People Attempting to Undermine Safe Sport

@Virginia Horse Mom You are more brave than these anonymous defenders. You have more courage and conviction than those standing up for their friends who were investigated. You are what is right in the horse world.

I do know who Virginia Horse Mom is IRL, and we connected through these Safe Sport threads and really connected because of the Navy. Past and present the Navy is one family.

I may be a loud mouth, but I walk the walk. I maybe be too blunt but I am a work in progress. I will however toe and step over the line if I see VHM getting chastised for her posts. I don’t know why she needs to repeatedly spell out she’s open minded. Anyone paying attention sees that.

Her experiences come from her own family and the world at large. Being a Navy wife you really see the world without leaving the house because your spouse comes home and needs to talk about stuff. Like the Airman who needs clothes because the first set of new clothes they got was the uniforms in boot camp. Or the Second class who is trying to figure out how to get custody of their younger sibling because their parents are abusive. They hear about the First Class who needs a divorce and doesn’t know how to go about it. Or they hear about the person who’s boyfriend is illegally trying to kick them out of their home while they are on Detachment.

This woman has an open mind. This woman has beaten abuse and cancer. This woman still has a generous heart. To those who want to know who she is on here or Diva, PM her with your real name.

As for me, ya ain’t gonna find anything other than a bunch of people I pissed off or a bunch of people who love me.

I hope for everyone at the end of the day people will say the same about you because of who you are and not what you have done for them.

9 Likes

I wanted to say thank you again to Virginia Horse Mom, Denali6298 and others on here for sharing and also for how much I learn from reading your comments. It shouldn’t matter who is who but I hope everyone reading this will realize how the good ole boys club works, especially in hunterland. Some of the recent comments on this thread and Katie’s recent letter are very typical of the way ‘things work’. They will try and shame you, out you so they can blackball you (very easy to do when it comes to someone judging someone for a ribbon) and intimidate you into shutting up. They realize this is just the tip of the iceberg for the horse industry and they will do anything to protect their way of living. The iswg and authority groups are about a whole lot more than just supporting a sexual predator. SafeSport represents change and that scares them most of all, imo. I do feel better knowing we have SafeSport and we aren’t policing ourselves anymore, that didn’t work. I have to add that I have also met some amazing people in the horse world so they all aren’t so bad.

13 Likes

Thanks for the support and friendship to those of you who have been supportive and have become friends. O had a longer, rambling post, but just deleted it. Too much. I’m fried by this. It happens. It’s tough, emotional stuff.

6 Likes

There are things about SS that can probably be improved. There are investigations taking far too long, and there are victims afraid to be involved and predators that will never be punished in any way. What’s wrong about AFE is the way these people are going on and on and on about this “lack of due process” BS as if this is a criminal investigation. It’s not. It’s like when someone breaks code of conduct in the workplace. It’s the generalizations about these so-called weaponized complaints. Where? How many people went on the list and came off the list later? I worked 9-1-1 for a while, know how many calls came in and when cops, fire, or ems got there, that wasn’t the truth? It happens. Want to know how many people wanted to file false reports about someone? relatively few. I find it strange that SS would have many many “weaponized claims” that outted someone, caused them to lose business, and then turned out to be unfounded? If you have these names, please PM me to keep it off the public board, I’d like to know how many and how it was found out that the claims were false please.

7 Likes

Popping my head back up today after sleeping, having coffee, and calming down in general.

These threads really got to me yesterday, and I had two very long posts that I later thought better of, and deleted. Denali was a great friend, and called me courageous. Well… sorry - you spoke too soon! I backed away from my own words a bit for sure.

So here’s the short version for anyone who missed it…

People use alters on the forums. Self included. Some of us know one another in real life. Everyone knows who certain posters are, etc etc. There has been a nasty trend on the Safe Sport related threads though for certain posters who are REALLY upset about this issue to want to “out” myself and others, in real life.

