People who are doormats, why? People who aren’t, how?

[danhelm441]

I rent a horse property and care for a couple horses daily, in addition to my FT job. Recently the property owner brought on a new boarder, who negotiated partial self care for her 3 horses. Partial self care means the boarder comes in the evenings to cover one shift, but needs me to cover the mornings.

Because I still have a FT job, I have a cap on the number of horses and stalls I can cover before I need another hand. Technically these 3 would put me over that limit, but because of the “partial” aspect of it, I agreed to take them for a little extra comp.

If everything were split 50/50 between mornings and evenings, I don’t think I would have a problem. But now that this has been going on for a few months, my sense is that the boarder shows up in the evening and does the bare minimum (feed and hay). That leaves two dry lots and one stall untouched to accumulate 24 hr of manure to pick out in the mornings, and water buckets that constantly need scrubbing and refilling.

On random occasions, the boarder will go above and beyond to clean everything immaculately. Other times, she will do a little, so it’s clear an effort was made. But she still leaves a disproportionate number of time-consuming tasks undone. If she never, ever did her share of self care, I would find it easier to confront her or the barn owner. But because she sometimes makes an effort, I don’t feel comfortable “accusing” her to the owner.

So to answer my own question, yes, I am a doormat. I feel like a very flat doormat in this situation. And I’m annoyed because I feel like there should be a very obvious, tactful way to solve this. But I’m fairly new in the position, don’t feel entitled to complain, and am also bothered that I did in fact agree to this before I knew what the boarder would be like.

I think on some level I am embarrassed to complain… How do people navigate these types of situation with finesse? Because I hate to admit it, and it feels a little immature too, but I find myself feeling this way in more situations than just this one.

[furlong47]

If you’re renting the whole property, why is the owner determining who else boards there? IMO that should be up to you, especially if you’re the one who ends up doing the work.

It should be clearly determined in writing which chores are done in which daypart (or by which person). If you aren’t comfortable working that out with her, have the owner help, since they are the one who brought her in.

[danhelm441]

If you’re renting the whole property, why is the owner determining who else boards there?

The owner doesn’t live on the property but still runs the business, has clients, trains, etc. I rent the house and do the basic farm management, with a rotating staff of PT help

[StB.YM]

Yes, social anxiety and fear of confrontation definitely turn uncomfortable discussions into impossible ones. The best way I’ve found to approach something like this is by text or email first, and if that goes well, a face to face discussion. Just stick to the basic facts - no embellishments or apologies - keep it short and sweet.

[aregard]

Maybe an approach for you:

Take yourself out of it and lay out the situation as if it were two completely other people.

Person A does XYZ,
Person B should do ABC, but frequently only does A. Sometimes does AB, rarely does ABC.

Now, how should the situation be dealt with?

If Person A has autonomy, and gets 3 full boards for their work, but Person B has no autonomy, and only gets half board off, well… But if the “compensation” is the same, the work should be the same.

If you were hiring someone for this work, you’d be mad if one person worked hard and the other slacked, wouldn’t you?

[Texarkana]

I’m not good at solving these problems either. Tactful honesty and communication is usually the best policy, though. (That doesn’t mean I’m always good at following my own advice)

You’re in a tough situation. I can empathize; up until October I was in a loosey goosey lease on my former coworker’s farm that sounds similar to yours. We lived there but the property owner still ran his business out of there.

A starting point may be to pick the chores that absolutely need to be done nightly: “hey boarder can you please do XYZ nightly?” Then maybe you can set a timeline for the other stuff.

[wsmoak]

Book recommendation: “Never Split The Difference”. The author is occasionally insufferable, but does have some good points.

What is your desired outcome? It isn’t more money, because you have to leave for your other job. Getting paid more wouldn’t help. So it’s less work, possibly meaning a helper for in the morning.

“This arrangement isn’t working out for me. With the three additional horses, there is frequently more work than I can handle in the mornings before I have to leave for my full time job.”

