People who have Morgans for dressage, help me with this neck!

[Abbie.S]

I’ve backed a few horses and retrained a number more, but I have yet to work with a Morgan (which, being in VT my whole life, I don’t know how I managed that :lol:). A good college friend sent me her 6yo Morgan gelding for the winter to train. He’s a blast: great brain, super brave, a little ADD but he’s barely green broke so I expect that.

What I am struggling with is how to wrangle that neck!

I’ve never met a horse with such a Gumby neck: this gelding is the master at bending his neck every which way, and can completely avoid pretty much anything he wants to by wiggling out of it. He has some issues with the bit, so we are working on that separately: right now I’m working with him on the ground (and will progress to a sidepull) to teach him to release the base of his neck, because as gummy as he is, his neck is pretty locked and I need to show him how to mobilize his shoulders. His version of “round” comes from a fake arch in the mid-cervical spine instead of a true lift and telescoping from C6/C7 and the shoulder sling. It’s pretty, but not correct, and he can avoid coming over his back this way.

For those of you who have owned horses with this type of neck setting and tendencies, how have you encouraged “correct” lift? I think when he’s stronger and I’ve shown him how to release the base of his neck from the ground, he will be better, but I can forsee this being an interesting training project from the saddle.

[tabula_rashah]

Ah the Morgan gumby body- I know it very, very well. I don’t do much as far as competitive dressage with my Morgans anymore but I do train a good bit of it.

Morgans in general are crazy smart and have a super work ethic. They are also built to work hard and can go forever. With my guys, I work them in the ring very little- I find that if you want them to work correctly through the body, it’s easier to maybe work them up a hill where that push and lift is already more naturally offered. And then translate that work into ring work.

[buck22]

hahaha, the famous Morgan wriggle!

I my experience, the wriggling and gumby-ness is a symptom of being unsure, excited or lack of strength/coordination. It’s also a clever ploy to distract the rider/handler.

Don’t focus on the wriggling, its a symptom of a problem, not a problem in and of itself. Focus instead on the foundation tools required to get the job done, ie engaging the hind end, learning something new, stretching, etc. With clarity, calmness, ability and understanding the wiggling will magically disappear on its own.

As mentioned, Morgans want to work. They want to work for you. Now. :lol: They’ll happily show you everything they know. Right now. I think they are so focused on pleasing that they get in their own way, and sometimes anxious, or seeming to shut down as a result. Its just that morgan brain going a zillion miles per hour.

Be creative in your search to mobilize his shoulders. Consider working in hand or teaching SI at a walk, etc. until the concept is grasped.

If you feel like you are hitting a wall or can’t get anywhere at all, do something completely different and interesting. Like going over cavaletti, or a easy yet though-provoking trot/jump grid… put the busy brain to work trying to solve a problem. Morgans just love that.

Most of all, be patient and kind with a Morgan. Instead of a system of ask, Tell, NOW, I’ve had much better success setting them up for success, being moderate and consistent in my pressure, and patiently waiting until they’ve exhausted every possible option before trying mine. Once a morgan gets it, he’ll act like he’s been doing it all his life, and probably show off a bit for you.

Also know, once a morgan gets an idea… its written in stone. :lol:

good luck! Fun winter ahead of you!

[workin_onit]

Yes, you need the correct basics, continue riding forward and asking for the contact. Try riding with lighter contact let him meet the bit rather than taking a hold. It takes a bit of schooling to get them in your hand correctly and it is different than riding a warmblood or TB.
Especially work on the connection over the back for long and low. That really helps to loosen the shoulders and the base of the neck. Use spiral in/out to help get the body straighter. Keeping them busy will help cut down on the wiggle.
I still have to get after my guy to get the walk/trot transition straight and we are schooling 2nd level He loves his job and loves to add personality.

[Hampton_Bay]

My Arab had the super wiggly neck as a greenie. He still can flex his neck laterally very easily, while running through his outside shoulder. Not handy when trying to weave through the woods.

I’ve found that using my weight to bend him (weight the outside stirrup, face pelvis where I want him to go), while using less rein, seems to work the best. He will take contact now, but he isn’t a horse that steers well off the reins.

When he was really green, I lunged and rode in a chambon a lot. He was naturally inverted, so the chambon helped him learn to lower his head so he wasn’t so tight in the back. Once his back was stronger and he learned that his head did not belong in my face, he was less wiggly in the front.

[EPat]

I started Dressage on Morgans many years ago. Impulsion (not speed, impulsion) fixes all of the wiggliness.