Maybe because of horse shows and ribbons? You want to punish and blackball people? Maybe because you think we are cowards? I don’t know the goal is.

What I DO know is that I have shared on these forums over a year ago that I am a survivor of childhood sexual abuse. And sexual assault later on in my teens. Both are situations that haven’t ever been reported to police or prosecuted, and neither has anything to do with horse world. I shared my stories along with multiple other people so that others would realize how complicated and painful these issues are for people like me. They are. It is a major reason I am passionate about the topic of Safe Sport. In addition to being a mother myself.

I also shared on earlier threads, because it was cathartic and personally healthy and important for me to do so. It was a major step in my life. I don’t regret it. But the irony is that I have ZERO desire for my own story and sharing to boomerang back on other people in my life. Hence my use of an alter. Somehow between then and now though, I seem to have caught the attention of the anti Safe Sport people and made some of you quite angry.

These odd threats and the bizarre thread on Horse Show Diva that popped a little while ago caused a bit of stress - I won’t lie. Not because I’m worried about being blackballed at horse shows anytime soon. I’m not worried about that AT ALL. But I really would PREFER personal information I’ve spoken about on these forums, using an alter, only in the context of these discussions, not to get spread all over horse world in real life, because anti Safe Sport people somehow think that publicly “outing” the identity of a childhood survivor of sexual abuse is an appropriate form of “justice” when it comes to people like me calling out YOUR nonsense on the forums and having a VERY different opinion than some folks on a sensitive topic.

There you go.

So if people still want to continue with dares and the threats and calling other people cowards - go for it. If you want to out my real full first and last name and gossip about my experiences as a survivor of abuse - GO FOR IT. That speaks volumes about just how low you will go.

As I said in one of my now deleted, admittedly rambling posts last night… I’ve survived more tough stuff than some of YOU people can really imagine. So no worries, go ahead and carry on with your threats and dares, and playing sad songs on your tiny violins for horse trainers who might face a business issue because of a Safe Sport allegation and investigation.

20 Likes

I did and I deleted mine so as to assist VHM in her re-do. I think it’s weird people want to out people IRL. It serves no purpose other than to cause harm.

5 Likes

@Denali Agreed. There is no reason for anyone to be expected to identify themselves on an anonymous forum. It is ridiculous and it is harmful to be speculating about posters’ true identities. This is meant to be a discussion board - not a platform for bullying. Attacking posters for their opinions is not productive. Calling anyone a coward in this setting is not appropriate. (I can even imagine some people IRL may have been incorrectly identified and attacked without reason.) There is no excuse for any kind of bullying or victim blaming, online or IRL, IMHO.

My heart goes out to anyone on this board who has experienced any form of violence. You have zero responsibility to explain or identify yourselves to anyone on here.

17 Likes

VHM, I’m truly sorry for what happened to you and admire your ability to move forward.

6 Likes

I’m actually also personally aware of someone who had a similar accusation lodged against them and SS gave them the courtesy of a call to explain their side due to personal relationships within the org- so their deal was resolved completely privately and no public shame. Do you think that is fair??? Just because YOU have only been “keeping track” of the list for less than a year doesn’t mean this wasn’t happening for longer than that.

SafeSport processes and documentation specifically call that out as one of the ways they can operate. There are many actions they can take, including no action at all, Friendly Phone Calls, facilitated negotiations, and letters of reprimand, which are completely private. They can direct a person to complete specific training or they can ask for some quite targeted remedies like No Contact orders or chaperones. It’s not a Ban On Sight operation.

12 Likes

I want to say something about pseudonyms. I use one, yes. If you want to know about me as a horseman or frankly as a person you’ll find far more reading my 20k posts as poltroon than knowing what the name is on my driver’s license.

You know what I see? I have never seen anyone start charging about asking for real names - on this forum or any other - as a point of kindness. It’s usually just used as a weapon when someone is unhappy about how their part of the argument is going.

People build identities and we get to know them and those handles are as real as any other. (I personally most enjoy the argument when it comes from someone with a commonly shared name that belongs to hundreds or thousands of other people.) On the whole I find that long term stable communities with pseudonyms are at least as kind as places that force a name that looks like a legal name.

If you feel someone is using a pseudonym (or real-looking username) fraudulently, the moderation team is the place to go. Sockpuppetry would be the classic example but not the only one.

18 Likes

I love this post. To add further, I know many people’s names here just as they know mine. I’m pretty sure I’ve exchanged emails with Poltroon to try to get some information for her. What makes the name demand frightening is we all do this in good faith. We’ve been doing this since the BB has been around.

If people are afraid to email or meet the boards will lose one of its greatest assets. There is no reason to dig for fellow posters personal information.

It also is beyond ironic the person asking for that information is a poster who doesn’t have the cajones to use their normal screen name.

8 Likes

Thank you to the fellow posters who were exceptionally kind amidst my meltdown… I needed that, for reasons beyond this thread right now. I truly appreciate it.

I also love Poltroon’s perspective on the utilization of alters. I joke periodically on these threads that I AM indeed a keyboard warrior. But for the folks who want to beat up on the use of alters, etc etc, I challenge you to compare the discussion of Safe Sport on the forums, to comments all over Facebook both inside private groups, and made publicly on Chronicle articles or on people’s personal pages…

YOU TELL ME… which social media platform is a more civil one for people who are survivors of abuse to participate fully in? To manage to get their perspective heard, while also being treated in a mutually respectful and civil manner?

For me… that would be these forums.

12 Likes

I also want to address a comment made by a poster who joined the discussion to share some facts about Packy that she felt were important to mention.

She specifically challenged myself and others (Denali in particular… they REALLY dislike both of us ;)) to get involved in a “real” group of actual professionals who were dealing with Safe Sport and facing challenges, so that we would hear their stories, and broaden our perspective.

She then shared that,though she disagreed with folks objecting to the GM lifetime ban, she firmly supported AFE.

Here’s my challenge with this… AFE has taken thousands of dollars in donations from people who publicly and LOUDLY support GM. AFE has also taken donations from people who have known AK since her days riding as a junior, who were actually there when abuse was occurring at Flintridge… people who know, or strongly suspect what she has shared is true. Those people simply DON’T CARE. They have amazing memories of an incredible riding program with a talented coach, and they firmly and loudly have declared that they want all acknowledgement of children who were abused along the way swept under the rug. They are CRYSTAL CLEAR about it. Same goes for most of the GM supporters. Sweep the abused kids under the rug, because these two men were legends in the sport, and abused children “tarnish” their “legacy.”

Abused children are actually a major PART of both of these mens’ legacies. I value people over riding skills, blue ribbons, and a sport. I can’t say the same for others though.

Also, AFE requires me to pay money. That money will presumably go towards lobbyists (specifically Tom Sheridan of the Sheridan group - he is the name they have pointed to who is going to Washington to try and change Safe Sport in a manner all these people find acceptable… just in case anyone was curious). So if I actually want to know what is going on in their discussion groups, town halls, etc etc, I have to monetarily contribute to this cause.

So no… I’m not joining this group.

If one of the people/puppets who have recently popped into this thread and repeatedly claimed that it is possible to want to reform Safe Sport, while ALSO supporting victims, can point me to a group which is NOT full of Jimmy Williams and George Morris fans, and NOT taking money from legendary coaches in the sport who have gone online and declared that sexual abuse in sport isn’t a real issue because everyone knows that some kids were “screwing for the blue” back in the day… and DOES NOT have members in it’s midst who blame survivors of sexual abuse when they were minors for someone committing suicide later on when these issues come to light…

I’d be very interested in hearing what a group of professionals like that has to say about Safe Sport.

So I’m punting this nonsense back on you people… show me a group not full of child molester defenders, a group made up of decent people who are also concerned about the impact of Safe Sport on professional coaches in any number of different sports, and I’m happy to listen with an open mind to what those folks have to say.

