If it’s a dangerous design issue, then the suit would probably have to be products liability.
The flipping the stirrup over the withers is a good strategy mentioned above that I forgot about. One of the dressage trainers in my area has her tiny tots (often on comparatively large mounts and often using peacock stirrups) do this, because the kids tend to slither down the horse’s side.
These stirrups have a history of inflicting wounds on children. We haven’t used them for many years after seeing a facial injury on a child (student of well known west coast trainer).
If they are a known bad product, why shouldn’t the manufacturer by liable? Or the trainer (if they knew the product has been known to be injurious)?
Thanks IPEsq. Product liability is, of course, correct.
[QUOTE=handwalk;8917897]
These stirrups have a history of inflicting wounds on children. We haven’t used them for many years after seeing a facial injury on a child (student of well known west coast trainer).
If they are a known bad product, why shouldn’t the manufacturer by liable? Or the trainer (if they knew the product has been known to be injurious)?
Thanks IPEsq. Product liability is, of course, correct.[/QUOTE]Horses are known to be dangerous. Should any trainer that has a horse that spooked and a kid fell off be liable? They know the horse could be injurious and has a “history.”
Regular stirrups are known to be injurious. Should a rider that gets dragged sue whomever they can think of? Plastic bags are known to be injurious. Should someone who spooks a horse accidentally with one be responsible?
Your attitude is one of the big reasons that riding is becoming more and more bubble-wrapped and the depth of riding skill is becoming shallower and shallower. God forbid someone get hurt. I am seriously shocked that you are a trainer.
I think the biggest problem with peacock stirrups is that people think that they are safer when using them, or that their children are safer while using them. So, the objection to them is a bit different than the objection to riding a horse in general; yes, riding a horse has inherent dangers, but those dangers do not, for many people outweigh the benefits of riding.
Peacock stirrups though are assumed to mitigate some of those dangers; if they do not in fact do that, maybe people should use a different type of safety stirrup.
Does everyone love peacock stirrups so much that they’re unwilling to use one of the other safety stirrups instead?
A good instructor doesn’t put kids on known dangerous horses. Ditto for using known injurious equipment. We all know horse riding has inherent dangers. Our students should trust our judgement. A child needs “16 stitches” and the instructor knew the product had a history of causing damage?
GHM impaled a horse with an iron pole (some of your remember this). You think that was ignored by the family? That wasn’t ignored for fear of lowering the quality of horsemanship in the USA :lol:
[QUOTE=Christa P;8917711]
I wonder if switching the design would make them safer. Put the knob for the leather tab on top and the hook on the bottom.
The hook inside wouldn’t help as then the rubber-band would tighten and hold with weight against it instead of releasing.[/QUOTE]
I was thinking about switching the leather tab. I think I have a pair that allow you to do either/or
[QUOTE=handwalk;8917994]
A good instructor doesn’t put kids on known dangerous horses. Ditto for using known injurious equipment. We all know horse riding has inherent dangers. Our students should trust our judgement. A child needs “16 stitches” and the instructor knew the product had a history of causing damage? [/QUOTE]
[sarcasm]Oh good. Someone who actually reads. [/sarcasm]
Please point out where I said trainer knew the product had a history of causing damage. If she did, why on earth would I post asking if people had had similar experiences?
Sue the designer/manufacturer. Leave the trainer out of it.
As for putting kids on dangerous horses? A horse that spooks once very six months is NOT dangerous. A horse that spooks violently every ride is one thing…but you can still get sued for the first…because you knew it had spooked in the past. I can’t imagine how you even teach with that kind of attitude.
Here’s another example that would be prime for a lawsuit: Rider learning to jump is on a horse perfectly suited to teaching beginners to jump. Rider puts horse to a terrible distance and horse stops. Rider stays on. Horse does this on occasion, not because it’s a stopper, but because these learning riders occasionally screw up badly. This happens to a different rider, rider comes off and breaks their arm. Should those parents sue? The trainer knows that the horse will occasionally stop, so are they liable?
:rolleyes:
And just so it’s clear to everyone else…no one is suing. I’m just gobsmacked it was even mentioned. Thank you to those that had useful, non-litigious, suggestions.
[QUOTE=Christa P;8917711]
I wonder if switching the design would make them safer. Put the knob for the leather tab on top and the hook on the bottom.
The hook inside wouldn’t help as then the rubber-band would tighten and hold with weight against it instead of releasing.[/QUOTE]
Thanks, Christa P. That’s what I was wondering, if an inside hook would increase the tension on the rubber band.
There has to be a “better mouse trap”. Like having the knob on the top and the hook on the bottom, as you describe.
I get where you both are coming from, but saying people should sue the stirrup maker or the trainer is like saying that If I cut my hand on a coke can, I should sue Coca Cola or the store who sold me the drink, since soda cans are potentially dangerous. Just like soda cans, many different companies manufacture peacock/breakaway stirrups, and while they can be dangerous, 99% of the time they aren’t and the function they provide outweighs the risk.
[QUOTE=Posting Trot;8917972]
Does everyone love peacock stirrups so much that they’re unwilling to use one of the other safety stirrups instead?[/QUOTE]
when i bought mine i was poorer; the peacocks were about $30; the foot-frees over $100. if i were replacing stirrups, i would get the foot-frees this time.
[QUOTE=StormyDay;8918301]
I get where you both are coming from, but saying people should sue the stirrup maker or the trainer is like saying that If I cut my hand on a coke can, I should sue Coca Cola or the store who sold me the drink, since soda cans are potentially dangerous. Just like soda cans, many different companies manufacture peacock/breakaway stirrups, and while they can be dangerous, 99% of the time they aren’t and the function they provide outweighs the risk.[/QUOTE]
There are various theories of products liability, and each theory has its own elements that would have to be proved. I think the hook on some of the peacock stirrups could be argued to be a design flaw that is likely to cause harm. There is sometimes an element of consumer expectations (such as, an item that you heat up may get hot), but it varies.
Inherently dangerous activities fall under a different standard than activities that are not inherently dangerous. So, if you are snowmobiling and you get injured from that, whether or not you could bring a products liability claim would hinge on facts different from if you are sitting on a lawn chair and get injured.
Not saying anyone should sue anyone, but that would be one potential way to get rid of the large hook design of some of these stirrups. Or, parents/trainers could just buy the knobbier ones.
I have seen two kids dragged when their laces caught on the lower hook. That’s preventable by having the kids ride in zippered boots.
It never occurred to me that the stirrups could cause injury by tearing skin. Yikes! Thanks for the heads-up!
And Saturday, a little kid I was helping as she dismounted got hung up by her britches. Fortunately, the instructor I was helping was literally a few steps away and could grab the horse while I grabbed the girl and lifted her high enough to get her unhooked. No blood involved, but that was way too close for my taste. The horse started to spook - if a horse took offf with a kid dangling I can see how even a small hook could mangle.
Yes. I completely ripped the crotch out of my breeches from a peacock stirrup when I dismounted once and it left a red welt on my skin. Funny at the time but could have been worse if it broke the skin.
Place the stirrup and leather in front of the saddle flap before dismounting. This takes the danger of getting caught out of the equation. 
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