If the person asks why that is, you can offer that you frequently find that there is more cleaning to do than it seems like there should be for overnight. Without accusing anyone. But the reason doesn’t really matter… you need to un-do this agreement.

I would not try to get the boarder to change. They’ve shown you who they are, believe them. If someone tells them they are not acting correctly, they may straighten up for a while… but they’ll most likely go back to doing the same thing.

Re: not being a doormat… I dunno, I’m older now. “No” is a complete sentence. I use, “Unfortunately, that won’t be possible” repeated a couple of times followed by a “That isn’t going to happen” for the ones who don’t get it.

[IndysMom]

Don’t say “I’m sorry” instead say “I regret” much stronger

[Djones]

What you want is consistency. Do you ever see the person you’re splitting the care with, or is she gone by the time you get home from work?

[hoopoe]

were the duties written out? Is there a check list board referencing these duties?

[MorganMaresVT]

@hoopoe

were the duties written out? Is there a check list board referencing these duties?

This was what I was thinking too. If your board checks are due on the 1st of the month, I’d use this as a time to reset expectations. I don’t know how you communicate with owner and boarder, but if email is an option (so this is in writing), I’d send something along these lines:

Hi boarder,
(copying Owner here just as an FYI)
Now that we’re a few months in to having Pookie, Dobbin, and Fluffy here at the barn, I wanted to connect and make sure we’re all clear on which chores are done in the evenings vs. mornings. As specified in the boarding contract [hopefully there is one], night chores include:
[Bulleted list of all required chores. Stick to what’s required, not what’s nice to have]
To make it easier for all of us, I created checklist that I’ll post outside the feedroom so we all have access to it. If something hasn’t been done, we’ll be able to work together to figure out how to make sure it does get completed in the future.

I’ll be posting this new checklist to coincide with the board cycle beginning on July 1. If you have any questions, please reply here or meet me at x time on x date to clarify.

Thanks!
-Name, Barn Manager

[danhelm441]

@MorganMaresVT

[Bulleted list of all required chores. Stick to what’s required, not what’s nice to have]

There’s unfortunately nothing in the boarding contract that stipulates what self-care boarders need to do each day to qualify as care. If a boarder thinks it’s fine for their horse to stand in a week’s worth of manure and drink green algae water, there’s nothing in writing to say that’s not acceptable.

[MorganMaresVT]

@danhelm441

There’s unfortunately nothing in the boarding contract that stipulates what self-care boarders need to do each day to qualify as care. If a boarder thinks it’s fine for their horse to stand in a week’s worth of manure and drink green algae water, there’s nothing in writing to say that’s not acceptable.

Oh, I think I misunderstood. I thought she was responsible for doing chores for the whole barn in the evenings.

So if she is just leaving her own three horses in gross stalls, why does that create extra work for you? Can you just document for the property owner that she’s not providing the self-care she committed to and have them deal with it?

I know self-care works well for a lot of people, but these kinds of situations make me think I’d never want to be someplace that allowed it. Everyone’s expectations and standards are so different.

[danhelm441]

@MorganMaresVT

So if she is just leaving her own three horses in gross stalls, why does that create extra work for you? Can you just document for the property owner that she’s not providing the self-care she committed to and have them deal with it?

It’s because it’s a partial self-care arrangement. So the horses aren’t in gross stalls with gross water, because I clean them every morning. But to catch them up to the standards of the rest of the barn, it takes twice as long as it should.

Maybe the easy solution is to allow the standards to drop to a level the boarder is comfortable maintaining. So if that means manure accumulates and water troughs get slimy until the one day a week she has the time to do a deep clean, maybe that’s okay. It just doesn’t seem fair to the animals, and it’s hard to split responsibilities equitably with someone who is so random about what she does and when she does it.

[Djones]

@danhelm441

So to answer my own question, yes, I am a doormat. I feel like a very flat doormat in this situation. And I’m annoyed because I feel like there should be a very obvious, tactful way to solve this. But I’m fairly new in the position, don’t feel entitled to complain, and am also bothered that I did in fact agree to this before I knew what the boarder would be like.

And I’m annoyed because I feel like there should be a very obvious, tactful way to solve this.

There is- do you ever see the boarder face to face?

But I’m fairly new in the position, don’t feel entitled to complain

Don’t think of it as a complaint. Think of it as a clarification, getting on the same page.

and am also bothered that I did in fact agree to this before I knew what the boarder would be like.

Ok so a lesson learned, no worries. I still want to know if you ever see this person or not, do you talk?
I ask because maybe your version of ‘up to par’ is REALLY high, and their’s is 'KINDA LOW"- maybe there’s a middle ground to talk about- yeah, literally TALK about it- you top off the water buckets each morning), and you scoop only the big piles in those stalls and feed them. In the evenings, she does the water as needed (either top off or dump/clean/fill) , she feeds them , AND she picks the stalls and the pee spot. I’m being that granular because the water to me takes longer and is messier in the AM than scooping the big stuff. I would start with talking, or at least you have her phone number and could chat? Please just reset your head to be more CURIOUS and chatty than irritated. That makes a huge difference in how you start, so it influences your success rate at getting on the same page.

Make sense?

[Hippolyta]

I always thought regular picking of sheds/paddocks was standard (every day). Then I moved to another area. It turns out, that it is apparently not standard. In most places near me, if paddocks get picked weekly it is impressive.

As others have said, there needs to be a very specific list of tasks. This should include clear description of expectations for the task (e.g. “Scrub water buckets with brush & rinse” vs “Clean water buckets”). There should also be a discussion of what the standard for each task are (“This is what a clean stall looks like.”)

Post the list on a white board, make a hard copy for each day , with space for initials when each task is done AM & PM.

[candyappy]

@danhelm441

But because she sometimes makes an effort, I don’t feel comfortable “accusing” her to the owner.

Her agreement is to do evening chores. That means she does them every evening, not when she feels like it.

You are not accusing her of something, she is not doing her part and what is required to have partial board.

Tell the BO.

[JanM]

I think most of us are raised to be nice, not make a fuss, and trained to accept getting turned into a doormat. It’s hard to fight back with that programming. I was raised by people who never fought back, took all kinds of bad treatment from relatives, and many others. It’s tough to get past that, and to assert yourself.

There are always people who will try to run over you, but you need to work on fighting that. If it means writing a script for yourself, and practicing what to say, then do that. Also, practice saying no, when someone demands that you take on another job you don’t want to do, just say no. Don’t try to get the other person to agree with you, just say no.

I would make a list of what boarder is supposed to do, and what you’re supposed to do, and send a copy to boarder, and to owner. If barn owner doesn’t want to enforce that, or get you extra help, or if boarder doesn’t want to do their part, then do the minimum for the three horses.

[stryder]

I’d have a chat with the BO along the lines of: "I was agreeable to add these 3 horses to my list, because I assumed we were all on the same page about standards of care. She isn’t, and she’s not consistent in what she does do.

What you and I expect is this: (clean buckets, stalls picked morning and night … whatever)
And what I’m seeing most mornings is this: (and be specific).
Some mornings the work is all done, but not every morning, and there doesn’t seem to be any consistency to it.

I don’t have time to do it before I need to leave for work."

It’s the BO’s problem. You’re alerting her to the situation. She negotiated those horses coming in, but probably is unaware of the situation because you’re extending yourself to try to make it work.

Simple, declarative sentences are your friend.

[Weezer]

This is fantastic advice. I’d do this. Isolate your problem (too many chores in the morning), propose a solution that directly supports that problem (more morning help) and let the barn owner make the connection to evening chores themselves (if they want to).

I used to be a doormat until a few mishaps made me realize that I was not being respected and I did not respect myself. Over time I found the courage to stick up for myself and I realized that 1 - most people are reasonable and understand when we set boundaries; and 2 - for the people who aren’t reasonable, their hurt feelings are not my problem. It takes courage to stop being a doormat but when you become more assertive, you are better positioned to influence and help others - so it’s better for everyone. Good luck!