Your second quote is pure speculation based on tying together events that YOU think are connected. Supposed he had cancer he was not going to beat? Selling the farm before he died would be a smart way to avoid a bunch of difficulties with his estate.
The last bit I quoted was all speculation.
Was he on the Safe Sport list?
Speculation in spades.
Hold up! I don’t think SafeSport cares about anyone’s DUIs, nor should it. Am I wrong?
Of course no one should drive while drunk. No one should use illegal drugs. No one should do either with children in their care. But how does that relate to protecting children from sexual predation?
I also think no one in a teaching- or otherwise power-holding position should promulgate racism, homophobia or any form of bigotry. I think most people would agree with me. But that relates neither to enforcement under existing laws nor SafeSport’s form of sanction.
I don’t think it’s reasonable to use SafeSport to prevent every kind of harm someone could do to kids in their charge.
Indeed. He loses nothing by leaving the USEF in a snit. I don’t know why anyone should care about his rant-on-the-way-out if he’s got no skin in the game.
In answer to your question: It’s because the USEF does not regulate horse training or riding instruction. Any one of any stripe, member or not, can hang out a shingle in the US. My sense is that all attempts to regulate horse training, even gently, in the form of offering credentials a pro could want and earn have failed.
Americans seem to enjoy the right to swindle more than they value the right to not be swindled.
You are wrong and not helping any credible defense of SafeSport’s mission and utility in the logical links you try to make in points three through five, the substance of your post as it relates to this thread.
Even if “parents shouldn’t like” a guy with a string of DUIs and/or speeding tickets, a substance abuse problem, the damning combination of a big personality and an “inappropriate” sense of humor (whatever that actually means), this set of sins does not rise to the level of doing anything wrong that is worthy of SafeSport’s attention.
People! Safesport has a great, much-needed but focused mission. The more you try to expand it to do the weeding-out work you’d like, the more fodder you create for its detractors. And seriously: Why not leave SafeSport to the task of protecting children from truly pernicious, enduring, previously-instoppable-by-any-other-means thugs like Larry Nasser? Isn’t that enough work?
If you want to evacuate the industry of all bad actors, you can do that by voting with your feet and your wallet. Of course, we always should have been doing that. But it still works great for those who are not doing anything patently illegal or immoral but “inappropriate” (again, whatever that term means).
ETA: Of course could we get an eye-roll from the congregation for “unstoppable-by-any-other-means” and “you always could have voted with your feet and your wallet when choosing your kid’s coach”?
They do. Most of the literature says “We only care about getting da pervs!” in big letters, but the fine print of their oversight includes animal abuse, domestic violence, and other matters which could relate to youth safety and personal responsibility, which is why SafeSport is so dangerous to the horse industry professionals that have gathered around Diane Carney. Apart from the “something to hide” crowd, there are A LOT of people in that group with records of drug-related offenses, reckless driving, assault, etc. that can be banned by SafeSport, if those records came to the attention of the organization and the organization chooses to use their legally empowered discretion to sanction them. The person in question above had children in the vehicle when she was drunk driving, hit one or more vehicles on the way home, and fled the Police before being captured.
The NGBs have also instituted coverage of additional things in their own background checks to keep potentially embarrassing people from having positions of prominence that could reflect badly, which is why Packy could have never passed the mandatory USEF/USEA/USHJ criminal background check if he wanted to get a good seat at the table, which he very much desired, as he was often seen in the company of the big names and did whatever he could to put his name out there as a “personality” with big name friends and connections.
Which one? They all say some version of sex abuse, except for one.
https://virginia.arrests.org/Arrests…midt_41826997/
She was suspended by SafeSport, pending the outcome of her legal case and SafeSport evaluation and is currently in jail, according to the courts. She got hammered, drove erratically and hit one or more vehicles coming out of the shopping center area she had been in, and fled the Police, all while having one or more children in her vehicle.
There are two suspension lists and a banned list. For example, Michael Barisone is on the suspension list pending the outcome of his trial. Same thing for the other person.
It seems to me if one lands themselves in jail for certain things they will be suspended pending the out come. It is not an out right ban.
Yes, they suspend whenever a legal case is involved. Once a legal verdict is rendered, SafeSport renders their own sanction taking into account the outcome and findings of the case, as they are empowered to do by law, at their own discretion.
I’m still floored over the push back of a quasi “HR department”. Welcome to real life I guess.
Right. Which is not the same thing as being suspended by safe sport for dui.
Right. Which is not the same as getting a SafeSport suspension for DUI.
That is not what I’m talking about. I am talking about the “virtual clinic” where he was collaborating with ushja officials.
And with regards to diane carney, that she continues to be employed as a judge at usef shows.
I’m not talking about their rights to be trainers. Hell, even george is welcome to go train non usef or fei riders, I’m talking about the usef and ushja continuing to prop up people who have forcibly sodomized children, and now–since it’s not being allowed to do that, it just employs or promotes their apologists. Apologists is such a wrong word, though, since none of them are sorry or feel shame about any of this…defenders of child sexual assault might be more accurate.
For those of you who are still unclear about SafeSport, the NGBs and SafeSport both have authority and jurisdiction to investigate and issue judgements in matters not involving child abuse or sexual misconduct, to remove those who are unfit to participate in the sports and pose a danger to themselves or others. So multiple DWIs, narcotics possession charges, repeatedly driving with a suspended license while going to and from events, and other such repetitive indications of personal irresponsibility and recklessness will make you eligible for SafeSport sanctions from either the NGB or SafeSport itself, if either becomes aware of your transgressions.
Bernie was a phenomenal hunter rider and a very successful Grand Prix jumper rider representing the US for many years. He rode Gozzi in the late 70’s and was based out of Pennsylvania until he moved to the West coast, I think late 70’s early 80’s. He rode with/for Frank Chapot and Ronnie Beard early in his career. He also won both the Medal and the Maclay.
First off… I’m not advocating expanding Safe Sport in any way shape or form. Nor am I someone with a “weeding out” agenda of some sort.
As to what “inappropriate” means…
It’s actually not ok to tell blatantly sexualized jokes around minor students as well as your own employees if you have taken the Sage Sport training and take it seriously.
Is this a MASSIVE cultural change for some people within the sport? YUP.
It’s also ideal if folks are in the business of coaching minors, and driving to and from horse shows, that they be sober when coaching, not in possession of illegal narcotics, not on illegal narcotics, and not driving with a suspended license.
Is this also a MASSIVE cultural change for some people within the sport? YUP.
Back to the whole “inappropriate” commentary/humor issue on the part of a coach within earshot of minors issue though. This is something that I encourage people to actually pause and think about for half a second before leaping to an immediate conclusion that the messenger (in this case me) speaking up about this particular issue is a bigot/prude/frumpy suburban mother with nothing better to focus on/insert other stereotype here of your choosing.
Nope. Actually, I raised this issue using the generalized term “inappropriate” because we are all supposed to have gone through Safe Sport training now and be more educated and aware and now know that…
Sexualized joking around children, teenagers and subordinates (working students or staff) is a recognized form of grooming and pushing sexual boundaries.
Does that mean I am saying EVERYONE who engages in this sort of noise at a barn or horse show is a predator who should be immediately reported to Safesport and banned for life? Of COURSE not.
Can I vote with my wallet if I don’t like this sort of thing and don’t want my child riding at a barn where a coach talks and behaves this way? Of COURSE I can.
But Safe Sport is here now, and theoretically it isn’t 100% the responsibility of my little Suzy Suburbia self to keep a watchful eye out for this sort of thing with the professionals at all times, and take it upon myself to swoop in and collect my child and find a new barn when professionals are openly and ostentatiously CHOOSING to behave in unprofessional ways, and the hair on the back of my neck starts to stand up at some of the ongoing inappropriate chatter. I have no desire to be the “dirty joke police.” Nor do I have a desire to go and try and “weed out” any particular group of people who are professionals in the industry.
Actually, professionals are supposed to be behaving professionally these days. And sober. Imagine that!
I am surprised and annoyed that people have immediately and reflexively turned this particular issue, and comments of mine and an earlier comment by Lex into some sort of bigotry issue. Unprofessional behavior and inappropriate humor on the part of some adult coaches right in front of minor students ISN’T an innocent “nothing” issue, and isn’t limited to the lgbtq community. This is not an issue that needs to turn into an identity politics problem. This issue is a BEHAVIORAL problem. And I hope people who have jumped to the conclusion that some folks are bigots and uptight and need to settle down and narrow their focus to only the REAL thug like predators and not complain about raunchy jokester personalities amongst the professional set pause one more time. And recollect that there once was an infamous golf cart that was seen our and about at horse shows that openly declared a certain famous coach WASN’T a dirty old man. Or something like that. This apparently was considered a REALLY hilarious joke by many people at horse shows for years. Except for the minor students in the barn who were victims of sexual abuse and assault perpetrated by that HILARIOUS dirty old man.
Anyway - that’s where I am coming from. Take it or leave it.
Thank you for clearing up the “fine print” about all the other things one could have done wrong in the eyes of SafeSport. But don’t you think those have to rise to a pretty significant level and have lots of proof in order to earn someone a ban?
Also, could you speak in plainer, less metaphorical terms about NGBs and “having a seat at the table.” You mean this Packy guy (or any of us) has to pass a criminal background check in order to become a member of the USEF? I don’t think that’s true. And if “sitting at the big table,” means something like “enjoying the friendship and respect of industry leaders,” well, so what? That’s not any kind of official imprimatur.
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