Right, but what about her behaviour here? Did she not come on here promising one thing and then actually do the opposite all while saying that no one should discuss this openly?
If so, that’s extremely dishonest of her.
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If I look at the Facebook page for the show series, it looks like the venue is being shared with people who ask by providing the street name rather than calling it by its name. If they are doing these things to try to hide an association with a banned person, then that’s shameful.
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I don’t know her well enough to say she’s dishonest, but I’m not surprised by the show going forward in the least, based on what I learned about her. I did find that she had something of a record herself, which seems to be a common thread between those associated with TN.
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I posted something on the LTD FB page asking how shows at this location could be conceived as SS-compliant considering the Navarro connection. My post was deleted by LTD within five minutes.
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That’s certainly telling.
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As of this message, the LTD website currently lists the location as ‘TBD’ on the home page and does not mention any sort of location anywhere else on it.
However on the Facebook page, all their upcoming events are listed as being at “The Stables at Wulf Crest Farm” address.
On November 8th there is a post announcing the Winter Series, that they have a new venue, the dates for the respective shows, that they are ‘Safe sport Educated & Compliant’ and the address under ‘Wulf Crest Stables’. In the comment section they also list the address under ‘Wulf Crest Stables’ when asked.
On November 17th there is a separate Facebook post announcing that the first show will be in January, instead of the original November/December start. In that post’s comment section, there is a request for clarification on the location, and they (the LTD Horse Shows account) only reply with the street name, the town/state and the former name of the aforementioned facility.
By changing the way they present the information and deleting the comments that were questioning the connection (as people on this thread previously mentioned), this does come across as dubious.
I can somewhat understand the position of not wanting to have an off putting (yet related) topic put in the public comment section, but unless they either addressed the concern privately or make an ‘official’ statement on it to clarify, it just raises more concern and leaves a bad impression.
Something that came to mind with this particular show series is that they are not listed as recognized by the Virginia Horse Show Association (which is a member of the U.S. Equestrian Federation, who is the main enforcer of Safe Sport in the equestrian spaces) or any other association for that matter, and if I recall correctly, there used to be a sentence on the VHSA website, specifically on the associate show calendar page, emphasizing that the ‘LTD Horse Shows are NOT VHSA recognized’ or something to that effect, which I interpreted as the show had advertised themselves as recognized when they weren’t, but it could’ve just been a misunderstanding. Simply put, there might already be a bit of a less than stellar reputation in the show’s management.
The ‘Safe Sport Educated and Compliant’ flag that the show is waving may be a bit sardonic with all the unconfirmed suspicions, but I guess my main uncertainty about any actual rules being broken by the show is that it is not recognized by anything related to USEF, and I’m not sure if Safe Sport has any jurisdiction past that.
Although it was good to hear that Beverly (who also isn’t recognized to my knowledge), from what I gather from this thread, handled it in a timely, elegant manner.
Perhaps these sorts of attempts to undermine the Safe Sport safety measures at the local level come down to the individual show/barn managements. Not that it isn’t morally pathetic, just that no one can get in any real trouble for breaking rules that they don’t play by.
From personal experience and from the stories and information that was shared, it just appears that this circle of people have some distasteful histories regarding children or otherwise, and sometimes a lack of judgment, compassion and ethics both in relation to horses and outside of it, and aren’t exactly stellar equestrian role models on their best day. Most likely the best/most effective course of action is to not support any of their ventures, and give a heads up to people considering partaking in any of the shows, taking lessons, etc. so they can make an informed decision.
As a side note, I think the discussion of this barn and show series in particular is completely relevant to the topic at hand, as one of the great perks of Safe Sport is that they publish a list of those that are known to have some distasteful records so that people (particularly parents of children) can choose to avoid them and anywhere they may be.
By establishing a new business at a new address and not mentioning the names of the banned people who may be involved, they are more easily able to offer things that involve children such as a show series at their facility or an IEA team without it getting questioned as much. If that isn’t undermining Safe Sport, I’m not sure what is.
So pretending to be an outsider, revealing yourself to be part of the show management in question and then chastising people for discussing it while simultaneously not being very helpful at answering or dodging related questions and concerns, maybe even going back on your word about change of venue, is just a little silly in my opinion.
Everything else aside, I do hope everything works out for the show series and it’s just some unfortunate confusions (venue changes could take time, I would understand that).
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Thank you for the synopsis. I hope that anyone local that knows anyone who is considering showing in this series will take notice and have the necessary discussions with their friends and neighbors, especially those who have children.
How many more kids will be hurt until people take these matters seriously? It’s time for horse people to stop accepting this and be basically decent. Not that hard.
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Ok. Noted. I’ll be sure to take your advice into consideration. And…. Moving right along! (You should probably do the same.)
This is big news. It looks like USA Gymnastics will survive as the NGB.
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Should they?
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I think this discussion brings to light the gaping hole in safe sport as it pertains to equestrian. I feel comfortable saying that I the majority of children who go to shows are going to schooling and non-affiliated barn shows. They fall through the cracks as far as I can tell. I brought up the VHSA a while back when we first started discussing this series because the stables web site page for the shows, at the time, listed VHSA affiliated classes, perhaps an Eq class, in their class descriptions. They were not offered in the show class list. I asked then if they were affiliated.
big gaping hole that seems to evade protections. Dont know if SS has ever faced or answered these questions or if they even would have jurisdiction over a venue event like this
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the gaps exist in other sports as well. Like in Martial Arts, most practitioners are nowhere on the radar for international/Olympic competition, and the vast majority are minors.
Due to the size of the US travel is impossible to avoid (and also due to US paricularities, parental superviosion is far from guaranteed)
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They should not.
Governing bodies should have to compete for the position. Too many get corrupted by humans greed or criminal acts.
To my mind, it should have been over for gymnastics, skating and equestrian once the allegations came to be true.
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“…the gaps exist in other sports as well. Like in Martial Arts, most practitioners are nowhere on the radar for international/Olympic competition, and the vast majority are minors…”
it isnt about being on the radar for international competition. An event held under the umbrella of the national federation is subject to the SS rules, even a low hunter round or flat novice Eq. I dont know a lot about martial arts but if there is a system of accomplishment ranking ( belts in judo for instance) isnt there a federation that oversees that even on the club level?
If you look at the suspension list for sports equestrian is not on the leader board for suspensions. Soccer Swimming and Skating seem to lead the pack. Bowling is surprisingly a well policed sport and not even Olympic. Looks like they have almost as many suspensions as equestrian
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Just remember that when it comes to child sex abuse in the equestrian world the upper echilon ALL KNEW.
They knew but accepted it as culture. No one wanted to challenge the top people. But they all knew. And they did NOTHING. And because they did nothing more kids were traumatized.
These people do not deserve to run a darn thing. The association shouldn’t be permitted to just get away with it.
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Thank you for being so bold to succinctly say exactly what needs to be said.
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@Knights_Mom you are correct. It is really a terrible situation that has been so systemic . extends into membership that turned a blind eye as well
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the point is that most of the sports do not report to Safe Sport. I would guess over 90% of Martial Arts don’t while the overwhelming majority of participants are children.
The problem, right! How to get around the organisation looking and regulating? I wonder if they have heard about Safe Sport past the TKD powerhouse getting suspended!
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No different than Penn State, no?
BUT WE ARE WINNING!!!
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I just read back through your original comments about VHSA when this first came up, that’s very odd that they would offer those classes on the Facebook but not the prize list. You’re so right about the massive hole and lower level child riders (and athletes in general) falling through the cracks aspect to all of this regarding schooling shows and other non affiliate events.
I guess it couldn’t necessarily hurt to send a note to Safe Sport/USEF and subsequently IEA at that point asking about this type of concern, they might know of some resources to look into. Worst case scenario it’s just a matter of, ‘sorry, nothing can be done’. I think I might go look into it.
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