Pellets vs cubes vs Forage extender?

[Callista17]

I apologize, I know this similar topic has been posted often on the “net”. I am somewhat going against vet’s advice, so I am looking for opinions.

I have a 25 yr old ottb (chestnut mare- yep- she knows what she wants & doesn’t).

For a few years I have been going back and forth. She LOVED hay…then basically one week did not. I’ve had multiple vets check her teeth, because knowing my horse…I think she has one/some? bad teeth. Maybe no one has found “the one”?

The vets always look, say she has a few points, nothing major, but she doesn’t seem to like her timothy hay. I’ve tried different suppliers- nope.
One time she had her teeth floated- a bad tooth and that night I found it in her grain bucket, but she didn’t eat anymore hay. She’s had bloodwork a few times - perfect.

I started feeding her forage extender from Poulin- soaked. She LOVES IT. LOVES, BEGS! The vet said to back off, why would she eat hay if I give her that? Vet thinks I spoiler her- maybe? Lol She started dropping weight.

She does eat some hay- probably 5 flakes a day. No matter how much I give to her, smaller meals- no difference. She moves what she doesn’t want to the back of her stall and pees on it.

She also gets 1 cup Amplify AM & PM, and Poulins Fibre Max. She gets a lot of grain, and loves it.

Vet asked if she eats grass? Yes, loves it, then vet thinks she should be a big girl and eat her hay. At 25 now, I’ve decided, I want her fat & sassy.

Opinions on timothy/alfalfa pellets vs cubes for fiber? Or should I stick with the Poulin forage extender?

Obviously my local Poulin rep is all about the extender and tons of it!

What are your opinions? Thanks in advance!

[LCDR]

Very limited experience, but my 26 year old TB mare decided to stop eating coastal bermuda, which is the most.common hay here in SC. She had been eating coastal sine I bought her at age 5. She has been examined by a “real” equine dentist. By that I mean a veterinarian who is board certified by the American Veterinary Medical Association as specialist in equine dentistry.

So I bought several types of Standlee hay and some other brand forage preparations and started experimenting.

Timothy hay got a sniff, and I got a “what is this crap look?” Safe Starch was eaten pretty well. Triple Crown Alfalfa Forage Blend proved to be acceptable but she was not enthusiastic about it and always left some behind. Next was Standlee Alfalfa-Orchard Grass Compressed bales. The alfalfa leaves got picked out, but she never finished a complete serving, Then came Standlee Compressed Alfalfa Bales. Bingo, she loves it, and would likely try to eat a whole bale if I put one in front of her.

Mind you, this trial process took weeks since I didn’t want to make sudden changes. I currently mix Safe Starch with Standlee Alfalfa, half and half by weight, and she is happy with that. I went with the mix to avoid a straight alfalfa diet. . Standlee also has a newer product, Chopped Alfalfa, which I only learned of recently and haven’t been able to find locally yet.

[Callista17]

Hmmm…with the Standlee Alfalfa compressed- is it basically alfalfa cubes?
She loves timothy, alfalfa, whatever, as long as it cubes or pellets (I soak it because I’ve had a different horse choke- that’s me being paranoid). Tonight she even snuck her head out of her stall (she just finished her grain, I don’t care, there was no where to go while I was just dumping her water bucket) to work on the water & cubes. Just actual hay is blah!

[LCDR]

No, the alfalfa she loves is just standard alfalfa hay, basically cut off of a large square bale, and then compressed even more and wrapped for shipping. I did try Standlee alfalfa pellets, which I soaked 1 part pellets to 2 parts water by volume. She liked it, but I feed her at 6 times a day in small batches (one of the benefits of being retired and having her at home, and practically living in the barn myself doing woodworking in the barn’s shop). Soaking a batch every 4 hours was too much of a chore, and I was looking for something simpler.

And in my mare’s case she will now eat baled alfalfa hay. She just decided, basically overnight, that she would no longer eat bermuda hay, and that timothy or orchardgrass bales weren’t acceptable either.

What’s interesting is that Safe Starch, which she does eat, is a mix of chopped timothy and orchardgrass. I’m thinking it is the tougher stems that keep her from eating either one in baled hay form, The Saft Starch mix to my touch feels much softer and moister. It is likely not the hay itself, but the texture.

I’d think about picking up a single bale of Standlee alfalfa compressed hay and just offering it. Tractor Supply stocks it at about $25 a bale, so you won’t be out of pocket much if she turns her nose up at it. My mare noses through it and eats the leaves first, but then more slowly will finish off the rest.

[Callista17]

Oh ok gotcha! I was at TSC today. Ty

[JB]

I’m CRINGING at a vet who thinks a horse is like a child you can say “put on your big girl panties and eat your vegetables”

Sure, a horse who is otherwise ENTIRELY healthy, can be coerced into eating less than yummy hay if that’s all there is, and that’s all you can get. To do that to an older horse who has some dental issues is…ridiculous.

Not all horses like Timothy - it seems to be the hay that can most easily be done poorly, as in less palatable.

If she’s eating 10-15lb (or more) of hay, I’d take it! Feed what she’ll eat

My 33yo eats grass well, still. He’s having trouble these days with hay, but his workaround is to just chew extra slowly and spend more time chewing on the side where he still has all his molars This simply means he doesn’t eat as much has as he “should”.

Cubes are the long-stem fiber that horses need for the scratch factor, so if she’ll eat another .5% of her body weight or so in that, awesome. Then the rest can be pellets. It sounds like you might be maxing out on how much grain you can feed, which is fine.

Feed what she loves. Some hay extenders are fortified to some degree, so just make sure you’re not coming up on ODing on something like selenium.

[Montanas_Girl]

Despite its traditional popularity among horse owners, timothy is a not terribly palatable hay and has a tendency to be quite stemmy. Have you tried a softer, more palatable grass hay, like orchardgrass? Or alfalfa, which most horses find to be irrestistible?

If she’s eating 10-15 pounds of hay per day, then she’s getting her minimal long-stem forage requirements met. I’d supplement that with a complete senior feed and then whatever forage replacement product she’s willing to eat. At 25 years old, she’s earned the right to be picky.

[wsmoak]

My old guy got to where he wouldn’t eat enough hay, I think it was just too much work to pull it from the Nibble Net and chew it. I switched to a chopped hay – Safe Starch but he didn’t really need it, so I started chopping my own orchardgrass with this setup

DIY chopped hay

I’ve been buying Triple Crown chopped hay for the ancient one. He still has some teeth and actually can still eat regular baled hay, but he doesn’t eat as much as he used to through the Nibble Net. He’s nearing 30 and it just seems like too much effort. I’ve upped his soaked senior feed and started the chopped hay, but it’s expensive and he doesn’t really need the “Safe Starch”. So I was reading about using a leaf mulcher and then realized… self, you have one! I usually use it for chipping …

He also liked the Lucerne Farms High-Fiber Chopped Forage Horse Feed but I didn’t love that it was coated with molasses. But I mixed that in at maybe 25% mostly so that it wouldn’t be a big change if I couldn’t do my hay chopping and he got more of that. It was a lot of work!

He also got soaked Triple Crown Senior + alfalfa pellets. At his age, he could have whatever he wanted and would eat.

[Callista17]

THANK YOU!!! THAT’S WHAT I THINK!!!

Vet says teeth are fine, health’s fine, I am just giving her too much “good tasting alternatives” so given the choice she eats that over hay…yeah, however when I drop those, her weight drops- like a rock, and she WON’T increase her hay.

Teeth and health are floated/checked every 6 months and once, in 4 years? She had the bad tooth they found that they said needed to be filed, or whatever, but it fell out which wasn’t expected by the vet I suppose.

I feel better I am on the right track! She gets what she wants and begs for:-) I can try more alfalfa hay. I used to feed orchard grass hay, but she was backing off that too. Thanks everyone!

P.S. I think there’s a tooth/issue somewhere, even though on paper there’s no valid reason she shouldn’t be licking her all her hay clean.

[JB]

@Callista17

Vet says teeth are fine,

@Callista17

One time she had her teeth floated- a bad tooth and that night I found it in her grain bucket

Her teeth may be “fine” for her age, but they aren’t FINE. Assuming it was a molar you found, then odds are good some other molars are worn to near the gum surface, and/or don’t have great chewing surfaces anymore. I’m not sure I would be trusting this vet’s judgement on her teeth if she also thinks you should withhold the “good stuff” to make her eat more hay.

[Callista17]

This was many vets that have checked and floated her teeth. I just wasn’t sure because she wasn’t eating the hay so I had different vets from the practice, actually 2 practices as one closed her office.

[Critter]

Last year my 3 suddenly stopped eating their hay…of course we were only halfway through a 12 ton load of timothy. They completely decided it was not edible. I could pick through and find some bales they would tolerate but the rest was no way. Hay was beautiful and smelled great. It was very dense, heavy bales and I do wonder if they had sprayed the stuff on to dry it.

Fortunately our neighbor was feeding really crappy hay and we were able to sell the rest of the bales to them - their horses gobbled it up. Got a new load but switched to a grass/alfalfa blend instead of the timothy and so far my guys are much happier and eating most everything.

[Callista17]

I was wondering that too!

I believe the old hay had acid sprayed to dry it- I believe propionic acid? I know the current hay supplier has commercial dryers…I’ve tried a different supplier for a few bales, but considered trying more.

But then I’m like she’s 25 and breaks out of her stall (ok, looks for it and sticks out her head) to beg and get what I call her mush. Her barn name is Jolie, so w the hay mush I call her Sloppy Jo🤣

[Pico_Banana]

I have a senior who was 26 when I got her almost 3 years ago. Chestnut mare, registered paint. She had been fed no hay for some time before I adopted her, only massive amounts of Blue Seal Trotter.

Her teeth have had regular attention since I’ve had her and she’s missing two molars on one side.

She also is not a great hay eater. I give her free choice Timothy mix, but she probably only eats 6-9 lbs per day. One bizarre thing is that she tends to eat more when it’s in a string hay net hung so the hay is between chest and knee height. Nibble net style nets are also okay, but string is better. She wastes a decent amount, but will still eat more this way than if I give it to her loose.

I maintain her weight on about 6 lbs of triple crown senior, fed over three meals. She also gets alfalfa cubes 3-4 times a day. She will happily eat grass, so it’s easier to keep weight on her in the summer - then she doesn’t get as many cubes.

She likes her cubes on the drier side - just enough water to soften them but no more - so I tend to start soaking them at the previous meal. With enough time, they will soften even with minimal water.

But at her age (now almost 29!), I don’t worry about the hay so much. As long as her weight is good and her energy level is good, I’m happy. So I’d feed your mare what she will eat, but definitely go for cubes over pellets or the extender if she will eat them so you get more fiber.