Permanent Fence Posts

[Vindicated]

I know this has been discussed to death, but I need some insite from the smartest horse people…

I have 3 options for perimeter fence posts (also open to new suggestions). My plan is to slowly work on it by myself as I have time-I only have about 200 LF ready to install right now.

Current Plan is to do post & Rail 9.5 lf fence post spacing: Replace with Flex fence once I have the entire perimeter open.
This is a true perimeter fence, there is interior electric fencing throughout.

I have a very high water table, and plan on cementing everything in. I need about 225 once it is all said and done, so the $3 Price difference between option 1 & 3 ends up being about a $675 difference.

1. Railroad tiles about $9 per.
   Pros: They seem to last forever (?), Cheapest option, already brown, Strong
   Cons: I cannot move them by myself (I have no machinery), I have to order them in multiples of 50 for delivery, I have to dig a wider hole (Again no machinery). They don’t seem to hold paint well, in case I decide I don’t like brown.

2. 4x4 pressure treated for ground contact (from lumber yard)
   About $10.50 per.
   Pros: I can pick up 4 or 5 at a time, as I have time/money/energy. I can pick them up by myself. Very Paintable, pretty durable, smaller hole
   Cons: not as strong (can be snapped).

3. Actual round fence posts 5" Pressure treated. About $12 per
   Pros: I can pick up as needed, I can move myself, Paintable. Small ish hole. Not square.
   Cons: I never expect these to actually last, it seems they rot quickly

Any better options? Thoughts? I honestly cannot decide…

[Bombproof]

You can also use steel t-posts and put a PVC sleeve over them. Total cost about $10-12 depending upon where you get them and how many you buy at a time. The advantage is that you drive them which is faster and less labor-intensive than digging holes.
https://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=30e0735b-7b6a-11d5-a192-00b0d0204ae5&sfb=1&itemguid=30e0936e-7b6a-11d5-a192-00b0d0204ae5&utm_content=22316&ccd=IFM003&mr:trackingCode=814BC464-3C81-E211-BA78-001B21631C34&mr:referralID=NA&mr:device=c&mr:adType=plaonline&mr:ad=41953552843&mr:keyword=&mr:match=&mr:filter=84958370923&gclid=CjwKEAjwxYGuBRCtoqjkrIPDqDwSJAAnd-rCFbE0CDbb3YfC6b8AgoK8_MEphH0ks6QJ74IU3RfXFRoC1F3w_wcB

[Vindicated]

[QUOTE=Bombproof;8257591]
You can also use steel t-posts and put a PVC sleeve over them. Total cost about $10-12 depending upon where you get them and how many you buy at a time. The advantage is that you drive them which is faster and less labor-intensive than digging holes.
https://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=30e0735b-7b6a-11d5-a192-00b0d0204ae5&sfb=1&itemguid=30e0936e-7b6a-11d5-a192-00b0d0204ae5&utm_content=22316&ccd=IFM003&mr:trackingCode=814BC464-3C81-E211-BA78-001B21631C34&mr:referralID=NA&mr:device=c&mr:adType=plaonline&mr:ad=41953552843&mr:keyword=&mr:match=&mr:filter=84958370923&gclid=CjwKEAjwxYGuBRCtoqjkrIPDqDwSJAAnd-rCFbE0CDbb3YfC6b8AgoK8_MEphH0ks6QJ74IU3RfXFRoC1F3w_wcB[/QUOTE]

How do I nail a wooden 1x6 fence board to that?

[Bombproof]

[QUOTE=Vindicated;8257613]
How do I nail a wooden 1x6 fence board to that?[/QUOTE]

You don’t. There’s some kind of fastener but I don’t know exactly what it is.

[King_s_Ransom]

Really, don’t do RR ties. They are just awful. I had some on my property when I bought it. They are ugly. Really ugly. They are huge. Really huge. They rot (maybe everything rots eventually, but don’t think they don’t rot because they do!). They lean. They do NOT hold paint. And you need a bulldozer to get them out. And when you do get them out, the hole they leave behind could swallow you whole (I’m not really exaggerating by much!)

