How about an “I stand with the victims” group?
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Is it coincidence that the farm DC uses went up for sale almost immediately after GM got his pink-slip finalized? She seems to have placed most (if not all) of her eggs in his basket and relies heavily on her long-term association with him, so I guess it’s not a coincidence that she’s fighting hard against SafeSport.
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Livestream available for tonight’s USHJA Safesport Q & A at 6:10pm Eastern
https://cdn.digitalservices.online/USHJA-2019/
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That article was painful to read, and full of false information.
"One of the major complaints against SafeSport is their public announcement of violations while investigations are still ongoing or still subject to appeal. What do you think the appropriate balance is between protecting the reputation of an individual who has been accused and also protecting the larger community?
We’ve heard from actual cases that people with decades-old accusations, within hours, are placed on an initial report before an investigation has even been undertaken. That the person is placed on a banned list, and the notice goes out, and they’re not even given any word that they’re on the list; they hear it from someone else. That a person has to seek assistance to address this within a very short period of time, five days. They have to pay to have a hearing; it costs them $5,000. And they have to get an attorney. "
I find this hard to believe that within a few hours they are put on the list. The case I was involved in took weeks from the date of the initial report to an interim suspension. There were several phone conversations with SS before the person was put on the banned list. In addition, the interim hearing is $500 to the accused, not $5000 For a full merit arbitration hearing it is $5200, but if no violation is found, the Responding Party gets that money back.
"What about protecting children who might be coming in contact with a person who has been accused before a full investigation can be completed? For example, when a teacher faces an accusation, they are usually removed from the classroom immediately while the investigation plays out.
We are not about not protecting children, but the line cannot be drawn in a way where an assumption is made and then that’s made public. " Do they still believe those in the equestrian world are somehow special? If a teacher, doctor, etc is accused; it usually is on the evening news.
“The line of protecting people from an alleged accusation—and it is alleged until it is proven—has to be done in a way that protects people’s confidentiality until there is an opportunity to adjudicate a case on the merits, and hearsay is not evidence.” People are arrested all the time and thrown in jail long before any adjudication process is conducted.
"Of course, the difference between a riding coach and a schoolteacher is that the riding coach hangs out their individual shingle. And if you’re Susie’s mom looking for a riding instructor, you’re not going to know that person is the subject of an ongoing investigation if it’s not made public.
I’m all about somebody saying, “Hey, you know there are questions that are going to be asked, and we need to get together and get this handled.” I’m all about that conversation, but that’s a confidential conversation " - What does this mean?
It is common practice for a those accused of sexual misconduct to be on the news. This gives others an opportunity to come forward to either support the accused or other victims to come forward and report their abuse.
"There is a concern in the equestrian community, one I think you share, that people might use SafeSport as a way to punish someone they’re unhappy with, i.e. the ex-girlfriend deciding to get even or the student who’s been passed over making a false claim. Do you believe SafeSport is meting out punishments without adequately investigating claims of abuse? If yes, what examples or evidence do you have for that?
That is not a rumor; that is fact. We have actual scenarios where people have been falsely accused, where the investigation was closed and may have never gotten off the ground, and at the same time, SafeSport would not have had the time to look into those making false accusations. " What? What does this mean?
"But to play devil’s advocate, we can all think of particular cases, let’s say the example of rape, where it’s he said/she said, and it’s very difficult to win in a court of law because of “beyond a reasonable doubt.” Some people would say, when we’re not sending someone to prison and we’re not limiting their freedom, that there’s space for a lower bar.
Well, I think if you’re talking about taking a person’s entire livelihood and you’re talking about taking away their support mechanism, when you’re talking about making a tremendous change in the way that they conduct themselves and the way that they live their life, I don’t believe there should be a space of, “Well, it won’t hold up in court, but it ought to be somewhere.” I think that’s vague, and I think that’s irresponsible."
“tremendous change in the way they conduct themselves? What? Stop sleeping with minors. Boy, that might be a hard thing to change. What these people seem to overlook is the abuse most likely happened. In many cases the Responding Party did not deny it. They just don’t think they should be punished.
"As I understand it, the SafeSport process for reporting and investigating abuse was developed to protect victims so they could report abuse without fear of reprisal, either from their abuser or from others connected to their abuser. Connections are everything in the horse world, and publicly “telling” on someone powerful may mean the end of a potential career in the sport. Many of the changes you’re advocating significantly reduce the protections for victims. (For example, making victims face their accuser, which is a powerful deterrent to reporting.) Do you think it’s possible to make the reporting and investigating process more fair to the accused without also making it more difficult for the victim?
I totally understand that people don’t want to say something is going on, because they feel like they’re going to be reacted to, or the reprisal, as they say.
There’s a legal term called confrontation, the right to confront your accuser. This Constitutional right, in the current SafeSport policies is not allowed." In other professions, you do not get to face your accuser. Therapist, doctors, lawyers do not get to face their accuser when being investigated by the respective boards or law enforcement.
Athletes For Equity In Sport’s main focus is establishing a proper hearing before a ban takes place where that exchange of evidence and confrontation happen in the presence of an independent arbitrator under oath. You are aware that none of these proceedings are under oath?" [B]FALSE, FALSE , FALSE. Every witness is under oath during arbitration.
"But it would be fair to say that’s very difficult for a lot of victims, especially if this was a manipulative and emotionally abusive relationship.[/B]
In our judicial system, we also have social workers and support systems for these people. None of that exists with SafeSport. So if somebody’s going to come forward and make a charge, let’s just not make sure they make a charge, let’s make sure they have some support. " FALSE – SS has support systems for victims. “The U.S. Center for SafeSport (USCSS) has partnered with RAINN to advance SafeSport’s mission: to ensure that athletes are safe, supported, and strengthened through sport. As a part of this partnership, RAINN provides for SafeSport an online helpline, which is reached through SafeSport’s website.”
.
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After a recent firsthand experience with Ms. Navin, I retract my former position of abject nonchalance and ambivalence and actually feel she should be disbarred. Pm me for any info. Some new news has come to light and I am floored by the way she is conducting herself, along with the professionals who staunchly support her.
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If she has truly done something worthy of disbarment, I hope that information is turned over to the appropriate authority.
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A big thank you to Safe Sport representative Mr. Michael Henry for his explanation of the workings of Safe Sport investigations. :applause:
Also a big thanks to Bill Moroney and Mary Babick for making it happen. :encouragement:
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That’s an easy call to the State Bar Association of which she is a member, IE the State(s) where she is licensed to practice law.
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Be careful whom you talk to. She has an account here under the name “Beenthere” and monitors these postings.
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I thought Mr. Henry was great! Thank you! Not even an hour after the talk BN and DC were commenting trying to smear Mr Henry, not really unexpected by BN, but I can not believe Diane Carney, someone trying to gain support and funds to “reform” SafeSport, would act like this. Speaks volumes about her character. I really tried to understand her point of view but it is now CLEAR to me, she is all about protecting George and the other abusers. Her “reform” group is nothing but a show of support for people she thinks still have power in our sport. USEF has to address this, she is a judge and has other judges donating to her “cause”, I hope someone is keeping a list.
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The fact that Diane’s facility appears to have gone up for sale just before the magic marker ink on George’s pink slip had dried seems like a serious panic reaction on her part. Serious money is being asked for it, much more than an equivalent facility elsewhere, so it makes me wonder if there’s more to all of this than we currently know.
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Does she actually own that property though? Or even have an ownership interest in it? The website doesn’t indicate that she owns the farm. I wonder if the sale is partly just due to general real estate challenges in many areas of Illinois outside Chicago. I have a few friends who have left the general area in the last few years (both horse friends and suburbanites) because it is SOOOO expensive to live there, and really hard to keep a business profitable. GM clinics certainly did seem to be a significant selling point in terms of that particular Illinois farm… maybe they just decided to try and sell it now, rather than pouring more time, energy and money into the business trying to find a different way to be profitable and successful in a really tough market?
