electric current down both ends of a living horse and frying it alive. If you think that is EVER forgivable you shouldn’t be near a horse either.

So how many of you are supporting trainers who went halfway there or 3/4 of the way there, just didn’t take that final step?

None of us i would imagine. Is this common practice over there?

[Jsalem]

For me, the parallel is to the Michael Vick situation. Vick stated that his actions were “immature”. Huh? I’ve heard many people express the opinion that he is so “talented” and should therefore serve his time and be given a second chance. I’m sorry, but he’s not a brain surgeon, he’s basically an entertainer. I think society has every right to expect a certain high character of those that they put up on a pedestal and reward with admiration and $$.

Here’s my take on the matter. You don’t just go in to therapy and suddenly discover, “Wow, animals feel pain.” You don’t, late in life, find a love for animals. It’s either a part of your soul or it isn’t. Anyone who could abuse or kill a dog, a horse, whatever isn’t worthy of my support. It’s a shame because Vick is a great ball player and PV is a talented trainer. But the first rule of horsemanship is that the horse comes first. I’m not an expert on the matter, but it seems that PV wants his old life back. But I can’t take him seriously as a horseman when he violated that rule of horsemanship. So whatever great things he could teach me about riding, training, winning would be tainted by his disregard for the well being of the horse. No thanks.

[stfatpony]

[QUOTE=alterbecauseimacoward;2659346]
He didn’t do it to someone else’s horse…he did it to his own horse because he was financially struggling. It’s not like he runs around with alligator clips killing random horses. [/QUOTE]

So, does it make it okay that he killed his own horse and not someone else’s?

And, it must REALLY be okay that he ONLY did it because he was financially struggling.

I have financially struggled more than once in this business, and I have NEVER thought of having one of my horses killed for the insurance money, nor will I EVER. There are many other options.

[coffee-crisp]

The thing that makes me nervous… I don’t know anything about this guy or the killings (though now I will have to go find the book!), but it’s people like the OP-- who KNOW what has been done, dismiss it and manage to rationalize it to themselves-- who grow up to do the SAME THINGS.

Think about it. How big of a jump is it from being able to excuse someone from KILLING A HORSE FOR MONEY, to being able to convince oneself that it’s okay to be involved in the exact same thing, in the future??

Now, OP, don’t be insulted here… I’m not saying that YOU are going to do this. But it’s people like you who DO.

[Mayaty02]

“In 1994, Valliere admitted that he hired Tommy “The Sandman” Burns to electrocute his show horse, Roseau Platiere. Valliere wrote a check to pay Burns, who attached alligator clips to the horse’s nose and anus, and then plugged the wire into an outlet.” From the Providence Journal…

why would you ever want to train with someone who could do that??? Horrific.

[slainte]

[QUOTE=jetsmom;2659789]
Elite- One thing to consider is that when you are taking lessons from someone, (and especially jumping), you need to always believe that the trainer will keep your safety and your horse’s well being in mind. IE they will never ask you to do something that is dangerous or will harm your horse.

So, for example, say my horse landed a little funny from a jump and looked a little off, I would rely on my trainer to tell me, “Hey…he looks a little off. Take him back to the barn, and cold hose and if he isn’t better by “x” we’ll get the vet out.” I would expect my trainer to not ask me to continue jumping him and risk serious injury to him.

PV has already proven that he does not care about the welfare of a horse and will do things that are dangerous/deadly to horses.

Not someone that I would want to take lessons from no matter how good they are at teaching riding (note that I intentionally did not say horsemanship.)[/QUOTE]

This post is absurd -IMHO.

The horses are Acres Wild are in the best care and top condition. Injuries are NOT taken lightly, his vets do everything they can to keep those horses as comfortable and sound as possible while showing. The grooms LOVE the horses, the owners are highly involved, his wife has his back through EVERYTHING and ANYTHING.

I worked there for a year and a half - I have nothing but GREAT things to say about how Acres Wild is operated. To say he does not care about how the horses are cared for TODAY is SLANDER.

[LovesIt]

[QUOTE=Jaegermonster;2660066]
Did PV hold an insurance policy on your friend’s horse that would pay him off if it died or suffered a mysterious accident?
And don’t think he isn’t well aware that the eyes of the horse world are upon him just waiting for him to step on it again.[/QUOTE]

no he didnt, he actually cared, and left one of his lessons the next day to come and personally talk to the vet about the horse to make sure he was ok
forgive and forget people, please

[slainte]

LovesIt - I’m glad you’ve experienced the same positives as I did at Acres. It’s a TIP TOP facility, and Paul does great things for everyone involved in his business. He has a big, big, heart and treats everyone as EQUALS from his grooms to his multi-million dollar clientel.

ELITE:

If you’re learning from him and enjoying his lessons - keep going until he gives you a reason to stop. It’s YOUR riding career and no one elses. Every staff member there has something to teach you from the ground on up.

Best of luck.

[LovesIt]

@slainte!;2660174

LovesIt - I’m glad you’ve experienced the same positives as I did at Acres. It’s a TIP TOP facility, and Paul does great things for everyone involved in his business. He has a big, big, heart and treats everyone as EQUALS from his grooms to his multi-million dollar clientel.

Yes, it was amazing riding there! I’m glad someone else on here sees what a good person he REALLY is!

[Jaegermonster]

There is something wrong with the hardwiring of someone who can even consider doing what PV did, much less actually have it done.
Leopards don’t change their spots. You lay down with dogs you get up with fleas.

[Kinsella]

forgive and forget people, please

I suppose they should release Charles Manson too, huh? And, really those child molesters in the business, hey, it was a mistake - we should forgive them and forget their crimes too! :rolleyes:

And before the whole people/animals thing comes up, animals mean as much to me as people do. Sometimes more given the mindset of some people.

[GreystoneKC]

[QUOTE=LovesIt;2660162]
no he didnt, he actually cared, and left one of his lessons the next day to come and personally talk to the vet about the horse to make sure he was ok
forgive and forget people, please[/QUOTE]

Fat Chance.

I second my former post to you. Go read it.

[Hopeful_Hunter]

[QUOTE=LovesIt;2660162]
no he didnt, he actually cared, and left one of his lessons the next day to come and personally talk to the vet about the horse to make sure he was ok
forgive and forget people, please[/QUOTE]

NO.

There are some actions which cannot be forgiven. And there are many things which should never, ever be forgotten.

In the horse world, PV and the horse killers fall into that category. The kind of justification you are using has been used throughout time…it’s what allows dictators to murder; torture to happen; neighbors to be “disappeared.” Is that extreme to compare PV to those people? Yes, but ONLY to the extent that the crimes in question did not involve humans.

There is a quote, I believe it was originally stated about the Holocaust, that says something along the lines of “all that is required for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing.” I’d amend that a bit, to “for good people to forget and do nothing.”

THERE ARE CONSEQUENCES FOR EVERY DECISION YOU MAKE IN LIFE. That is something that young people have to learn through experience, maybe, but it’s true. Post a picture of yourself on a public website in a compromising situation? Don’t be shocked if a prospective date - or employer - isn’t so keen on you if they google your name and it shows up. Kill a horse for money? Don’t be shocked if people won’t accept you back in the business with open arms.

Whether or not PV is a good trainer is NOT at issue. That he is, imo, is just even more sad. Because he did ruin his life. Actions can do that. Personal accountability is what it’s about, people, and the reality is that PV made a personal decision and is now accountable for it.

So, no, I will not “let it go.” It can take moral courage not to do something you know is wrong, but that’s something I require of people who I call friend, and who I employ or support. I can feel compassion for people whose actions showed a lack, but compassion does not need to be blind or stupid. I can forgive the individual but not the action, and that is the case with PV.

[Eventer13]

To the OP: would you still be so forgiving if PV were a crap trainer and a mean person?

[Saddletramp_29]

Now if all the power in this vigilante group could be harnessed to do good instead of “beating a dead horse” that would be great.

[YankeeLawyer]

[QUOTE=donkeyman;2659525]

I will not name names but it would make you shutter to know…so the person standing next to you may not be so honest[/QUOTE]

You witnessed all that and told no one? I think that is fairly reprehensible.

[bumknees]

[QUOTE=LovesIt;2660054]
OK- i took weekly lessons with PV this summer- mind ridng improved drastically- its amazing- my trainer at home is like- WOW

but here’s my point, my friend came with me as well to lessons, she was on her horse, and he looked a little off, PV made her get off- he felt his legs, then told her to go cold hose him - called the vet and had him there the next day to get the horse checked out

i wasn’t going to say anything about this topic, but now that i have, ill say this,i find PV to be the best trainer i’ve ever ridden with, as well as one of the nicest- everyone has to be forgiven- im a forgive and forget person, its been 23 years- its time to stop fixating on this[/QUOTE]

And no one else could have improved your riding? I do not believe that.

I do not understand how anyone could forgive someone like that ? But then again I guess you would forgive someone how killed a child or raped your mother or sister? the younger generation is being brought up thinking that saying " Im sorry ’ fixes every thing well it doesn’t. It doesnt fix a darn thing. It doesn’t come close. It was never a mistake. Mistakes are not preplanned mistakes are like acidents which are called that because they are not planned if acidents were planned they would be called planneds… And all of our insurance rates would be sky high…
Sorry doesn’t do it sorry doesn’t fix what he did. the only thing that cold possibly come close is someone attaching alligator clips to his lip and anal area and plugging it in…

[Hopeful_Hunter]

[QUOTE=Saddletramp 29;2660288]
Now if all the power in this vigilante group could be harnessed to do good instead of “beating a dead horse” that would be great.[/QUOTE]

Actually, many of us DID band together to form the No Reinstatement group – I helped with some PR for that… so, maybe, these trainwrecks serve a purpose after all…