But Athletes for Equity? No. Not giving them money. And anyone who does, needs to ask themselves, “Why am I doing this? Because I want to continue to win ribbons and curry favor with a bunch of people who don’t care about minors being molested?”

After all, the President of that group is a USEF Judge… and it is CERTAINLY an influential little group of professionals in one particular sport. So don’t be surprised if people watching this, develop the opinion that supporters of this group are a little lacking in the integrity department.

16 Likes

That’s the thing I hate the most about the horse world, some of the most influential are the the ones with the least integrity. It really makes it hard to be proud of something I love so much. Thank God for therapy!

10 Likes

Well… the good news is that the horses themselves have integrity - lol. Seriously though. They’re, by and large, quite honest. Kids too. Kids who rode, by and large, all wear their hearts on their sleeves. Our sport always did, and still does, tend to attract really empathetic sensitive types who love the animals themselves, more than anything else. Even fierce competition.

It’s just a weird group of adults who seem to be all twisted up, and focused on only business and competition. It’s sort of sad actually, as most of them were once just horse crazy kids themselves. If you look at the bios for many/most well known pros, especially those from “days gone by” before REALLY big money took over a lot of the top levels of the sport, most started out as horse obsessed kids. Kids who just wanted to be around the animals they loved all the time, and worked hard for any and all riding opportunities. The evolution of those kids into a few of the “professional” adults I now see speaking out in opposition to Safe Sport is quite sad… when you pause and think about.

6 Likes

Being a professional in this sport is hard. It’s not usually salaried. There’s a lot of risk of financial or physical disaster. The cash flow is challenging even in the best of times. You’re judged on results you can’t control, your personal and financial security at the combined whim and competence of an 8 year old child and a 4 year old pony sometimes.

If you don’t have confidence in your own personal security and safety, it is hard to be 100% ethical, no matter how good a person you start out as or try to be. If a needle into this horse means you can feed the rest of them for a few months plus pay the mortgage, it’s easy to talk yourself into it. Anxious people do destructive things, and the horse industry is practically an anxiety factory for the people who make their living in it.

10 Likes

Holy crap, I don’t check this for like a week and I missed all the drama.

Is anyone else confused as to why someone using the extremely common nickname for Jennifer, “Jenny”, is stalkerish? I don’t know a single person named Jennifer who hasn’t gone by Jenny at some point in their life. It would be way more stalkerish if it was some obscure nickname.

All I can say, though, is that AFE are probably not also members of the current conspiracy theories going around, since those mostly revolve around taking down elite pedophiles and they are essentially supporting them. So at least they have that going for them? Ish?

6 Likes

@RainWeasley - I do agree about the Jenny thing 🤣 It’s a really common nickname.

I’m confused by your other point though about elite pedophiles and supporters and conspiracy theories. Unless you are referring to Epstein. Then I guess I’d get it. I think.

Life has me confused lately though. Quarantine brain, I think. And a screwed up sleep schedule… uggh.

It took me a minute to figure that out but I’m pretty sure it’s a reference to the Qanon conspiracy theories: “Q has falsely accused many liberal Hollywood actors, Democratic politicians, and high-ranking officials of engaging in an international child sex trafficking ring, and has claimed that Donald Trump feigned collusion with Russians in order to enlist Robert Mueller to join him in exposing the ring . . .” (from Wikipedia)

Also think of the infamous pizza parlor shooter of 4 years ago.

3 Likes

Yes. I think that was just part of the “big personalitied, sometimes purposely tone-deaf, but loyal-to-the-end” guy’s friend behaving the same when going after someone here who built way too much of a theory on shreds of publicly-available info. Once you get the RPMs up on a rant, it can be hard to come back down. It’s a case of my famous, “And Another Thing!” move that signals the train about to jump off the track of relevance.

You never want to build up a head of steam of righteous indignation and then waste it.

1 Like