What difference does it makes whether the mare looks sound to you yes or no? It is all in the past, no reason to get into it. Wouldn’t make anybody better. IT would only be a useless discussion, so go and do something useful that makes somebody feel better.
I completely see Bellfleurs enchantment with this mare. She is dazzling.
Wow she’s stunning. Just curious, Bellfleur how many hands is she? I can see where you fell in love with her too.
My user name is from a OTTB I had as a teen.
Sorry marieke, but I have a point. The action of the horse’s hocks is jerky especially in the work that requires more engagement. They can hide lameness with medication, but they can’t hide that, because that is joint function. If anyone could possibly benefit from knowing to look for that, it would be very useful to say so.
Sorry marieke, but I have a point.
:lol:
Must make it hard to find hats.
Boy, using that video to market really shows their intent to deceive. You KNOW they must have had LOTS of video from competitions. Fancy turnout, fancy venue, etc.
[QUOTE=slc2;3429698]
Sorry marieke, but I have a point. The action of the horse’s hocks is jerky especially in the work that requires more engagement. They can hide lameness with medication, but they can’t hide that, because that is joint function. If anyone could possibly benefit from knowing to look for that, it would be very useful to say so.[/QUOTE]
Slick, I think Rood and Riddle could use you as a diagnostician, lack of degree be damned. You are truly a lameness finding wunderkind. I wish I had your eye…
Sadly, PF, slc will think you are serious and will have even greater difficulty finding hats what with The Point and all.
Hindsight is 2020, isn’t it?
Bellfleur, I can see why you liked her a lot. :yes:
You have a PM
Hindsight’s not 20-20 in this case. I saw this video a little while ago and thought the same thing. The action of the hocks is jerky, it’s not smooth.
It’s not that it proves anything one way or the other, that requires films and a vet. It’s just a red flag for me.
For the love of all that is holy…
I think 99% of horses out there are lame to my eye (only slight exaggeration). I will not comment on my thoughts on the video of the mare in this thread, except to say that she is LOVELY and I’ll bet her foals are all that and a bag of chips.
But I’ve had a lot of training. I’ve worked with many of the best “leg men” on the east coast. That is not a brag, that is just the facts.
There is nothing on this video that should give any average (or even more than average) horse person a “red flag”. Seriously. (And to say so, IMO, is a slap in the face to Bellfleur) Slick, unless I missed you in the back of class, you DO NOT have the training and experience, without the hindsight of all the discussion on this thread, to make a statement like that. You.simply.don’t. Not that this stops you from opining on every conceivable training method/ailment/divorce proceedings/organic gardening thread in existence. Not that you won’t post a pithy reply to me and continue with business as usual.
You think she’s “hitchy” behind–well bless your heart. I bet she has no hock issues at all. I bet her hocks are fine even now. You just like to play the know it all.
I have no training or experience in IT/computer/technology. I don’t pretend I do. Please don’t pretend you are so well versed in all the facets of lameness and leave that to the experts in that field.
Off soap box, thank you all for coming…
I did not say hitchy (which I think means hiking up one hip with the hock), I said the motion of her hocks is not smooth.
drummm rollllllllllllllllllll
and entrance please slc2
the ring is your osyster hahahaha
I think SLC pointed to the one thing that isn’t wrong with the mare.
And I agree with Ponyfixer, to say so is a slap in Bellfleurs face, RUDE and completely useless. Instead of making you look like an expert, it has made you look like a fool. The boomerang flew right back into your face, SLC.
Again, I can totally see why Bellfleur fell in love with her, and I bet even now she is still stunning. And I’m sure her offspring will be top notch.
As to not having major competition footage. When I was traveling around with a team rider, the owners rarely made footage, I’m sure there is some around, but not necessarily there has to be alot.
Since I purchased her (and ran into so many problems) I have met many people who knew her in Europe when she was competing and they said Fancy moved a bit funny at times but never seemed lame. They also said she competed many times at 9 and 10, hence after when this video must have been taken. It is how I found out she was a brilliant mare and highly thought of in Germany.
When I bought her I thought I was the only one that thought her special. Ok Yes my hair is naturally blonde (or it was!) :eek:
I would assume that they do drug testing in Germany before competitions too but I might be wrong. Since she was scoring that highly to be competing against the kind of people and horses that she was and winning, the judges there must have thought she was sound also. It wasn’t like she was competing at the local un-rated show down the lane.
I personally thought she was not ridden the best in this video. She does not step as far under or push as well with her right hind. it is not by very much but it is there. I don’t think she looks over her back and into the bridle. I thought that was causing her some issues.
I thought that the rider could have had a quieter more following seat (it looked to me like she is bracing against Fancy with both seat and hand most of the time - if you watch closely she bounces every trot/passage/piaffe about 4 inches up and off the saddle and slaps back down) but I figured what did I know it was Germany so it must be better. Since they have better horses and riders and everything right?
