Perhaps a silly question - fenced garden within a paddock?

[Pehsness]

Has anyone every done that? We only have 2 acres. Some of it is fenced (we borrowed some from neighbour) but in the spring the plan is to fence in more. The whole side piece if I can get my husband on board. I printed off the satellite from google maps and was playing around with it and have what I think is a great layout (that was a brilliant idea, so thank you to those who suggested it!)

But we want a very large vegetable garden. The kind that can incorporate a greenhouse, 3 bin compost, etc. A la Self Sufficient Gardener. If I fence in the paddocks the way I want… well, no room left for a garden. So I thought about putting it in the middle of the paddock, fencing the garden with pickets or something equally charming but solid, and leaving that particular paddock with a grass track around the garden.

Is this a crazy idea? It would let me have a sacrifice area and three grass paddocks in a line (like an L shape, with the bottom of the L being the sacrifice). The paddocks will be separated for rotation, and I thought then the centre one would just have a shorter time in the rotation since it will less over all grass. FWIW I have one old mare who doesn’t move much, a mini who does when he takes a notion, and hopefully plans to get a third riding horse in the next few years (2-5 realistically).

We’ve also planted the seed about borrowing more space from the neighbour, so that discussion will resume in the spring.

[2DogsFarm]

Forget “charming” for fencing off that garden.
You will need something substantial enough to stand up to horses using it as a scratching post or leaning on it to get to the greenery inside.

Murphy’s Equine Law:
“If you build it they will come…and test it”

I have 2 horses - 1 WB, 1 pony - on 2+ac all to themselves - house and lawn/gardens take up the rest of the 5ac total.
I never have to mow the 2’ perimeter just outside the fenceline as apparently that grass is the BEST.
Both routinely stick their heads through my non-electric fencing to graze there.
Plenty grass inside the fences, so go figure…

With just a charming fence separating your garden from your paddock you can probably expect the same result.

Maybe t-posts holding no-climb wire to fence the garden and your pickets inside that?

[Pehsness]

But… I want charming! I think I can still get charming without the pickets… no climb with a top wooden rail maybe? Decorative post caps?

So it’s not a crazy idea provided I can make it horse proof? We really need to maximize space.

[SMF11]

I’d also think of the arrangement with your neighbor (if you agree on one) as “renting” rather than “borrowing”.

[Laurierace]

No reason you can’t have it in the middle of a paddock if it is truly horse proof. Have you ever gardened before? What do you plan to do with all the produce? I have a very small garden, maybe 15X10 not including my strawberry patch and it produces way more than my family can eat over the course of the year. There are times I can’t even keep up with the picking, let alone the eating. You might drown in produce!

[fjordmom]

What about charming with a hot wire around the outside to keep the horses from “snacking”, rubbing, etc?

Also have you looked into the pasture paradise concept. It’s essentially a grass track around an inner fenced off area. Might keep your older horse moving more, which could be good. A friend of mine is a true believer after having reorganized her pastures a few years ago. I haven’t quite gotten there but am planning to.

Oh ya, Laurierace is right. Start small with the garden (even if you leave “expansion space.” Our garden, raspberries, strawberries, grapes and 6 raised veggie beds is hardly more than 40 x 60 more than easily fed a family of 4. Now that we’re empty-nesters we give away more of the over abundance than we keep.) If you go too big, it will soon take more time than the horses unless you are super smart about it. It will be a good place to use the composted manure though:D

[Pehsness]

I’m a big gardener. We preserve a ton of food, so I focus on planting things we like and can preserve. Lots of tomatoes, salsa ingredients, veggies that freeze well. I want a large part of it (1/4 maybe) to be potatoes because they’ll keep for a long time in the cold cellar.

SMF - not sure if snark was intended, I’ll pretend there wasn’t. Should we “borrow” more land from our neighbour it would be a lease arrangement, paying going per acre land rent + a premium to make sure it is beneficial to him financially (would have to replace any foregone profits from his crop). Commodity prices seem to be on their way down, so it might work out in his favor without the premium, but we’re happy to pay it. It’s less than an acre with a lot of turns for the planter/combine so it’s a hassle for them anyway.