[enjoytheride]

Go forward. Even if you have to ride him over tempo for periods until his neck straightens out. The more forward he is the less able and likely he will be to gumby his neck. Keep asking him to take contact on a longer rein but do it by pushing and not pulling him there. Once you establish it on the longer rein you can slow down and take shorter reins.

[Obsidian_Fire]

[QUOTE=EPat;8352301]
I started Dressage on Morgans many years ago. Impulsion (not speed, impulsion) fixes all of the wiggliness.[/QUOTE]

@enjoytheride;8352376

Go forward. Even if you have to ride him over tempo for periods until his neck straightens out. The more forward he is the less able and likely he will be to gumby his neck. Keep asking him to take contact on a longer rein but do it by pushing and not pulling him there. Once you establish it on the longer rein you can slow down and take shorter reins.

I will second and third this. My TB can be a gumby and fake you out with a pretty neck. But going super forward on a looser-ish rein helped tremendously!!! I then alternate between the amount of contact I have, insisting that he maintain the forward and the length of the neck in spite of my rein length, and it has worked wonders to develop the strength he needed in the right spots! Now that he’s stronger we can maintain that connection while going slower.

[MsM]

Yeah, Morgans are great at faking the connection. They don’t know they are faking - just one of their versions of trying to do what you want! I found with mine, that doing exercises to loosen the back and get him honestly forward did the most for him. Once he learned how to use himself that way, many of the other issues disappeared. He hated being told he was wrong - got frustrated and anxious, so I had to try to avoid too much correction. He, like most Morgans, was not naturally “long and low” but needed help to find it. (Which was not as long or low as differently built horses, so you cant get to caught up in that) Trot poles did a lot for him in loosening his back and shoulders. It would get him moving more correctly and I could reward that and the lightbulb came on.
I loved the workaholic attitude of my Morgan! Enjoy!

[merrygoround]

Ride the body, not the neck. If you get him circling and turning from his body, the neck will be there in front of the body.

[Zonderpaard]

Some good comments here–I’ll just add watch the levelness of the contact. Insist that the contact is even on both reins. If he takes more weight on one side and bulges the other way in a snake/neck, put the bit in the middle of his mouth and take more feel on the side he ‘lightened’ to make the contact level and then carry on with riding him out to the hand. Lather, rinse, repeat.

This approach, rather than trying to make him level by making him lighten the side he made stronger, is a more positive approach. And will help you make sure he’s not conning you into being crooked.

[KBC]

Good to read this, I have just bought a Morgan/QH x Belgian, but by the sounds of the descriptions here, the Morgan shines through…seems like we will need to keep her busy and thinkng

[Gloria]

Ahh the trial and joy of Morgans.

I will second what already mentioned, focus on the hind ends, and forget the front, for the time being. The wiggle is simply from not engaging the hind ends.

I will very cautiously advise against riding a Morgan over tempo though. That strategy is good for horses with draft blood, which mean most Warmbloods. Morgans tend to be over tempo already, and if you try to ride them over tempo, you are going to run them to the front end into the ground. Instead, SLOW ALLLLL the way down. Anything to require them to slow down and think is a good thing. Cavaletti or hill works are excellent, so are various bending exercises. Get them to work hard, but not fast. Slow and hard are your key. You must sit very quietly, giving no noises, in your seat and your hands. Now I’m sure you know that sitting quietly does not mean sitting stiffly. Your seat must be quiet and fluid. Give them that extra noises, either in your hands or seats, and you get a show Morgan under you, which is good in certain show rings, but probably not what you are looking for.

[LaurieB]

[QUOTE=buck22;8351775]
hahaha, the famous Morgan wriggle!

I my experience, the wriggling and gumby-ness is a symptom of being unsure, excited or lack of strength/coordination. It’s also a clever ploy to distract the rider/handler.

Don’t focus on the wriggling, its a symptom of a problem, not a problem in and of itself. Focus instead on the foundation tools required to get the job done, ie engaging the hind end, learning something new, stretching, etc. With clarity, calmness, ability and understanding the wiggling will magically disappear on its own.

As mentioned, Morgans want to work. They want to work for you. Now. :lol: They’ll happily show you everything they know. Right now. I think they are so focused on pleasing that they get in their own way, and sometimes anxious, or seeming to shut down as a result. Its just that morgan brain going a zillion miles per hour.

Be creative in your search to mobilize his shoulders. Consider working in hand or teaching SI at a walk, etc. until the concept is grasped.

If you feel like you are hitting a wall or can’t get anywhere at all, do something completely different and interesting. Like going over cavaletti, or a easy yet though-provoking trot/jump grid… put the busy brain to work trying to solve a problem. Morgans just love that.