In person Fancy has an overwhelming presence to her even when she is not moving. She just acts almost as if she knows she is royalty. It is not just me either other people see her when they walk through the barn and go who is that one?
Her one daughter looks to carry that same star too. I can only hope. Another foal on the way too!
She is 17 hands.
I wish I had a video of when she was competing too!! I do not remember but she was either 5th, 6th, 7th I think at the Nurnberger Burgpokal Finals. I would have loved to have that for the foals sales videos!!!
Actually the only reason that video was posted on the Youtube was that a potential buyer wanted to see the video of her.
PS To all of you who think she is stunning. Thank you very much. I completely agree. Anyone who doesn’t, just well doesn’t. Who cares? I know she is brilliant and perfect. Each to his / her own.
AND I might add so are her foals and they have started out brilliantly. One daughter was named Champion Filly for her Hanoverian Inspection and it was said about the other at her German Oldenburg Verband Inspection “This is the foal of a lifetime for any breeder in any country” That is the German Verband and they said that about Fancy’s daughter so I guess we are breeding a little better here in the USA now. :winkgrin: Since I am not selling I guess it really doesn’t count though. :lol:
I think we should all post on which bling we think will look best on all of her matching foals for when they are 3 and we take them all together in the class.
And on which professionals should get the ride. Remember we need matching ones!! :D:D:D
Fancy’s riding career is, unfortunately for all, over.
I can and will make things better for her son (although I probably will sell him also) and daughters. I am expecting another foal via embryo transfer but will probably sell that one (hopefully still in in-utero so I do not see it and fall in love with that one too!! Just what I need one more solid black colt or filly!:yes::yes::yes::yes:) as I think two super mares from her enough and I have no intention of raising another stallion prospect. I am starting to feel like a collector instead of a breeder!! Yikes.
Hitchy/hocky/jerky/sticky
coke/pop/soda
yawn
Bellfleur, I felt much the same as you watching the video. There was the occasional odd step (front and hind). She looks like a pelvis/SI horse–not connected/over the back through the caudal back (thoracic/lumbar) vs. the cranial back or wither (cervical/thoracic). I assumed she must just have a really hard trot to sit re: the rider. Nothing there screams to me “run away” however, especially since upper level horses usually carry some sort of physical baggage. I don’t think you watched with rose colored glasses.
Good luck with all those babies…way to make lemonade!!!
Actually she was really, really comfortable and was easy to ride / sit.
The only thing I had a problem with was finding her half halts. They were not really from my seat and I could not find them so easily. I never got to ride her enough to find them consistently either.
The pro that road her for me in the trot sets while the vet was trying to get her sound again found them right away but then he said “this one wasn’t done correctly was she” but he actually was fully confident that what he was asking for was right whereas I kept thinking Oh God what am I doing on this mare I am so clueless.
I knew before I bought her I was pretty clueless but it is mind blowing when a brilliant GP horse let you know just how clueless you are. I could just hear her going OH JEEZ Do you even know what it is you want!! Talk about humbling life experiences. :o
Bellfluer, check your PMs!
I like her a lot and can see your fascination with her. I am still at a loss when and where she has ranked 10th with the FN. The only entries I couldn’t find for her in are for the Burgpokal qualifier at Munich in 2005 (so would have been her 10yo season) and she placed 12th there. She is not listed amongst the qualified horses of any Burgpokal final and she most certainly she was not among the top 10 in dressage in this country at any given time. This is Germany. We write everything down. Our life is a book. If she ranked 10th in an FN list she most definitely did not in this country. This is all very strange.
I don’t take issue with the seller not having show footage for a video. Germans typically don’t collect extensive videography. Besides as soon as a trainer or agency is involved they are generally rather unwilling to give out show footage to clients they don’t know as it is very easy to abuse an agency to obtain informations and then go straight to the owner which is easily tracked down as soon as the horse has a number attached to its head.
Really lovely horse. Rather expensive for a permanent retirée I suppose but lucky her she ended up with you and not someone else. She seems to like it in her new home otherwise she would probably not do so well in the breeding.
I still don’t see how your experience is anything that could not have happened in North America. At least here we have extensive record-keeping and life-ID’s that allow for verification (or falsification in this case) of otherwise anecdotal horse-seller’s tales.
With regard to Germans telling you she moved ‘occasionally funny’ this sounds like nothing but horse-show smalltalk and would be by no means information I would regard as significant. Lord if someone came up to me with a story like yours and asked about whether or not I thought the horse had always moved 100% (which horse does?!) anytime I had seen it I would probably say I thought I had seen it take a funny step every now and then only to be polite and not make you feel even more miserable in your drama.
I’m really sorry you have spent this kind of money and had to go through whatever lead to the result you have right now. But it really doesn’t jump at me as being a typical experience of international horse-shopping.
To Bellfleur: Who is Imperator?
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