If they catch fire, the smoke is toxic and it’s really hard to put out. (How might they catch fire? If you burn your fields, don’t ask me how I know…)

Really, friends don’t let friends use RR ties for fence posts!

[PeanutButterPony]

#3.

Square 4X4s are puny and always seem to warp and twist over time. They’ll skew your fence. And RR ties are hideous.

dig hole- set pole -fill bottom with concrete - top with fill dirt and tamp hole.

[Bluey]

We used railroad ties forever.
I can lift one by myself, all 4’11" of me, stand it on end and walk it over to where I need it, even the 9 footer monsters.
I rebuilt by myself one whole set of working cattle pens, using 800 railroad ties.
They are still standing, straight and working fine as posts.

Or use a large tamping bar or pipe to roll them by the hole and then lift them, one end already in the hole.

They don’t lean if you set them deep enough and ours held turquoise paint, our barn colors, better than the boards that were nailed on them.

We still are using some that we first used in 1951, not all rot here, although some do.

Any more, we use 2 3/8" or 2 7/8" pipe for posts, pounded in or in a 8" hole with concrete.

Ok, as fence posts, I give you they are ugly, can’t get around that and no, you don’t want to try to burn them, they smolder a stinky smoke forever.

If you are going to use concrete, railroad ties don’t need any, they tamp down fine on their own and are not really that prone to rot from waterlogged soils.

If you were using woven wire, like v-mesh, railroad ties are very good for that, the best maybe and you can’t see them that well then.

For what you want, you probably want other, maybe whatever kinds of wood products you have up there?

[Snowflake]

If you use RR ties in a high water table area and are on a well, I’d worry about the chemicals from the RR ties getting into the drinking water. You can do the flexfence on the t-post sleeves and they make matching vinyl sleeves for your 4x4 corners. Just put a post cap on top to finish it off. If it were me, I’d do one row of the flexfence at the top and then either coated wire or 2" electric tape underneath and replace the 2" electric tape as the budget permits. I’d skip replacing boards you’ve nailed/screwed in. Resale on used/weathered lumber is pretty poor but you should be able to sell the coated wire or electric tape pretty easily.

[Vindicated]

[QUOTE=Snowflake;8257818]
If you use RR ties in a high water table area and are on a well, I’d worry about the chemicals from the RR ties getting into the drinking water. You can do the flexfence on the t-post sleeves and they make matching vinyl sleeves for your 4x4 corners. Just put a post cap on top to finish it off. If it were me, I’d do one row of the flexfence at the top and then either coated wire or 2" electric tape underneath and replace the 2" electric tape as the budget permits. I’d skip replacing boards you’ve nailed/screwed in. Resale on used/weathered lumber is pretty poor but you should be able to sell the coated wire or electric tape pretty easily.[/QUOTE]

I agree-However, I have to work with the areas of perimeter fence that are currently able to be worked on. I cannot stretch anything that resembles a line.
I plan on using the boards as fence boards for my arena-Won’t have extra useless word, just re-purposing.

Also, I should have mentioned. T-posts don’t seem to be working on my property. My soil is just about 100% clay and when the ground gets saturated…

I have about 45 in use on the interior fencing. 7’ pounded 2’ in and the still lean with just rope attached.

[Vindicated]

These?
http://www.menards.com/main/building-materials/fencing/wood-fencing/4-x-8-ac2-pressure-treated-gc-round-fence-post/p-1414433-c-5774.htm

Or These?
http://www.menards.com/main/building-materials/fencing/wood-fencing/5-x-8-ac2-pressure-treated-gc-round-fence-post/p-1414435-c-5774.htm

[Huntin_Pony]

You might want to check prices on “3/4 round” posts. Much easier to nail boards to, although probably more expensive. Half rounds are available more places and for less money but they do rot and have to be replaced more often.

Personally, 5" would be min diameter for me.

ETA: I wonder if your “friendly” fence contractor could get you a deal on some materials from his volume supplier?

[Tom_King]

With wet ground, railroad ties will have a much shorter life than you might think. I’d cross them off your list.

[Tom_King]

Also, today’s treated posts actually have their life shortened by being in concrete. It’s not like what we knew as “treated” lumber 20 years ago. I had one gate post of the new stuff that lasted less than 10 years in concrete. It was a 4x6 ground contact.

[gumtree]

Not really sure what you are putting up. Board fencing or Flex Fencing, like Ramm Flex rail?

If board, what are you using, Oak, pine, pressure treated pine, hemlock?

[SMF11]

Locust.

[AppJumpr08]

[QUOTE=Vindicated;8258070]

Also, I should have mentioned. T-posts don’t seem to be working on my property. My soil is just about 100% clay and when the ground gets saturated…

I have about 45 in use on the interior fencing. 7’ pounded 2’ in and the still lean with just rope attached.[/QUOTE]

Pound them in deeper. Really.
I have an insanely high water table as well, and soil that goes positively soupy in the spring. Along with high winds, it’s a location that is death on fencing. The T-posts are the only posts I can keep upright in the low areas (besides the little fiberglass posts).

The key is figuring out how far down your hard pan is… And get the posts set deep enough that they make the transition from topsoil to the next layer down.

Good luck… I’m six years in on this farm and still searching for the best fence post answer I can find.

[Hermein]

How about used oil field pipe? You can attach your rails with “U” shaped hardware. I have no idea how much it costs. Probably not too bad if you’re in an oil field sort of place.

[Vindicated]

How tall do they make T’s? Ours are approx 2’ to 2.5’ down. So my fence is between 5’ & 4.5’. I don’t really want a fence shorter than that.
Where do I find Locust? It was my first choice, but no one atound here has a clue where I can buy them. Lumber mill, saw mill, feed mill…
I can import them to me, but that is really not cost effective.

[Vindicated]

So, back to the black locust poles.
Research suggests that they may be exactly what I want.
Any input?

Does anyone know of a supplier in MI, northern to central IL, IN, or OH, or southern WI? Would be willing to drive 4-5 hours (one way) if this is my answer. I am a bit north of Kalamazoo.

[gumtree]

You didn’t answer my question so I am not able to go into much detail. I’ve put up miles and miles of board fencing. I only use oak board. Locust post first choice. But the installer will need a nail gun. Hammering a nail through oak boards into locust post will be VERY slow going without one. An amateur will need to pre-drill each hole.

We also use 4X6 pressure treated pine post. Standard length of all fence post is 8’. Oak boards are always 16’, oak slip boards generally 12’ when used with a 10 spacing. 4X6 pressure treated pine and locust post cost between $12-14 per around here. Less in quantity.

I don’t paint. Too much of a maintenance hassle. Oak weathers nicely IMO. Paint once you have to keep doing it every couple of years depending on local weather conditions.

I would not use round posts if installing boards. Especially the small round that has been referenced. Not enough surface area to nail to making installation a PITA. Because of the lack of surface area the boards are nailed to they tend to warp with time. Half rounds are a much better choice. More surface area to nail to and superior strength verses round.

Fencing material availability is area specific. If not located in a “horsey” area where there is a healthy demand for horse fencing the choice of materials and installers will be limited and expensive.

Around here oak is plentiful and so is locust. Locust is a fast growing tree. Installation cost generally runs about twice the cost of materials. Posts are always pounded in. Far superior to any other method. 3 board oak runs around $5-6 per foot. Slip board a bit less.

Contrary to advertising a properly installed oak fence is every bit as safe as synthetic. For every “accident” I have heard with board fencing. I have heard the same with “synthetic”. Board fencing is far easier to install. IMO and experience fencing by and large comes down to the cost and availability of materials in the area being installed.

Board will look every bit as good if installed properly and will last for 20+ years as “synthetic”. I have never found the maintenance to be that much of a problem.

I would not use R-R ties. They look “out of proportion”, for the job, are a PITA to work with. Most used ones I have seen are creosote treated which will leach into the ground and water table. A lot of states do not allow the use of creosote treated materials for fencing.

This is a link to some picture of our fencing. We have a couple of miles of it.

http://s1136.photobucket.com/user/gumtreestables/library/Horse%20Fencing%20Oak%20Slip%20board%20and%20Oak%20nailed?sort=3&page=1