People Attempting to Undermine Safe Sport

[Scribbler]

If you are, let’s say, married to a person who has been convicted of sexual abuse of a minor, and you want to participate in all ages events or volunteer around minors, etc., you are free to do so. All you need to do is leave him at home.. That’s very easily done. Honestly how many women actually have their significant others “cheering them on” at shows? Maybe a very lucky few. The rest are happy enough if husband goes off on his own weekend of hockey or golf or mudding or whatever and enjoys himself.

I am not going to say one way or another what any given woman should do if her husband is convicted of sex crimes, even ones against minors. Especially if those actions predate your relationship. But you have to realize that actions have consequences.

There was a big local case a few years back. Not horses, but an outdoor program connected to a high school in an upper middle class neighborhood. Back in the 1970s the two 20 something male teachers running this were working their way through a new batch of 16 year olds every year. Eventually one of the teachers married one of his students and moved on. Thirty years later, a bunch of the students came forward. I will need to Google the trial outcome. Definitely convicted, don’t recall sentencing. I often wondered how the wife felt (she was silent I think). Obviously they’d had a long and successful marriage, and a 45 year old woman with a fit outdoorsy 60 year old man would not turn any heads. I’m sure she was genuinely infatuated with him at 16, and I’m also sure he was a manipulative sex pest, a genre that was very very common back then.

Anyhow, I’m sure there are a certain number of trainer/ student marriages on similar lines.

[skydy]

@AlteredFaltered

I just want to say I read every post that gets added to these sorts of threads and it personally kills me a bit inside. As someone who has someone important in their life that would be apparently be crucified by the members of this forum I live life removed from the horse world in a way I don’t wish to be. I won’t join the organizations that require safe sport as I don’t know if my person just showing up to support me would result in someone that remembered the very public broadcasting of our life changing event and turn me in to the "authorities ". I literally live in fear of going to a horse event and being recognized.

Sorry @Old_Mac_Donald meant to reply to @AlteredFaltered.

Bolding mine. Apparently you @AlteredFaltered, need to either explain the circumstances if this was a sexual abuse case, or just admit that this was a victim’s “life changing event” as well, not just yours and whomever it is that you care about and has the issue that has them on the wrong side of Safe Sport.

We can’t know the circumstances and I guess you aren’t able to tell us. I’m sorry that you have the angst that most people do when someone they know has been caught up in a bad situation, but that is what it is.

I know that you, or your loved one or friend, would not be subjected to capital punishment here, so the crucifixion reference seems a bit over the top.

[Aussie_2020]

Whatever did your family member do? Were they a 20yo having sex with a 17yo girlfriend? The boyfriend girlfriend thing where one is a few years over 18 and the other is just under is the only case of sexual abuse that I don’t think is actually abuse. But my opinion is not the law.

Being close to the perpetrator can fog your vision to the problem. Have your considered some type of counseling to help you grasp the compete picture?

[Jenerationx]

@AlteredFaltered

And if no harm was actually done?

Neither you nor the offender get to say that “no harm was actually done.” Surviving sexual abuse can be a life sentence.

[vxf111]

I am so sorry to people whose spouses committed a sex crime against a child, that spouse was convicted, the person decided to stay in the relationship, and now that person is being impacted because their sex offender spouse cannot cheer them on at horse shows. These people are the real victims here, clearly. /s

[Knights_Mom]

@AlteredFaltered

You do realize recidivism rates for many of these crimes are very low after counseling and punitive jail time. That is the problem. The media and government agencies want to keep people afraid when the risks are small. The data is out there but they keep bringing new people to the front of the headlines to instill fear.

They are actually quite high. And counseling doesn’t usually work.

[Ghazzu]

@AlteredFaltered

The problem is if you do not cut people out of your life completely after something like this you become just as much as a pariah as the one who got into trouble with the law.

WRT SS, you just need to keep them away from horse shows. Cutting them out of your life or not is your choice.

[JanM]

When I lived in New Mexico years ago, it was the height of the pedophiles in the Catholic Church revelations. The head of the Paraclete Center, church operated and only treated priests for various issues. The head of the center was a psychiatrist, and he said the only pedos that never reoffended were the ones that were never around children again. The ones who went back to parish work always offended again.

[zany1]

This has, as nauseam, been proven to be false.

Per SMART, “researchers widely agree that observed recidivism rates are underestimates of the true reoffense rates of sex offenders.”

https://smart.ojp.gov/somapi/chapter-5-adult-sex-offender-recidivism

[Paint_Party]

@Ghazzu

WRT SS, you just need to keep them away from horse shows. Cutting them out of your life or not is your choice.

Indeed. As if the OP can’t wrangle up someone else to be their helper/groom/companion at a horse show other than someone who’s been held accountable by our “cut and dry” laws about sex offenders.

Sidenote: OP seems so tone deaf and intent on bashing SS that I almost wonder if the situation is for real. Then, on the other hand, I consider the buffet line of SS banned or suspended BNTs I knew, rode with, or rode for in my life and reconsider. There were so many of them for far, far too long. And that’s a sad statement, isn’t it?

[Tini_Sea_Soldier1]

Sadly it is now. You can literally be called out for it, which is sad, bc in the 80’s and 90’s, we didn’t bat an eye at it. Quite frankly, I dated seniors when I was freshman, some of them were turning or already 18. My parents didn’t care. Did they love it? Of course not, but 3-4 years age difference didn’t have them marching anyone down to the PD to make a police report, nor would they have had a fit if it happened at a horse show with a pro rider or such. I probably would have had a lecture about how their job and our relationship needed to be defined separately, but that would be about it. I certainly went to the prom with a senior when I was a sophomore and messed around with a few 19-21 year olds when I was still 16/17. What can I say? We were rowdy teenagers and our parents thought we were at the mall! Instead we were at frat parties and random meetups in the woods with other teens/early 20’s. In certain realms and by the letter of the law, messing around with them in today’s world, or if they were called out now for things back then, it could be considered a crime. These aren’t the predators that I want sat down. I want the ones that are 15-20-30 years older that are going after the minors. Those men aren’t nearly in the same age bracket and know better. They’re grooming parents, friends, and their victims. Yet, plenty of them still lurking around or have died with nary a peep about their skeletons in the closet. It’s shameful.