Most of all, be patient and kind with a Morgan. Instead of a system of ask, Tell, NOW, I’ve had much better success setting them up for success, being moderate and consistent in my pressure, and patiently waiting until they’ve exhausted every possible option before trying mine. Once a morgan gets it, he’ll act like he’s been doing it all his life, and probably show off a bit for you.

Also know, once a morgan gets an idea… its written in stone. :lol:

good luck! Fun winter ahead of you![/QUOTE]

Morgans sound like the equine equivalent of Border Collies. :lol:

[tabula_rashah]

[QUOTE=LaurieB;8352624]
Morgans sound like the equine equivalent of Border Collies. :lol:[/QUOTE]

lol- that is exactly how I describe them to people who aren’t familiar with Morgans

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

I am currently reading this thread and laughing! I am leasing a Morgan and sometimes my trainer gets on my case for letting me ‘bully’ me because he always anticipates my asking for the canter. I always say that he isn’t trying to bully me or run away, he just is excited and thinks it is time! His walk is also his worst gait because that’s when he is bored–he needs to be doing something all the time that challenges him. So I am always asking for ‘something’ except when cooling out, even if it is just circling.

I absolutely love him. Everyone is so right about not ‘telling’ or ‘insisting.’ I love the idea of ‘setting him up for success’ instead.

[Ambitious_Kate]

I’ve really had alot of success with all different horses just getting them to use their back and stretch out correctly with side reins on the longe. With the outside rein a couple holes longer than the inside, the horse finds his balance IN the Bend while being asked, in short intervals, to carry himself correctly. Its the correct bend which teaches him to use his shoulders and be through from poll to tail. It really makes sense that its going to be harder for him to find that balance and correctness with you on his back, and he gets to start to build up muscle and topline carrying himself correctly. In the bend, by holding his shoulder up, he learns to really be able to free his shoulder, but it takes conditioning, which really can be done on the longe very nicely. Like yoga.

Most importantly is the exchange between ground work (which is what this longeing it) and the riding - when you ask him for the same use of his shoulders and back which he can do on the longe, he at least knows how to do it - often only can do it for a few steps, then falls off, but every time a little better, because he is being conditiononed correctly on the longe.

Just what has worked for me and what I have seen work for my trainer’s other students as well. Hope that helps.

[beowulf]

I also strongly caution against riding a Morgan over-tempo. I find it can be disastrous, as the little morgan already wants to go a million miles a minute. I never met a Morgan whose default was “easy does it”.

I do, however, think it’s important to get the horse in front of your leg. Morgans are great at faking contact (as are Saddlebreds) in that they can create a frame and lock there… Unlike other horses, they have no problem sending their legs every which way while locked in that position… So you end up galloping down the long-side out of control but the horse looks pretty…

I’ve ridden four morgans and they all needed the same ride. They were not related but it was uncanny how similar they were. Dressage days were kept to a minimum - start out at the walk, do everything - lots of changes of direction, serpentine, shoulder-ins, turn on the haunches - get their necks ahead of you and their body soft… a soft morgan is an amazing feeling. Once you’ve done that, repeat at the trot - add poles, cavaletti, etc. The biggest thing was keeping their shoulders and body feeling pliable - if they started to come “up” they were not relaxed enough.

I also had to laugh at the poster that said they retain EVERYTHING… once you teach a morgan something, it is definitely written in stone. While I was a working student for this trainer, we had a green/young morgan we ran through the chute a few times to see his style O/F. (Small world, he ended up sold to a barn I later worked at!) Well, we stood at the end of the line with a bucket and let him figure it out – jump over the stick, you get a bucket of treats. Imagine my horror when one day I walked by his paddock with that bucket and suddenly he was over the fence and right next to me expecting a treat :eek: We had to caution everyone against using that bucket - and walking by his paddock with one - because he became a repeat offender ONLY when the bucket was about.

They’re very smart, and very kind. I’d love to have one of my own some day.

[Mondo]

Sigh. I hate Morgans for dressage and this is why! (Just kidding!) LOL. I’ve trained a number of them over the years and presently have a student who rides her home bred 18 year old mare. I’ve had to do a lot of remedial work with them, because her previous trainer didn’t get the “gumby” part and the false acceptance of the bit. They are unique in these respects. I finally figured out what was going on and took her back to a snaffle (was in a double) and told her, “your horse doesn’t accept the contact and she doesn’t respect your leg. We are going to go back to the basics for a while.” And we did and it’s working.

[kpony]

Thank you OP for posting this… all the Morgan characteristics ring very true for my little Canadien (a Morgan cousin). :yes: