Paying to Try a Horse

[mvp]

No, you should not have to pay to rent the horse you are considering buying or leasing.

That’s the seller’s investment. And that paid off for the seller in that you decided to lease one, right?

If you paid your pro for helping your kid during those trial rides, and those were billed as “lessons,” there should be no commission paid on the lease. If you paid him a commission for setting up the lease, his helping your kind during those test-rides were his investment in the deal. It’s part of what he did in order to help you guys decide to lease the horse.

Take or leave this bit: I don’t like the willy-nilly extortion of clients that happens in many corners of the horse biz. If I were doing business here (and I’m one of those old ammies who has been around the block a few times), I’d be going to my pro and explaining why I wasn’t paying those $135 fees for the use of the horse I was trying out. If they couldn’t make those charges go away, I’d cancel my lease and walk. They probably don’t want to lose a year’s lease fee, your board check, your training and showing business for a measely $540. But if they do want to do that, your much larger business is there’s to use. I would not compromise on this point both because of the math and because it’s early in the relationship and you want to make it clear that you and the pros will treat each other like professional adults.

[findeight]

OP, you need to talk directly to trainer here. Owners aren’t usually privy to billing mistakes to other clients or aware of what trainer might charge other clients for trying out their sale/lease horse without disclosing to both parties. They may have no idea trainer added an Owners Fee and never planned on crediting owners bill, just pocketing it.

Give this 50/50 chance of being what happened. Speak to trainer assuming the best intentions but, as said above, it is a strike one.

Sorry but that billing error is exactly what B told my friend in my above story. It was also used when I found out a new assistant trainer billed a very good Junior ( Medal kid) I authorized to hack my horse out and I was billed for a Pro jump school at the same time. Junior was charged $40 for a 20 min hack and I $70 for the same trail ride. New assistant was stupid, didn’t know clients were pretty open and friendly and able to easily figure out billing for ghost services. Asst removed the charges with…oooops, billing error, yeah, you got caught. Asst was fired after head trainer got home.

Trust but verify and dont assume everybody is as honest as you are. This business will teach you otherwise…

[LovesHorses]

Glad they cleared the charges.

Side note: If you had traveled to see a horse this charge wouldn’t surprise me. A lot of trainers will credit the travels fees to the commission on the lease/sale.

[EmilyM]

In my opinion it is not usual to pay a trial fee to try potential lease/sale horses. That is a fee to ride the horse. I would expect that to be disclosed up front given it is not the norm. Especially since you are ending up leasing one of the two tried. Paying a fee to a trainer for coaching on trial horses is normal, or it is part of a commission structure. It can be both. I’ve seen several variants on this.

[Bogie]

I’m glad you spoke up and questioned the fee. I’ve never heard of paying both a lesson fee and a trial fee. I’ve certainly paid to take a lesson on a horse that I wanted to buy – with the horse’s trainer, because I wanted to be coached on the horse by someone who knew it. I have never been asked to pay a fee for trying a horse.

The bigger issue is not that the fee was charged, but that you weren’t told up front. That kind of sneaky billing is dishonest and likely to occur in other areas (as others have said). I concur that one of the most important things to ask is “what will this cost me”. Ask often!

[mvp]

But why would you pay to try a horse for whom you’d potentially pay a lease fee? If you wouldn’t pay a pro to coach you through riding him, because that money is part of his commission, why wouldn’t the fee to try him be considered part of the lease fee?

[EmilyM]

Maybe it’s just a convention in my mind. If someone is charging me to try a horse, I’m going to assume there is something wrong with it honestly. They could say $100 to try it. You could watch it go and it could be lame. And that cost $100.

I am paying someone for their time for their expertise to help me asses a horse if I pay a coach. Or it’s for my piece of mind or help me confirm I’m looking at a lame horse. If someone is selling a horse that I will potentially give them money for in a transaction, I’m not going to pay them for that.

I realize tire kickers exist etc. But that’s part of the sales game and these two pros work together on the same barn so they can figure out that is not the situation.

The whole Situation reeks to me of trainers seeing new clients in the barn and thinking of ways to pad the bill.

[mvp]

You realize that the OP was billed $85 by her pro. for that coaching and advising; the BO/HO (at the same facility) added $135 for the use of the horse, right? Not sure what you are saying about why the BO/seller would legitimately charge anyone to try a horse they might lease or purchase.

[EmilyM]

@mvp1 What are you asking me?

I’m saying I would not pay a horse use fee to try a horse. I would pay a coach by way of fees or commission or both. That’s all I’m saying. It’s not normal to pay a horse use fee to try a horse. That’s my point. What is yours? I’m confused why you keep asking me to clarify?

[OfCourseItsAnAlter]

Possibly because the sentence structure of your initial response makes it read as “NOT unusual to pay a trial fee.” That’s what I “saw” the first time I read your reply and I thought, “Where is she from? Because I’ve never heard of it.”

It wasn’t until I read your last post and scrolled up to re-read and see exactly what it was you had said that I realized that you had actually said the opposite.

[trubandloki]

@OfCourseItsAnAlter

Possibly because the sentence structure of your initial response makes it read as “NOT unusual to pay a trial fee.” That’s what I “saw” the first time I read your reply and I thought, “Where is she from? Because I’ve never heard of it.”

That is how I read it the first time too and had to re-read it again to see that it did not say that.

[EmilyM]

Well that would explain my confusion. Thanks.

[Midge]

No, just no. You were essentially charged to try horses. No. If a stranger came to try those horses, you can guarantee there would not be a charge. I would take this as an early warning sign. Also, you were looking for a step up horse and you’ve ended up with a green one. Are you keeping the schoolmaster?

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

In answer to the OP’s question, I’ve never heard of someone being charged a fee just to try a horse, versus a nonrefundable deposit once the horse was out on trial. I have once or twice heard of barns asking if someone trying a horse might want to take a lesson with the on-site trainer. But that would presumably be the standard lesson fee. I also know many people charge someone an additional $10-$25 for lessoning on a barn horse or schoolmaster (on top of the lesson fee), if the student isn’t going to be riding a personal horse or a lease horse.

I have, sadly, known of the practice of many barns tacking on additional fees, in hopes the clients won’t ask what they are. Many clients are ashamed they will look poor/cheap to question a fee, and for fear of seeming ignorant in the face of trainer anger.

But “bookkeeping errors” do seem very common, reading through this thread!

An additional $135 per lesson seems both weirdly specific and incredibly greedy. And even if it was a legitimate fee, it’s certainly significant enough that the client should be told. This is not an emergency situation, and even if the barn doesn’t have a rate sheet (and I hate it when barns don’t), there was ample opportunity to inform the client.

[DawgLady]

I’m with everyone else here. I smell greed. Before show season starts, I would review the fee structure very carefully. And when the invoice comes, make sure every penny adds up.
I’ve been at a place like this. Funny enough, every time there was a “billing mistake” it was in their favor.

[lintesia]

I mis-read it as well and was about to post when I scrolled down to see that others had beat me to it!

[Ruth0552]

Well that’s still only 1 of the horses. I’d ask the other owner as well and then relay to the trainer that both owners assured me that was a billing error and you hope that his billing will be more accurate in the future, without such errors. And know it is strike one, and look for another barn, just in case. What are you going to do with the old horse? I’m not sure I’d let this guy sell it. You could always look for another barn and if it comes to light explain that you are looking for an appropriate sale venue/leasor/retirement home for your treasured schoolmaster.

[RacetrackReject]

I"m not quite sure how to quote a post in the new format, but I agree with Daventry.

And what if someone from outside of the barn tried the horse, would they charge them $135/ride? If someone told me that I had to pay to try a sale horse, I think I would tell them they can just keep the horse (outside of a lesson, but I would bring my own trainer anyway). This kind of seems like they are taking advantage of in-barn billing and I would be wary about future undisclosed charges surfacing.

[trubandloki]

@RacetrackReject

I"m not quite sure how to quote a post in the new format

There are two options. Quoting is one of the nice features of the new format.

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[RacetrackReject]

Thank you so much! <3