HastyrebelJane, we’re not being smart-asses, really. It’s just that what you are referring to has been fomenting for many days and is all over the online as well as mainstream racing discussion. You’re kinda’ late to the party! No problem: welcome! You will learn that, yes, “something” happened at Penn on Saturday.
Please don’t be put off. We welcome your input. This just happens to be a hot-button topic and it has generated a great deal of passionate commentary. Hang in there!
Go Get 'Em!
Dick,
Go get them! Change will not come unless people stand up and make a stand. Thank you for helping lead the charge. I admire your fortitude.
Hallie
Racing Dreams, LLC
“You’re not the only oyster in the stew” Fats Waller
DickHertz just became my fav poster on this board.
I admire your fortitude as well.
Some sort of mixed news tonight.
Kudos to the chart caller, someone must have gotten to him. I noticed a horse in the 8th race was unsaddled at about the 13/16 pole. The comment actually does say vanned off. That is one of the first vanned off comments at Penn in a while. On the bright side, from what I could see at a distance, the horse did seem to be walking around on four legs so let’s hope he’s ok.
Bravo chart reporter - we just want the facts reported, especially in the unfortunate event of a breakdown. Every little bit helps Penn restore some credibility.
I give props to Equibase for addressing the problem at Penn regarding the chart reporter. The chart for Laughing Moon has been updated a 2nd time and now reports the truth, albeit sad.
Wow! This is the result of collective outrage. Nothing like holding their hands to the fire.
Another 'Attaboy" to you, Dick. Are you aware of any other discrepancies in the charts from that track?
Many…Lion’s Pride on December 18 was a catastrophic breakdown and is misreported. I’m not trying to make equibase’s life a complete hell so I haven’t felt the need to push the issue a whole lot further regarding past charts. They’d literally have to go back and change at least a dozen charts from 2009. Lion’s Pride was another Gill horse. THe problem is if anyone wants to go back and try and see exactly how many Gill horses broke down, they’ll never really know because the charts are poor. It begs the question, was there pressure from Penn to make vague comments or was this simply a poor worker? I’m not accusing Penn of influencing anything to be clear, but it smells rather fishy to me.
It should read: Lion’s Pride broke down (because that’s what happened in terms of reporting the chart)
Goes back to one of my original posts: If there is a two person car crash and two people die, it’s not lying to say “There was a two person car accident on Main Street.” But it’s certainly not including the whole story. Judging by the depth and detail of the charts at Penn from last night, someone got spanked pretty hard. I think there was mounting pressure from other places and not just here to be fair.
GREAT WORK, DICK!
Good job, Dick! I know very little about the racing community, but take a particular inerest to Penn National, since my mare is one of Flint Stites’ horses and raced at Penn National in 2002 and 2003.
Keep on them! Keep us updated!
:yes:
~Hollyn
(mom to Steppin Not Dragon, a Fred Astaire mare)
Dick, to be sure I don’t think that the powers that be at Penn or Equibase know that “we” and/or this thread exist. What I’ve realized THROUGH this thread is that the horseracing community at large is speaking up about the blight on the land. I’m still blown away by the response from Maggi Moss!
[QUOTE=Laurierace;4645119]
Give em hell Dick![/QUOTE]
Great job Dick…
I think all the posters on this thread should send a letter to editors at the Blood Horse and Thoroughbred Times. It may fall on deaf ears but if they get 20 or 30 letters maybe they will print something…
NICE WORK!
Way to go DH.
I am surprised that the jock agents haven’t been all over equibase for the misrepresentation of the jocks. It might be worth it to put a bug in their ears. I know when I worked in the media dept at EMD if I was off by one third place finish in the jock standings in the program they gave me hell.
[QUOTE=MintHillFarm;4647549]
Great job Dick…
I think all the posters on this thread should send a letter to editors at the Blood Horse and Thoroughbred Times. It may fall on deaf ears but if they get 20 or 30 letters maybe they will print something…[/QUOTE]
No problem. Believe it or not, the only reason I post the problems is that one day, we may have reputable racing at Penn National. One can always hope, right?
