I love how they conflate “intentionally” (in the SafeSport update) and “incidentally” (in AfE’s hypothetical overhearing-a-joke case) exposing minors to sexual situations. Because, hey, they start with the same letter, so they’re the same, right?
12 Likes
Not sure if this counts but when I was learner judging a fairly BNJ showed me pics of his SO’s “member” I mean I am a woman and hes a gay man so thats not harrassment right?? (seriously, it would be my word against his as I didn’t record the incident at the time, 2010)
Sadly, that’s actually pretty normalized and acceptable behavior among gay/bi/queer/whatever beings in and around the horse industry. That’s why you’ll see many of the professionals and rail-birds - like Tom Keogh was - from that “Out & About” social scene surrounding the show circuits marching in lock-step with AFE and supporting them with donations or name attachment. Though most of the focus thus far has been on opposite sex incidents involving young women and older men, there’s a growing number of LGBTQ cases being reported to SafeSport that are in the mold of what GM was said to have done for years - targeting and exploiting at-risk/emotionally vulnerable youth and young adults - and it’s going to get very uncomfortable for the core AFE crowd if there are more prominent industry names from their side being taken down by SafeSport. Based on my own digging into who is who and what their personal and professional lives have been, that seems to be a prominent motivation behind quite a bit of the wagon hitching and drum beating with AFE.
6 Likes
I am trying not to read too much into what you said… but just in case…This is NOT “normalized and acceptable behavior” among gays. Its perverted behavior, just as it is with straight people. The rules are the same for straight and gay people and they always have been. Another reason SafeSport has been needed for so long.
21 Likes
Excuse me, but you are full of sh!t.
Gender and sexual orientation have zero to do with being a sexual predator. Straight men are the main members of the predator club, and quite well represented in the equestrian world. The rules of decency are the same in the LBGQ world as in the straight world.
Your ignorance is showing.
17 Likes
Interesting story in the New York Times about a tennis coach and serial abuser of young men. Apparently he was outed more than once, and was prosecuted in 2010, but the court case ended in a mistrial. In spite of the repeated accusations, USTA did nothing to prevent him from moving on to coach at a new school or club.
Reminiscent of the ISWG group, he was able to muster many supporters:
“He was fired from the school, and his teaching credentials were revoked, but a large and vociferous band of tennis players and their parents rallied around him. They swarmed court hearings and public meetings, unnerving witnesses, Lori E. Frugoli, who prosecuted the case and is now Marin’s district attorney, recalled during an interview at her office. Supporters also raised at least $15,000 for his legal expenses, parents said.”
2 Likes
While true, I think men are more inclined to ask for, send even when not asked for and show those types of pictures. It really has nothing to do with sexuality.
5 Likes
What the fruitbat!?!?? Thar’s just weird in the workplace.
3 Likes
It was extremely weird. The judges boxes were extremely small as well, so it’s not like I could say ew and move away
1 Like
Perhaps you are speaking about what is the norm, and accepted by a certain clique in the horse show community?
Because that has not been my experience. Granted, I haven’t been in H/J land for a long time. When I was, none of the gay men that I knew in that world would ever have done that.
The gay men that I know now, don’t do that. :no:
The only time I have ever been exposed to a “member” photo was when Brett Favre was in trouble for sending a photo of his most personal bits, over the phone, to a woman that was not his wife. Who the hell does that? (apparently some football players do).
I clicked on the article and lo and behold there was the photo. Jeeze you’d think they’d have to warn you. I had no interest in seeing that.
The “Athletes For Equity in Sport” group’s whining about these terrible restrictions preventing USEF adults from intentionally showing minors pornography, or having sexual discussions within their hearing, is really disgusting. I hope that Katie has some friends that will give her a good yank back to reality. Or maybe she is a horrible person. I don’t know her. I just hoped for better. :mad:
11 Likes
Today’s AfE email:
[h=4]Dear AES members,
Athletes for Equity in Sport is gaining momentum towards effecting equity in legislation that is pending in Washington DC. Through our lobbyist efforts with The Sheridan Group, we are understanding alliances and gaining support toward justice in the Center for SafeSport procedures.
Here is an article of interest from the Pulitzer Center.[/h] [removed stock photo]
[h=1]Three Years on, Center for SafeSport Faces Controversy[/h] April 22, 2020 | Pulitzer Center
BY GRACE KIER
Three years after it formed with the promise of protecting young athletes from sexual abuse, the United States Center for SafeSport is facing increased criticism from individuals in sports due to its process of investigating and banning athletes from Olympic sports.
The organization, created in 2017 to address abuse in sport, in particular forms of sexual abuse, was supposed to ease worries about athlete safety. Dedicated to protecting athletes and federally authorized by Congress, the nonprofit initially was touted as a positive way to improve safety and address the significant problems facing many U.S. Olympic sports, most publicly gymnastics.
Earlier that year, Larry Nassar, who had previously worked as a doctor with gymnasts and other athletes, was convicted of federal child pornography charges and state criminal sexual conduct charges. Hundreds of his victims—including Olympic medalists—delivered impact statements in court, describing the abuse they endured under his care as a doctor and in personal settings.
As a result of his convictions, Nassar will spend the rest of his life in prison. While the trial led to Nasser’s imprisonment, it also shed light on an environment that allowed abuse to happen even as athletes succeeded at the highest levels.
SafeSport was established in the midst of this trial, in March 2017. In responding to allegations of abuse, however, it has faced a backlash from the supporters of banned athletes, coaches, and attorneys who believe that the organization operates outside of the justice system and does not provide adequate due process to the accused. This pushback has clouded the organization as it works to effectively carry out its mission of protecting athletes from abuse.
“In my view, SafeSport was never intended to actually do what [the United States Olympic Committee] says that it is meant to do,” says Sarah Klein, an attorney who has represented clients in cases against abusive coaches. Klein, a former gymnast, was a victim of Nassar and accepted the Arthur Ashe Courage Award on behalf of herself and other survivors of Nassar.
The Center for SafeSport was chartered by the United States Olympic and Paralympic Committee (USOPC). The USOPC oversees Olympic and Paralympic sports and is the National Organizing Committee for these sports in the United States. The USOPC created the Center as an independent body to investigate and enforce the SafeSport Code. This is the code of conduct that outlines appropriate behavior in all U.S. Olympic sporting bodies, such as interactions between coaches and athletes and appropriate team behavior.
The Center was meant to streamline the reporting and investigatory process within USOPC sports, and to standardize the SafeSport Code for all participants across all sports. Further, SafeSport was tasked with educating and conducting outreach with the community to prevent abuse, which has included creating education and training materials.
The Center also has received the support of the federal government, as the U.S. Congress passed the bipartisan Protecting Young Victims from Sexual Abuse and Safe Sport Authorization Act of 2017. The Act grants the Center with exclusive jurisdiction to address reports of abuse within the USOPC and the National Governing Bodies (NGBs) of Olympic sports, meaning that the Center is the only body responsible for deciding whether or not an individual is eligible to participate in sport. The NGBs are required to comply with the Center’s decisions in order to continue their status as a sports implementer.
“There are growing pains, which every organization experiences. It takes time and energy to create a great program,” says Abby Howard, Associate Counsel and Director of Safe Sport at USA Swimming, one of the NGBs. “[SafeSport] is the next step forward, and we will support it and will make every effort to make sure it succeeds.”
Anyone can make a report to SafeSport via phone or their website. The Center handles cases that involve USOPC sports and violations of the SafeSport code. Although the Center focuses on sexual abuse cases, it may handle emotional and/or physical abuse cases or work with the NGBs to resolve them.
After reporting, the case may be referred for a formal investigation which can result in an official SafeSport sanction. These sanctions can take many different forms, including a lifetime ban from the relevant sport. Sanctioned individuals may pursue arbitration, but the decision of the designated SafeSport arbitrators is final and cannot be appealed by either the sanctioned individual or the Center.
The Center maintains the Centralized Disciplinary Database of sanctioned individuals, which is available on its website. As of February 2020, the Center had received almost 5,000 reports from the time it opened in March 2017 and has sanctioned 627 individuals. It is unclear in particular public informational materials, such as congressional testimony, how many of those individuals were banned for sexual abuse and how many were banned for other infractions of the Code, such as bullying or hazing. However, it is possible to see specific reasons for bans on the national database.
SafeSport is able to investigate cases that would otherwise be closed because the Center is not bound by statutes of limitations. Avery Gahagan, a Canadian who works in the equestrian community, views the Center as a positive step forward especially because of its ability to investigate older cases.
“SafeSport is a system and structure designed to bring some accountability to acts that are no longer possible to go through the courts,” she says.
The mission of the Center has received widespread support, given its focus on stopping the abuse. The problems, however, lie in how the Center carries out investigations, as many details of investigations are kept private in order to protect the anonymity of accusers. The limited amount of publicly-available information about SafeSport investigations has resulted in accusations of a lack of due process afforded to accused individuals.
Despite this criticism, Center for SafeSport CEO Ju’Riese Colón described during a February 2020 Senate hearing some of the measures in place to ensure that the accused are protected. “The Center also has multiple internal safeguards in place before any person is sanctioned or suspended," Colón said. “For instance, we guarantee hearings on temporary suspensions within 72 hours, if a Respondent requests, so that those individuals who think we got it wrong can challenge our decision before an independent arbitrator.”
Criticism of the Center has become particularly heated in equestrian sports, where the backlash has come from defenders of the banned athletes and coaches. A beloved and celebrated champion of the sport, George Morris, was permanently banned by the Center in 2019 due to his alleged abuse of young equestrians during his coaching career. Morris was initially banned in August 2019 after the Center concluded an investigation about Morris’s conduct.
Details of the investigation were kept private in order to protect the anonymity of Morris’s accusers. Afterwards, Morris requested an arbitration. It was conducted before an independent arbitrator who upheld the ban.
The response was quick and furious. A Facebook group called I STAND WITH GEORGE was created in August for supporters of Morris. As of March 2020, the group has almost 8,000 members who share articles about Morris and express their individual support for the equestrian.
One member of the group, Diane Carney, has taken steps beyond the Facebook page to address what she perceives as SafeSport’s shortcomings. Carney, herself an avid equestrian, is the President of Athletes for Equity in Sport, a group whose mission is to ensure that every participant in a SafeSport investigation is treated fairly.
“Athletes for Equity in Sport believes in the intent of SafeSport, but urgently demands due process in their procedure,” says Carney. Despite the organization’s focus on due process, Carney insists that Athletes for Equity supports the mission of SafeSport, “Yes of course, abuse should be dealt with, no one should be against SafeSport… What we want is a stronger, better SafeSport.”
Not all of the criticism against the Center has come from defenders of the accused such as Carney. Some is coming from those who think the organization is not doing enough to protect victims, including attorneys like Klein. She believes that the Center “was a marketing response to a rampant sexual abuse problem that the [USOPC] wanted to ignore. There was never any authentic intention for it to be something that regulates safety in sport. It was a reactive creation. When the [USOPC] and the NGBs saw the train coming for them, they created this farce of an entity.”
Other criticism comes from those who think the Center is unable to complete its mandate and effectively protect victims.
“Either SafeSport is a puppet of the [USOPC] and they do what the [USOPC] wants them to do and make sure they protect our coach system, or SafeSport is fairly incompetent. I tend to believe that they’re just a new organization,” says Stephen Estey, an attorney who represents women who have accused Tae Kwon Do athletes and coaches of abuse.
On this point, Colón said in the hearing that “there is still much work to be done.” She points to an expanded Response and Resolution team as well as the tripling of the size of the audit and compliance team, as measures the Center has taken “to meet the growing needs of our athletes, and the rapid growing caseload.” Colón notes that the Center started with only one staff investigator, but also only received 39 reports a month, a small fraction of the 200 plus reports it currently receives on a monthly basis.
Although Klein and Estey disagree on the exact nature of SafeSport’s perceived inadequacy, they agree that proceedings related to SafeSport issues should be handled by law enforcement and in a court of law.
“The biggest problem I see with SafeSport is that, when there’s an allegation of sexual abuse, it should go to the trained, third-party professionals, which is the police,” says Estey. “The police have detectives who are specially trained how to investigate allegations of sexual assault, sexual abuse, and there are techniques that you need to employ when you’re dealing with victims of sexual assault, sexual abuse because the victims, the survivors, are often-times confused, they feel ashamed, they blame themselves and unless you’re trauma-informed and trained in this area, you’re not going to do an effective job.”
Klein expressed a similar sentiment. “They’re not a court of law. They want to operate as though they’re a court of law. I really don’t understand the purpose.”
However, Colón lauded the investigative staff of the Center in her testimony. “We pride ourselves on conducting thorough, neutral, trauma-informed, and unbiased investigations. Our investigative staff includes retired FBI and NCIS agents, retired sex crimes detectives, former JAG prosecutors, former public defenders, a former federal administrative law judge, and child protective services investigators, many of whom have spent their entire careers investigating sexual abuse”
Despite the criticism of the Center, not all responses have been negative, with some individuals like Avery Gahagan, a Canadian who works in the equestrian community, defending the Center’s actions thus far. Gahagan is an in-gate manager who is essentially the “air-traffic controller of horse shows.” She is responsible for smoothly planning and executing the different events in horse shows by organizing time schedules and directing participants to their locations at specified times.
In August, Gahagan wrote an op-ed in The Chronicle of the Horse titled “Enough: A SafeSport Perspective from the In-Gate” in which she expressed her disappointment at the criticism against the Center from within the equestrian community.
In an interview, Gahagan discussed the culture of inappropriate behavior in equestrian sports. At a horse show, “a male trainer came up to me and he said that [someone] in our sport told me that I couldn’t give a girl a leg up onto the horse anymore.” Giving a leg up, to help someone onto a horse, is a common practice. But, Gahagan continues, “with barely a beat, finishing that sentence, [he said] I’m still mad I’m not allowed to give them a pat on the ass for good luck.”
In addition to discussing this culture, Gahagan expressed her frustration with SafeSport’s perception. In particular, she was surprised by the number of people who have criticized SafeSport’s perceived lack of due process. In Gahagan’s eyes, the Center’s role is as an enforcer of a private code of conduct, not necessarily akin to a court of law.
“There is a general misunderstanding about how the system is designed to work… I was sort of startled by the number of people who seemed to misunderstand a court of law and a private club,” she says. “But no one is owed membership to a private institution.”
Carney acknowledges that sport participation is technically akin to participating in a private club, and that SafeSport is enforcing the rules of that club. However, she thinks that—given the stakes—this explanation is not strong enough to justify the Center’s actions.
“This issue is so serious and so important,” she says. “When you’re talking about people’s lives, I think you ought to have something better than codes… In America, we can do better.”
I tried posting the latest AfE update and it is “unapproved”. Trying again and removing the links:
[h=4]Dear AES members,
Athletes for Equity in Sport is gaining momentum towards effecting equity in legislation that is pending in Washington DC. Through our lobbyist efforts with The Sheridan Group, we are understanding alliances and gaining support toward justice in the Center for SafeSport procedures.
Here is an article of interest from the Pulitzer Center.[/h] [h=1]Three Years on, Center for SafeSport Faces Controversy[/h] April 22, 2020
BY
GRACE KIER
Three years after it formed with the promise of protecting young athletes from sexual abuse, the United States Center for SafeSport is facing increased criticism from individuals in sports due to its process of investigating and banning athletes from Olympic sports.
The organization, created in 2017 to address abuse in sport, in particular forms of sexual abuse, was supposed to ease worries about athlete safety. Dedicated to protecting athletes and federally authorized by Congress, the nonprofit initially was touted as a positive way to improve safety and address the significant problems facing many U.S. Olympic sports, most publicly gymnastics.
Earlier that year, Larry Nassar, who had previously worked as a doctor with gymnasts and other athletes, was convicted of federal child pornography charges and state criminal sexual conduct charges. Hundreds of his victims—including Olympic medalists—delivered impact statements in court, describing the abuse they endured under his care as a doctor and in personal settings.
As a result of his convictions, Nassar will spend the rest of his life in prison. While the trial led to Nasser’s imprisonment, it also shed light on an environment that allowed abuse to happen even as athletes succeeded at the highest levels.
SafeSport was established in the midst of this trial, in March 2017. In responding to allegations of abuse, however, it has faced a backlash from the supporters of banned athletes, coaches, and attorneys who believe that the organization operates outside of the justice system and does not provide adequate due process to the accused. This pushback has clouded the organization as it works to effectively carry out its mission of protecting athletes from abuse.
“In my view, SafeSport was never intended to actually do what [the United States Olympic Committee] says that it is meant to do,” says Sarah Klein, an attorney who has represented clients in cases against abusive coaches. Klein, a former gymnast, was a victim of Nassar and accepted the Arthur Ashe Courage Award on behalf of herself and other survivors of Nassar.
The Center for SafeSport was chartered by the United States Olympic and Paralympic Committee (USOPC). The USOPC oversees Olympic and Paralympic sports and is the National Organizing Committee for these sports in the United States. The USOPC created the Center as an independent body to investigate and enforce the SafeSport Code. This is the code of conduct that outlines appropriate behavior in all U.S. Olympic sporting bodies, such as interactions between coaches and athletes and appropriate team behavior.
The Center was meant to streamline the reporting and investigatory process within USOPC sports, and to standardize the SafeSport Code for all participants across all sports. Further, SafeSport was tasked with educating and conducting outreach with the community to prevent abuse, which has included creating education and training materials.
The Center also has received the support of the federal government, as the U.S. Congress passed the bipartisan Protecting Young Victims from Sexual Abuse and Safe Sport Authorization Act of 2017. The Act grants the Center with exclusive jurisdiction to address reports of abuse within the USOPC and the National Governing Bodies (NGBs) of Olympic sports, meaning that the Center is the only body responsible for deciding whether or not an individual is eligible to participate in sport. The NGBs are required to comply with the Center’s decisions in order to continue their status as a sports implementer.
“There are growing pains, which every organization experiences. It takes time and energy to create a great program,” says Abby Howard, Associate Counsel and Director of Safe Sport at USA Swimming, one of the NGBs. “[SafeSport] is the next step forward, and we will support it and will make every effort to make sure it succeeds.”
Anyone can make a report to SafeSport via phone or their website. The Center handles cases that involve USOPC sports and violations of the SafeSport code. Although the Center focuses on sexual abuse cases, it may handle emotional and/or physical abuse cases or work with the NGBs to resolve them.
After reporting, the case may be referred for a formal investigation which can result in an official SafeSport sanction. These sanctions can take many different forms, including a lifetime ban from the relevant sport. Sanctioned individuals may pursue arbitration, but the decision of the designated SafeSport arbitrators is final and cannot be appealed by either the sanctioned individual or the Center.
The Center maintains the Centralized Disciplinary Database of sanctioned individuals, which is available on its website. As of February 2020, the Center had received almost 5,000 reports from the time it opened in March 2017 and has sanctioned 627 individuals. It is unclear in particular public informational materials, such as congressional testimony, how many of those individuals were banned for sexual abuse and how many were banned for other infractions of the Code, such as bullying or hazing. However, it is possible to see specific reasons for bans on the national database.
SafeSport is able to investigate cases that would otherwise be closed because the Center is not bound by statutes of limitations. Avery Gahagan, a Canadian who works in the equestrian community, views the Center as a positive step forward especially because of its ability to investigate older cases.
“SafeSport is a system and structure designed to bring some accountability to acts that are no longer possible to go through the courts,” she says.
The mission of the Center has received widespread support, given its focus on stopping the abuse. The problems, however, lie in how the Center carries out investigations, as many details of investigations are kept private in order to protect the anonymity of accusers. The limited amount of publicly-available information about SafeSport investigations has resulted in accusations of a lack of due process afforded to accused individuals.
Despite this criticism, Center for SafeSport CEO Ju’Riese Colón described during a February 2020 Senate hearing some of the measures in place to ensure that the accused are protected. “The Center also has multiple internal safeguards in place before any person is sanctioned or suspended," Colón said. “For instance, we guarantee hearings on temporary suspensions within 72 hours, if a Respondent requests, so that those individuals who think we got it wrong can challenge our decision before an independent arbitrator.”
Criticism of the Center has become particularly heated in equestrian sports, where the backlash has come from defenders of the banned athletes and coaches. A beloved and celebrated champion of the sport, George Morris, was permanently banned by the Center in 2019 due to his alleged abuse of young equestrians during his coaching career. Morris was initially banned in August 2019 after the Center concluded an investigation about Morris’s conduct.
Details of the investigation were kept private in order to protect the anonymity of Morris’s accusers. Afterwards, Morris requested an arbitration. It was conducted before an independent arbitrator who upheld the ban.
The response was quick and furious. A Facebook group called I STAND WITH GEORGE was created in August for supporters of Morris. As of March 2020, the group has almost 8,000 members who share articles about Morris and express their individual support for the equestrian.
One member of the group, Diane Carney, has taken steps beyond the Facebook page to address what she perceives as SafeSport’s shortcomings. Carney, herself an avid equestrian, is the President of Athletes for Equity in Sport, a group whose mission is to ensure that every participant in a SafeSport investigation is treated fairly.
“Athletes for Equity in Sport believes in the intent of SafeSport, but urgently demands due process in their procedure,” says Carney. Despite the organization’s focus on due process, Carney insists that Athletes for Equity supports the mission of SafeSport, “Yes of course, abuse should be dealt with, no one should be against SafeSport… What we want is a stronger, better SafeSport.”