[Pehsness]

fjord mom, that’s a great idea about the hot wire… hadn’t actually thought of that (silly, since our fence is equibraid). I have toyed with the paddock paradise idea, but I have to keep my non-horse husband happy with the aesthetics. I do have far off plans to build a riding track around the perimeter of the property at some point, but that’s a long ways away.

[SMF11]

[QUOTE=Pehsness;7851341]

SMF - not sure if snark was intended, I’ll pretend there wasn’t. Should we “borrow” more land from our neighbour it would be a lease arrangement, paying going per acre land rent + a premium to make sure it is beneficial to him financially (would have to replace any foregone profits from his crop). Commodity prices seem to be on their way down, so it might work out in his favor without the premium, but we’re happy to pay it. It’s less than an acre with a lot of turns for the planter/combine so it’s a hassle for them anyway.[/QUOTE]

Oh goodness, no snark intended!

I find HOW one thinks of things can affect one’s actions – I commented only so that the arrangement was thought of more on business terms – which I see it is.

The problem, at least around here, with renting land, is who fences it? (Assuming it is not already fenced). As you know fencing can cost thousands of dollars, whereas rent is super low here, if in fact there is anything paid. I’ve rented a 10 acre field to a friend for $1/year, but he’s put in fencing. Theoretically at the end of the 20 year lease I get the field back, with good fencing.

[Pehsness]

[QUOTE=SMF11;7851355]
Oh goodness, no snark intended!

I find HOW one thinks of things can affect one’s actions – I commented only so that the arrangement was thought of more on business terms – which I see it is.

The problem, at least around here, with renting land, is who fences it? (Assuming it is not already fenced). As you know fencing can cost thousands of dollars, whereas rent is super low here, if in fact there is anything paid. I’ve rented a 10 acre field to a friend for $1/year, but he’s put in fencing. Theoretically at the end of the 20 year lease I get the field back, with good fencing.[/QUOTE]

ah, sorry. I get a bit defensive. I’ve noticed some people on this board immediately assume that if you only own a small bit of land you must be an idiot with no farming background. DH and I have both been immersed in ag for most of our lives, but unfortunately did not inherit 100 acres farms, so our budget dictated these two lovely acres.

Land rent isn’t atrocious around here, 2 - 400/acre depending on if it’s tiled or not. And we would fence it, but that would be a minor cost with the equibraid. It’s more whether or not the farmer wants the possible hassle of the unknown… he doesn’t know if we’ll be a nuisance for him or not, so we’re trying to prove that we won’t be. There’s a barn back there that he’s talking about burying. Burying a barn is very expensive, so to my mind why not lease the barn and a bit of land to us, who will take good care of it, and save yourself the cost and hassle of burying it, and the 10+ years it will take you to turn that bit of field in to productive acreage again. They got no beans off of it this year, it was all weeds because of it’s history of being cow pasture.

[Guilherme]

You could probably make it work but it won’t be “charming.” Horses can be hard on fences (particularly if something good to eat is beyond it). If you “horse proof” it it’s likely to be less than “visually appealing.”

Then there’s the issue of transporting stuff from the garden to the outside and vice versa. You will have two gates to deal with every time you want to enter/exit. And you’ll likely have “help” every time you do. What will be your strategy for dealing with the “help” when you’ve got a load of produce you intend to remove?

In truth if you must use part of the horse paddock for a garden put that at the edge, and probably at a corner. That way you only have to “horse proof” two sides and you can enter and exit without “help.” If you have to water you won’t be running hoses where horses can step on them, play with them, etc. You won’t have to worry about garden detritus getting eaten. It would just solve a lot of potential problems.

Best of luck in what you decide.

G.

[SmartAlex]

You could dress up no climb. Heck, my husband dressed up hog panels
http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/5c/dc/95/5cdc95278e5e0e4df28bdbfaa2927922.jpg

[Pehsness]

Smart Alex, that’ exactly my vision! It’s actually a pretty traditional style of fencing used around old farmhouses. Amish farms still use it a lot today. Is that your garden??