Anyone know if DC is just going to work out of Florida full time now? It might also make common sense given her age. A lot of people just get sick of dealing with cold, and Florida has a much friendlier tax structure than Illinois for people who are small business owners…
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DC does not own the property where her farm operated.
No problem being profitable as a h/j barn in that area and not expensive cost of living.
The farm seems to be currently owned by her business associates, Robert and Caroline Weeden, but her own business in the area goes back to the 90’s. She has had two “businesses” under her farm name and the second was incorporated around the time the Weedens seem to have bought the farm, back in 2004. For the properties and business after the farm was up and running, the Weedens apparently did a hard right and went down the Delaware incorporation hole for their two businesses, so things are rather anonymous and protected, as far as their business and any ownership are concerned.
I did some more digging and it looks like the Weeden’s recently broke up and Caroline went her own way with her own horses at another farm in the area, so it looks like the farm is for sale due to their divorce. That seems to explain the matter.
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Ah - a divorce makes sense, but is sad. It’s a lovely farm. Interesting that the area is good in terms of operating a profitable h/j barn. I’ll admit - I have an east coast bias regarding almost everything, and think Virginia is the best state ever for children and horses :winkgrin:
Hopefully someone comes along and buys the property, and it’s a lovely option for horsey people in the area in terms of boarding, training and clinics.
Well - BN has now entirely removed, or changed the settings to private on a previously public post she has up on Facebook right after the Safe Sport talk given by Michael Henry.
Because I have already been accused of unfairly bullying and stalking her, I’ll go ahead and share a few specific notes from the post she PREVIOUSLY had up. Because people need to be aware of how ugly things are getting with her, and the depths she is sinking to in her decision to assume the role of Anti Safe Sport Legsl Expert…
I didn’t copy anything from the last post while it was still up and public… but here are the highlights…
- She accused MichaelHenry of of misrepresenting some of the specific fees involved in the arbitration process. She shared screenshots of what she said were invoices or letters from Safe Sport to a ?client? notifying them of costs involved in a prior hearing/arbitration. I can only assume that these docs came from a prior client - maybe they belonged to a friend or associate involved in a Safe Sport matter though. I don’t know… but it was a bit stunning to me. I didn’t look closely at the screen shots she shared… but WOW… hope she got specific permission from the person the invoice/letter originally was sent, and presumably Safe Sport (if they were the originator of the letter/invoice) prior to publicly sharing that on social media.
[B]If the screenshots she shared came from a file pertaining to a client of hers - past or present - how was it in the client’s best interest for her to share that info on social media as part of an attack on a Safe Sport representative?
”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹[/B]2. Jim Giorgio - someone specifically banned for life because he plead guilty to sexually molesting a minor - a teenage girl - AGAIN commented on Bonnie’s post. She replied. It’s really bizarre to see this. It’s not a good look for her. He’s banned for life.
- BN made specific comments about Mr. Henry implying he failed the bar exam(?). I have no idea what is true… but that’s pretty nasty and specific.
Look people - accuse me of bullying her if you want, but honestly… associate with her at your own risk.
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How is Diane’s facility Safe Sport related?
Only peripherally, as she hosts George Morris clinics there, including some like last week or so that were canceled.
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I wonder sometimes, why people don’t even have even one friend that will reach out in a time of exrtremis. The kind of friend that will tell them when they really shouldn’t go out in that outfit, or when their fly is unzipped, or when they have visible snot in their nose, or a pen mark on their face etc… I’ve done that much for strangers. Well, not the outfit part…
I hope that someone who knows, or has known in the past, these people who are making asses of themselves all over the internet (where it can’t be erased) would try to give them a heads up that they are headed in the wrong direction over a very serious matter.
Perhaps a word from someone who used to know them, when they were their better selves, might make a difference?
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