Not all of the criticism against the Center has come from defenders of the accused such as Carney. Some is coming from those who think the organization is not doing enough to protect victims, including attorneys like Klein. She believes that the Center “was a marketing response to a rampant sexual abuse problem that the [USOPC] wanted to ignore. There was never any authentic intention for it to be something that regulates safety in sport. It was a reactive creation. When the [USOPC] and the NGBs saw the train coming for them, they created this farce of an entity.”
Other criticism comes from those who think the Center is unable to complete its mandate and effectively protect victims.
“Either SafeSport is a puppet of the [USOPC] and they do what the [USOPC] wants them to do and make sure they protect our coach system, or SafeSport is fairly incompetent. I tend to believe that they’re just a new organization,” says Stephen Estey, an attorney who represents women who have accused Tae Kwon Do athletes and coaches of abuse.
On this point, Colón said in the hearing that “there is still much work to be done.” She points to an expanded Response and Resolution team as well as the tripling of the size of the audit and compliance team, as measures the Center has taken “to meet the growing needs of our athletes, and the rapid growing caseload.” Colón notes that the Center started with only one staff investigator, but also only received 39 reports a month, a small fraction of the 200 plus reports it currently receives on a monthly basis.
Although Klein and Estey disagree on the exact nature of SafeSport’s perceived inadequacy, they agree that proceedings related to SafeSport issues should be handled by law enforcement and in a court of law.
“The biggest problem I see with SafeSport is that, when there’s an allegation of sexual abuse, it should go to the trained, third-party professionals, which is the police,” says Estey. “The police have detectives who are specially trained how to investigate allegations of sexual assault, sexual abuse, and there are techniques that you need to employ when you’re dealing with victims of sexual assault, sexual abuse because the victims, the survivors, are often-times confused, they feel ashamed, they blame themselves and unless you’re trauma-informed and trained in this area, you’re not going to do an effective job.”
Klein expressed a similar sentiment. “They’re not a court of law. They want to operate as though they’re a court of law. I really don’t understand the purpose.”
However, Colón lauded the investigative staff of the Center in her testimony. “We pride ourselves on conducting thorough, neutral, trauma-informed, and unbiased investigations. Our investigative staff includes retired FBI and NCIS agents, retired sex crimes detectives, former JAG prosecutors, former public defenders, a former federal administrative law judge, and child protective services investigators, many of whom have spent their entire careers investigating sexual abuse”
Despite the criticism of the Center, not all responses have been negative, with some individuals like Avery Gahagan, a Canadian who works in the equestrian community, defending the Center’s actions thus far. Gahagan is an in-gate manager who is essentially the “air-traffic controller of horse shows.” She is responsible for smoothly planning and executing the different events in horse shows by organizing time schedules and directing participants to their locations at specified times.
In August, Gahagan wrote an op-ed in The Chronicle of the Horse titled “Enough: A SafeSport Perspective from the In-Gate” in which she expressed her disappointment at the criticism against the Center from within the equestrian community.
In an interview, Gahagan discussed the culture of inappropriate behavior in equestrian sports. At a horse show, “a male trainer came up to me and he said that [someone] in our sport told me that I couldn’t give a girl a leg up onto the horse anymore.” Giving a leg up, to help someone onto a horse, is a common practice. But, Gahagan continues, “with barely a beat, finishing that sentence, [he said] I’m still mad I’m not allowed to give them a pat on the ass for good luck.”
In addition to discussing this culture, Gahagan expressed her frustration with SafeSport’s perception. In particular, she was surprised by the number of people who have criticized SafeSport’s perceived lack of due process. In Gahagan’s eyes, the Center’s role is as an enforcer of a private code of conduct, not necessarily akin to a court of law.
“There is a general misunderstanding about how the system is designed to work… I was sort of startled by the number of people who seemed to misunderstand a court of law and a private club,” she says. “But no one is owed membership to a private institution.”
Carney acknowledges that sport participation is technically akin to participating in a private club, and that SafeSport is enforcing the rules of that club. However, she thinks that—given the stakes—this explanation is not strong enough to justify the Center’s actions.
“This issue is so serious and so important,” she says. “When you’re talking about people’s lives, I think you ought to have something better than codes… In America, we can do better.”
1 Like
It’s awesome how they just keep saying the same garbage without ever learning anything at all and being wildly misleading and disingenuous.
JuST gO to THE pOLicE?!
And yes, I’m sure absolutely important people in DC are just hot to trot to get out there defending predators who commit forcible sodomy on children. Like, cant wait to get in front of a camera to proclaim the right of super special sport pet trainers to rape children.
20 Likes
Diane Carney “given the stakes” :lol::lol: my god, completely insane.
9 Likes
Thanks for updating the thread with the “latest and greatest” from AFE.
I do appreciate getting more information from the copied & shared article about the perspective of attorneys who have represented victims, and are also critical of SafeSport. The attorney who has described SafeSport as an organization still in the early phases of development made a fair point. I find it interesting that the additional point was made regarding no one really expected Safe Sport to actually DO much of anything with respect to the wave of sexual abuse revelations. That it was created as a PR measure. Really sad.
2 Likes
I don’t know what the “Pulitzer Center” is, but that was excellent and very informative reporting. With 5,000 reports received and only 627 sanctions issued, I think the “rush to justice” and potential railroading of defendants (respondents) some of us feared may not be SafeSport’s biggest problem.
3 Likes
I’ll elucidate and illuminate, so that you can ruminate and later debate. The writing is on the wall and the math is not looking good for the professionals gathering around Diane Carney if SafeSport really gets it’s eyes and hands into the horse business and those who work and play around it, because it will remove many of them from the playground they have enjoyed for so long and destroy their business and personal lives, due to the criminal records they have accumulated (or would accumulate) from poor life choices and impulsive behavior.
I didn’t say anything before because I wanted to let people have their mourning period, but that’s probably what would have happened with Packy, as he had a criminal record due to his substance abuse problem and had exhibited a clear pattern of irresponsible behavior and a disregard for the safety of others because of it, if the court records from his time as a teacher/coach/clinician - in various states where had traveled as a trainer/coach/official - are anything to go by, as he had a tendency to get into trouble. Because his aborted legal career was - in his own words - nothing to be proud of, he really had nothing to his name except his past accomplishments as a rider, the farm and whatever he was doing as a coach/instructor/clinician and hanging out with big name Equestrians at East Coast events. Had SafeSport gotten around to him or he had to submit to a proper criminal background check, he would likely have had all of that taken from him, as what happened in the recent years were clear indications that - by SafeSport standards - he had no business being involved in what he had been doing for nearly a decade, which was coaching and teaching youth Equestrians.
So, to put things clearly into perspective, the people that SafeSport could sanction can lose everything they have if SafeSport bans them and they are unable to appeal and we obviously know from past headlines that people have committed suicide as a result of the SafeSport investigations and bans that destroyed their professional and personal lives. That’s what I believe Carney means by her use of “given the stakes”. Though, I do admit that it’s equally possible that she may actually be referring to the loss of the ubiquitous and much beloved free continental breakfasts that come with staying in various hotels when traveling for shows and clinics, which wouldn’t be made available to a banned professional, if one gets banned by SafeSport and is unable to travel on someone else’s dime.
12 Likes
@Horsegirl’s Mom The Pulitzer Center is a “non-profit journalism organization dedicated to raising awareness of underreported global issues through direct support for quality journalism across all media platforms and a unique program of outreach and education to schools and universities.” This article was the senior project of a student at The College of William & Mary who was participating in a seminar to develop their writing and reporting skills. The program is a joint Campus Consortium initiative with the Pulitzer Center and The College of William & Mary’s Roy R. Charles Center for Academic Excellence, supported by William & Mary alumni Anne and Barry Sharp.
This is the best post I’ve read in a while! To be honest when I saw the news that Packy had died, and before I read the article, I thought it was Safe Sport related.
The stakes are high for those who chose to and choose to live their life in an irresponsible way. However, I can’t sympathize. Those are the risks and it’s amazing to see the sheer panic of people on the East Coast.
I also find it fascinating people don’t understand why DC and the like want this pushed to the criminal courts It’s not about due process. It’s about not being able to administer any sort of punishment because the statute of limitations has run out and silencing victims.
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Whoa… I didn’t know he had a criminal record.
USEA abd the family are apparently soliciting donations to establish a memorial trophy. Are the criminal charges you are referring to 100% substance abuse related? If so… this is a struggle many folks have gone w through. If they were beyond that and related to some sort of misconduct with a minor… I’m just really sad. As of everything related to this topic wasn’t sad enough already.
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