Pawing Solution - Options

[Bopper]

I am trying a 4 year old that paws when tied up and frustrated. He paws in the stall when I take my other horse away from him and paws in the trailer if he is alone. He ties well and, based on his behavior, has been hobbled before but he still gets frustrated even if hobbled. I am looking for other solutions. Please provide comments and input on other options.

I don’t have a free standing post or tree that I could tie him to for a long time so that he could just learn to stand still and with the current heat wave that would not be safe.

Horse shoe around pastern - has anyone tried this? Did it help with the banging of the shoe causing discomfort enough for the horse to stop? (used similar to a ‘pawing bracelet’)

Chains fastened to the legs above hoof or above knee so that the chain causes discomfort when he paws. Has anyone tried this?

Other suggestions?

[Simkie]

I had a young horse that did this, and I also found it very frustrating. I tried a laundry list of solutions without much change in the behavior.

Eventually, I started riding her first, then lightly sedated her while she was tied to the wall while I rode my other horse. It took only a handful of days for her to quietly stand without sedation. I think that the sedation allowed her to stand relaxed, and once she was able to do that, it was no longer an issue.

[NancyM]

I had one who would paw in the stall, on the stall door, looking for attention. I ended up opening the stall door and tying it open 24/7 with a hefty stall guard/chain instead of a door. And putting a rubber mat out in the barn aisle outside the stall. He was making the noise to get attention from the human, to get the human to come over. Removing the door to the stall and putting the rubber mat removed the ability to make the banging noise, so pawing no longer produced the noisy effect he was looking for, so he quit doing it. He got more than his fair share of human attention, always. He was smarter than the average bear. Smarter than most people I meet. And the light of my life for some years.

Your horse is telling you that he’s not happy with what is going on in his life. He is expressing his dissatisfaction with his situation. Leaving a horse alone in a horse trailer is going to stress that horse, and he is going to express those feelings. He is communicating his problems to you. This is a good thing, it allows you to make some changes in your horsemanship skills that will result in your horse being happier, more relaxed and more able to perform to his maximum ability for you. Not all horses can be forced into compliance with the human’s expectations in every situation. Listen to your horse, and learn from him about what makes him a happy horse…because that is the goal of horsemanship.

[Posting_Trot]

He’s not pawing to annoy you. He’s pawing either because in the past it has worked to get people to pay attention to him, or because he finds it self-soothing, or some combination of the two. Upping the stress levels, by tying him to a so-called “patience” pole or restraining him in such a way so that he can’t paw, is likely just to increase his anxiety. Used enough and it can cause the horse to shut down entirely. The “patience” that they learn is often not patience, but learned helplessness.

Personally, I’d say that you should ignore the pawing. Put a rubber mat down if you’re worried about stress on his hooves or damaging flooring, etc. And maybe throw him some hay before he starts pawing.

[Bopper]

I agree that he is expressing his frustration but he has to learn to be alone sometimes and/or that I can take the other horse away without him having a temper tantrum.

The pawing in the trailer seems to be when he is, again alone and we are not moving. This happens sometimes and there is not much that I can do about that. I do not leave him in the trailer alone for long periods of time just to stand there.

My concern is that he could hurt himself pawing and it is destructive so I am looking for options to either limit or eliminate the behavior.

While the goal may be to make a horse happy, I don’t think that making sure he always has a buddy with him or that he never gets frustrated is horsemanship. We all have seen spoiled horses created by owners catering to them too much.

[Eclectic_Horseman]

There are anti-pawing chains or bands that are supposed to work to curb this behavior. I’ve never used them but I know that they exist. A google search for “pawing chains for horses” will bring up quite a variety.

[luvmyhackney]

Pawing isn’t the issue. It’s the anxiety. If you stop the pawing it will manifest in a possible worse way.

Look up Warwick Schiller method.

[endlessclimb]

For the trailer, does he eat while he’s in there? I’d put the nicest hay I could possibly find in there with him and see what that does.

For the stall, I’d do the same, and add the shoe on the ankles to discourage it.

[happilyretired]

I have a 21 year old very smart and energetic gelding – he has always pawed. He does it to get attention — so we don’t feed him if he is pawing but wait until he stops. He paws in the trailer when stopped in traffic – this is due to anxiety and impatience and you can’t do anything about that. We used to go to a Showgrounds where the stalls had no mats and clay floors – he’d dig holes but again, there wasn’t much I could do about it. At home he’s on a stall mat and is comfortable with the daily routine so its not really an issue. In my opinion trying to extinguish the behavior is probably not possible.

[findeight]

You have not bought him yet, have you? Thats a bad, destructive to whatever he is pawing habit that also causes self harm to the horse. Whatever the reason it starts it rarely goes completely away. If you are looking for excuses for the behavior, unaware of how and why it started and don’t know how or if it even can be schooled out plus are lacking a suitable facility to even make trying possible? He might be one to pass on.

Maybe less food, more exercise and full turn out would help but, BTDT and the minute they have to be confined and away from their buddies, the digging returns, even on pavement.

Honestly, having had a couple of cribbers and one confirmed pawer? I’d rather have another cribber then a pawer.

Pawing/kicking chains not only don’t work, they can cause harm to the legs. Plus they make the most painfully annoying racket short of a jack hammer but the jack hammer operator has hours and takes breaks…

My pawer did not do it in the trailer and was, otherwise, one of my 2 best show horses. Which was fortunate for him. Still don’t want another.

[sascha]

I absolutely abhor pawing unless it’s connected to actively colicking or choking. I have zero tolerance.

What I have done:

1. Not tie. This is a pain in the ass for the first while because you need to have peed, have all your crap out ready to go and spend the majority of your grooming/tacking time putting legs back in place whenever they move, the moment they move. However, it pays dividends. The horse learns that there simply is no pawing or fiddling around and the only consequence is getting a leg quietly placed back into the 4-square position when it strays. Bonus, do it long enough and they learn to stand “tied” quietly without actually being tied.

2. Tie the horse and arm yourself with several shocking but safe missiles like jelly scrubbers or sponges. When the horse has learned to stand quietly while not tied, tie the horse and walk away. You may need to hide around a corner if the horse is particularly smart. The horse WILL (maybe not the first time but it will happen) paw when you are not in foot replacing range. Lob a missile at roughly chest level. The shock that you can correct a behaviour from afar will straighten them right up … may take a few missiles over a few days. NOTE - if you judge that your horse is going to panic when something comes whistling by at chest level out of the blue - skip this step and just walk back over and over placing legs back in position and leaving again. Repeat and repeat and repeat.

3. Pawing in trailer - light smack on the canon bone with a dressage whip, close door. If pawing resumes, repeat. A loud “QUIT!” is a good thing to add. If your horse paws in the trailer at stop lights, roll down your window and yell “QUIT!” If it’s ingrained enough, it will work.

4. Pawing in the stall - figure it out. If it’s attention seeking, reprimand, walk away, whatever gets the behaviour to stop. If it’s due to stress, deal with that whether it’s providing better forage, ulcer care, or spending time with the horse in the stall while there aren’t other horses in the barn and putting #1 into practise followed by #2.

All of this is very boring, very slow and a giant pain in the ass. I have done it many times and have always been pleased with the results, but it’s not for everyone. You have to be “on” 100% of the time, constantly putting in training time, when around a devoted pawer. If that’s not possible for you, either don’t buy the horse or find a different method.

Editing to add - this really does work. My current horse came to me completely batshit confirmed in her need to paw. She is the horse now on xmas day when a few of us pitch in to give BO’s the day off from stall cleaning that will stand unsupervised in crossties for literally hours when weather is bad and we can’t turn out (the past few years for pete’s sake.) She has another buddy who is as trustworthy and a 3rd who is almost as trustworthy but we poke our heads into the area they’re crosstied every time we go by just to be sure she’s not stressing out. If it were just mine and the other fully ‘broke’ one, we would only need to remember to put them away at the end of the morning lol.

[fledermaus]

I have your exact horse. She paws in the trailer if alone. She paws for attention (she also runs her teeth along the blanket bar in front of her stall for attention). She has mostly given up pawing when cross tied in the aisle, but only because she is more relaxed there than she used to be. I have tried MANY solutions., including all the ones mentioned above. None worked. Especially in the trailer. She has been this way since she was a filly, and now she is twelve.

Someone may think it insensitive to her needs, but if my horse is going to trailer out, she has to do it alone, because there is simply no one to go with her. Period. She stays home or trailers alone. I have a pawing chain but I’ve never used it. I don’t think it would help.

I gave her a year off trailering and stayed home, but I really don’t want to do that any more. I think I will put an extra stall mat in the trailer and put her trail boots on her, and let her paw. I don’t think there is another solution for her.

[candyappy]

He is young and anxious in his new surroundings. Maybe he did it at home and was rewarded by getting someones undivided attention?

My younger gelding does this on occasion when tied and I ignore him.

I would give him some time to feel comfortable, ignore it and see if it goes away with time.

[OnAMission]

Anticipate a situation where he will paw; stall, tied, what have you. When he paws go get him and make him work. Put him up, if he paws, go get him again and make him work. Standing tied is rest time, pawing means come get me and make me work. Try to have your timing as good as possible so you don’t have a delay from pawing to working, make the transition clear.

At the same time: a young horse in a new situation; not surprising he is nervous, antsy, frustrated, insecure. Think about what you could do to build his confidence, comfort level, how he can look to you for the support instead of pawing. Warwick Schiller is a good resource for that and you’ll probably find it under separation anxiety. That is how you learn to meet the horse where he’s at and not just physically stop him from moving his feet. In the long run it makes you a better horseperson. Do this first in a low key session where you anticipate working on the pawing, not all the other things and the pawing is just an annoyance on the fringe. The trailer pawing is the hardest to manage but if you’re succcessful with the rest of it it will diminish or disappear.

[RMJacobs]

I had a mare that pawed at the corral gate when she felt her human servants were not bringing her food fast enough. I was afraid she would injure herself. I would toss pinecones at her butt while I was getting the other horses’ feed ready, and it made no difference. I tried waiting her out, which resulted in the other horses being long done eating and her still pawing. I would grab the moment when she stopped, and feed her, but I have a feeling DH was not doing any of this due to time constraints, and he did most of the feeding. It just never got better, probably due to inconsistency, or maybe because she was just that stubborn.

Rebecca

[OnAMission]

We had a dedicated pawer years ago that we somehow trained to just wave his hoof in the air instead of pawing at the ground. He looked a little silly most of the time doing this but I guess it worked!

[findeight]

If you keep at home and are the only handler, repositioning the feet and throwing sponges while saying quit might work.

If you board out privately or in a commercial barn where others will be handling the horse to turn in/out, lead anywhere, tie anywhere for any reason? Even paid, professional staff does not have the time or inclination to follow your routine exactly every day. Unpaid “staff” like other boarders, kids or random people are even less likely to consistently follow your program and instructions even if they do know you. Just the way depending on others to handle your horse goes.

So, if OP here is going to keep it at home, there is a slight possibility consistent routine will reduce it. Mostly.
But if she is going to be boarding out? Different handling by different people wont provide the consistency needed.

IIWY, i’d keep looking. PITA. Right up there with cribbing.

[Cowboy_Girl]

He’s a young 4 year old that’s exhibiting childish, spoiIt, I wanna, I’m gonna have a tantrum behavior. And he has to learn in order to become a good citizen.
Whomever hobble trained him before didn’t do the job right. When a horse is hobbled it will be come his chill place.
But with some horses this takes time. And you don’t feed treats or grain to quiet him while he’s learning. - which is likely what happened, so now he’s worse. Patience poles do the same thing. And yes learned helplessness is a phase of the learning process for some horses. And some loose a little hair in the process. But then they pass to the chill time phase.
It works on everything from OTTBs to drafts. Unless you like having poorly behaved, destructive 1000 pound creatures at your home.

[lenapesadie]

@luvmyhackney

Pawing isn’t the issue. It’s the anxiety. If you stop the pawing it will manifest in a possible worse way.

Look up Warwick Schiller method

This

[DiamondJubilee]

I had a young horse who would paw in his stall when it was close to feeding time (in anticipation, never when I was present in the barn - his stall would be a write off so I knew he did it through the night). It was hard on the mats, hard on his shoes and hard on him of course.

I did purchase a pair of these (you did mention horse shoes which maybe cheaper, but I liked the safe look of these) and they really did help.

Justin Beasley Pawing Bracelet - Pair

I only used them for about a year (as a 2 year old) and he stopped less than a year later and I never needed them again. I’m not sure if he just grew out of it, or if they helped curb his pawing.