By the way, when the Bloodhorse gets a letter about Penn National, they roll their eyes. Trust me.
Charts and the Wagering Public
It would seem to me, that there are heavy players out there who would have a legitimate gripe, or even legal cause, to complain that the wagering interests of the public are NOT being protected by Penn National. IF pressure has been brought to bear on the caller, stewards et al, to omit performance results to protect Gill from scrutiny, then the wagering public has been deceived. Isn’t that a FEDERAL offense?
Really…if you were a serious bettor, and the chart said “pulled up”, or “eased " instead of " broke down and euthanized”, wouldn’t that affect your handicapping ?
Just askin
[QUOTE=Stellaspeed;4648050]
Really…if you were a serious bettor, and the chart said “pulled up”, or “eased " instead of " broke down and euthanized”, wouldn’t that affect your handicapping ?
Just askin[/QUOTE]
No, it doesn’t matter to a handicapper. Why would it? If the horse is euthanized, it won’t run again so handicappers aren’t concerned about what his chart says. If you are thinking handicappers consider overall barn breakdown rates - what they actually look at is the rate of DNFs - the outcome of that DNF doesn’t matter when handicapping. This is not a handicapping issue.
Is there really a case of a chart reporting a horse as “eased” when in fact it broke down and was euthanized on the track?
[QUOTE=SleepyFox;4649039]
Is there really a case of a chart reporting a horse as “eased” when in fact it broke down and was euthanized on the track?[/QUOTE]
Not that I can remember. The problem is the chart caller using “Pulled Up” “Went Lame” “Fell” instead of broke down. The other major problem was they weren’t reporting vanned off horses after the finish and they rarely if ever report horses who visibly bled (which is important to the cappers).
Stats
Thanks DH, that’s the point I was trying to make . It IS relevant handicapping information, if you can calculate that after X number of starts for Gill, a horse will: be eased, pulled up, (insert whatever) etc, and then disappear . Or, that after being vanned off, is patched up for maybe 1 or 2 more starts before being eased, pulled up,falling, etc.
I bounced this off of someone who teaches handicapping and is pretty well informed in the industry, and their opinion is that it indeed would matter as a handicapping factor…not just regarding the Gill entry, but how that would affect the other horses in the race. Which is exactly what the jocks are worried about.
Just wondering as well, how many sound horses have also hit the dirt as a result of a Gill horse going down ?
As an owner, or as another trainer, I would want that information available to me .
[QUOTE=Stellaspeed;4649292]
Thanks DH, that’s the point I was trying to make . It IS relevant handicapping information, if you can calculate that after X number of starts for Gill, a horse will: be eased, pulled up, (insert whatever) etc, and then disappear . Or, that after being vanned off, is patched up for maybe 1 or 2 more starts before being eased, pulled up,falling, etc. [/QUOTE]
Actually, you asked:
Really…if you were a serious bettor, and the chart said “pulled up”, or “eased " instead of " broke down and euthanized”, wouldn’t that affect your handicapping ?
I agree with the idea that a horse not finishing is relevant handicapping information. However, whether the chart reads “euthanized” or “pulled up” does not matter in terms of handicapping.
As far as how the players feel about Gill’s stock - from what I’ve seen they tend to go off at fairly short odds. I don’t think the gamblers are showing a lack of confidence in his horses’ ability to finish the race.
Sheesh. This thread spurred me to go back and review all the chart comments on my boy who spent some time at Penn. (A goodly share of “used up, faded, and eased”, in case anybody is wondering. At least he was consistent. :no: )
Bled is my usual conclusion when I see a horse who was in contention then suddenly “stopped”.
I’ve always thought some of the standard chart comments were purposely a bit cryptic to the lay person; not just at Penn but everywhere. Racing isn’t exactly known for its transparency. :rolleyes:
“DRIVING”
DRIVES me crazy !!!
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