[Scribbler]

@Tini_Sea_Soldier1

Sadly it is now. You can literally be called out for it, which is sad, bc in the 80’s and 90’s, we didn’t bat an eye at it. Quite frankly, I dated seniors when I was freshman, some of them were turning or already 18. My parents didn’t care. Did they love it? Of course not, but 3-4 years age difference didn’t have them marching anyone down to the PD to make a police report, nor would they have had a fit if it happened at a horse show with a pro rider or such. I probably would have had a lecture about how their job and our relationship needed to be defined separately, but that would be about it. I certainly went to the prom with a senior when I was a sophomore and messed around with a few 19-21 year olds when I was still 16/17. What can I say? We were rowdy teenagers and our parents thought we were at the mall! Instead we were at frat parties and random meetups in the woods with other teens/early 20’s. In certain realms and by the letter of the law, messing around with them in today’s world, or if they were called out now for things back then, it could be considered a crime. These aren’t the predators that I want sat down. I want the ones that are 15-20-30 years older that are going after the minors. Those men aren’t nearly in the same age bracket and know better. They’re grooming parents, friends, and their victims. Yet, plenty of them still lurking around or have died with nary a peep about their skeletons in the closet. It’s shameful.

Yes, this was common in the 1970s too. But also the parents didn’t know the half of it. Either they didn’t know the girl was dating the dude in the first place, or she lied about his age to her mother, or the parents didn’t think the pair were actually having sex. I recall all three situations among my friends, but not first hand. I also recall hearing about one mother of someone I didn’t know who pursued statutory rape charges for her daughter’s 18 year old boyfriend. I believe he was native and the girl was not.

At the same time teachers in their 20s and maybe 30s were having affairs with students, in my high school, though it was much more hush hush until graduation.

I don’t think there are that many men on the sexual offenders registry for consensual high school relationships. A few, yes, especially among underprivileged groups that couldn’t afford lawyers. But it’s not that common. It isn’t the first thing I’d assume if someone says their spouse was involved in a high profile case that resulted in a SS ban.

[BeeHoney]

So, if I understand correctly, @AlteredFaltered, you have someone in your life who is a sex offender. And you carry enough shame over this person’s actions and the fact that you have kept them in your life that you find you are unable to live your life and enjoy going to horse shows and events because you feel that you might face public scorn and judgement for your connection to this person.

I think you are approaching this whole thing wrong. It is not society’s job to forgive and forget. Rather, it is your loved one’s job to take accountability of their actions, to make amends to society for the harm they have caused, and to take steps to ensure that they never repeat such behavior. Without knowing the details, it also sounds likely that they need to endure the inconvenience of not attending events and shows.

At the same time, it’s not a crime to care about or maintain a connection to a person who has a history of committing a sexual offense. You can care about someone at the same time as you condemn their past behavior and insist that they be accountable.

It’s not your job to make excuses, defend their actions, or to take up arms against Safe Sport in protest. That’s a really bad look. It would be much better to express sorrow for what happened and to admit that your loved one will have to spend the rest of his life regretting and taking accountability for what happened. And to express awareness and empathy for anyone who might have been affected by his behavior.

It’s also not your job to punish your loved one–or to punish yourself with shame and isolation for loving them. Unless you were involved in the offense that was committed, you deserve to live your life and go to your horse shows and events. It sounds to me like you are carrying a lot of this other person’s shame, and it’s not yours to carry.

[Tini_Sea_Soldier1]

I don’t know… there’s literally a 24 yr old on the SafeSport list currently. So I think it happens more than you think, and not only to the less fortunate.

[Scribbler]

@Tini_Sea_Soldier1

I don’t know… there’s literally a 24 yr old on the SafeSport list currently. So I think it happens more than you think, and not only to the less fortunate.

There is a big difference when someone is in a position of authority. Teacher coach etc. Also a young person could have committed a crime of sexual violence. Both these are different from consensual relationships with essentially peers, like all high school students.

[Midge]

Obviously, I don’t know the specifics of the case you mention, but you say that like a young person cannot be a rapist. Hello, Brock Turner?

[MHM]

And a zillion others who are not as famous. Or infamous.

[Limitless]

I gotta say, sometimes I read stuff on this forum that blows my mind!

And then I see that COTH has published an article written by Shelley Campf…and those pieces of my mind also explode!

[Knights_Mom]

@JanM

When I lived in New Mexico years ago, it was the height of the pedophiles in the Catholic Church revelations. The head of the Paraclete Center, church operated and only treated priests for various issues. The head of the center was a psychiatrist, and he said the only pedos that never reoffended were the ones that were never around children again. The ones who went back to parish work always offended again.

Recidivism is so high with child molesters there is an assumption molestation will occur again. That’s why courts order supervised visitation if there’s to be visitation at all.

[wanderlust]

That is quite the assumptive leap to determine that a 24yo is on there for otherwise consensual sex with an older minor.

How do you have any idea it wasn’t actual rape or assault or coercion or grooming? What if the victim was a 12 year old boy or girl? Or even 14 or 16, both of which are still way way too young to be involved with drinking age+ adult men.