[Pehsness]

[QUOTE=Guilherme;7851577]
You could probably make it work but it won’t be “charming.” Horses can be hard on fences (particularly if something good to eat is beyond it). If you “horse proof” it it’s likely to be less than “visually appealing.”

Then there’s the issue of transporting stuff from the garden to the outside and vice versa. You will have two gates to deal with every time you want to enter/exit. And you’ll likely have “help” every time you do. What will be your strategy for dealing with the “help” when you’ve got a load of produce you intend to remove?

In truth if you must use part of the horse paddock for a garden put that at the edge, and probably at a corner. That way you only have to “horse proof” two sides and you can enter and exit without “help.” If you have to water you won’t be running hoses where horses can step on them, play with them, etc. You won’t have to worry about garden detritus getting eaten. It would just solve a lot of potential problems.

Best of luck in what you decide.

G.[/QUOTE]

This is actually a great idea… This and smartalex’s photo have given me a new idea on how to situate it…

[SmartAlex]

[QUOTE=Pehsness;7851622]
Smart Alex, that’ exactly my vision! It’s actually a pretty traditional style of fencing used around old farmhouses. Amish farms still use it a lot today. Is that your garden??[/QUOTE]

Yes that’s my garden. Good luck with your dream. Planning a garden is a lot of fun. I’d recommend you use the no climb, not the hog panels because of the obvious problem of horses kicking through. Also the no climb will keep out the rabbits and the woodchucks.

ETA: put the no climb on the outside and even with the top of the top rail to discourage chewing

[AnotherRound]

I only just read some of this thread, not all of it, but there are some folks who create pastures as litterally a wide track aroundn the perimeter of the property - say 20 feet wide - and the horse walk around and around grazing on it. You can gallop the grass track, and you can use the center for all kinds of othter things, like an outdoor arena, or, gasp, a garden with greenhouses. I would just put up a double horse proof fences around the perimter of your property and let the horses graze between the two fences. Easy peasy!

[Pehsness]

[QUOTE=AnotherRound;7851797]
I only just read some of this thread, not all of it, but there are some folks who create pastures as litterally a wide track aroundn the perimeter of the property - say 20 feet wide - and the horse walk around and around grazing on it. You can gallop the grass track, and you can use the center for all kinds of othter things, like an outdoor arena, or, gasp, a garden with greenhouses. I would just put up a double horse proof fences around the perimter of your property and let the horses graze between the two fences. Easy peasy![/QUOTE]

believe me… I’ve thought about it… it’s just keeping dh happy that I need to worry about as well. He’s got big plans for this place that aren’t always in line with mine… we’re going to have to compromise somewhere.

[Pehsness]

[QUOTE=SmartAlex;7851782]
Yes that’s my garden. Good luck with your dream. Planning a garden is a lot of fun. I’d recommend you use the no climb, not the hog panels because of the obvious problem of horses kicking through. Also the no climb will keep out the rabbits and the woodchucks.

ETA: put the no climb on the outside and even with the top of the top rail to discourage chewing[/QUOTE]

It’s perfect!! Absolutely stunning. I hope you don’t mind if I replicate it.

[LLee]

What little I know about horses does include a list of poisonous plants. Among the nasty veggies is potato greens, tomato greens, eggplant, and anything else from the nightshade family. Sooooo, before you plant, be sure to NOT include anything in your garden that will kill your horses when they figure out a way to cheat your fence line. And they will cheat your lines:mad:

[nhhaflngr]

We have had a garden inside the pasture for years. Not as beautiful as the one (picts in an earlier post) made with hogpanels, but it works. Hot wire keeps them out. I do grow tomatoes and eggplant and the equines have never tried to eat those (and that would be an always hungry Haflie and two donkeys notorious for eating anything!) They just don’t have any interest.
They will eat any extra cukes thrown their way, and any pumpkins or squash that go past the boundaries, and love the sunflowers at the end of the season.
And it is nice to have their company nearby when I am out there weeding… have fun with it!:yes: