No, not really. Nothing beyond a kick or two up in the air in protest of the rump strap at first, but never anything dangerous. We would of course start them very loose (not flapping in the wind unsafely, just loose enough to be basically no contact) and very gradually (over the first session or over many sessions depending on horse) snug it up. Caveats being that the horse is already generally competent and safe on the lunge, and generally familiar with and accepting of tack/side reins/surcingle/etc.
I have a youngster who’s a little sensitive and her possible reaction to it is something I wondered as well, but I think like everything else it’s something you can expose them to over time and eventually use without issues.
I dislike the Pessoa Rig. The bumping on the mouth with each hind leg stretch discourages/confuses the horse about contact, particularly at the walk and canter, when the horse should be reaching out in front at the same time as this rig will be bumping them in the mouth. So I guess, before you use it, ask what you are trying to achieve? Use of hind end? Unlikely as the horse will respond to the greater pain (the bit) rather than the pressure behind. If you just want submission, then it may be effective in that way, but there are far better training tools.
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I use mine with a homemade lunging cavesson. And I’d do that, too, for side reins, which I own and don’t use. I can better create “throughness”-- from back hoof all the way up to the head-- in a Pessoa system than I can in side reins. Or, rather, I’d have to drive harder in order to produce the swing in the back that I can get with a Pessoa system rather than side reins.
I’m not a fan of the philosophy behind side reins, for most horses and for horses that I ride. That is to say, I don’t think it’s realistic to ask a horse to just push up into a rather inert, stable-to-the-point-of-being-dull contact. I really only put a bit in a horse’s mouth if I am prepared to ride him well and “feelingly” with my hands. If I can’t do that, he ought not to have a bit in there; I can find other pieces of equipment or things to do with him that don’t require a bit that could be used too hard or without enough quick release when I want it to let go and reward the horse.
I so think it’s helpful to have a way to work a horse in a correct, back-to-front way of going that does not involve a rider. The Pessoa system isn’t the only way to get that, of course. But if you can’t lunge really well or double lunge or long-line for some reason, it’s a nice substitute.
To answer the OP’s question: I don’t know if I’d use it on an unstarted three-year-old, only because I prefer to get the babies broke before I get them strong. Why make them able to buck big during the phase in their career where they are most likely to think that it might help them out of a tough situation? LOL. But for a horse who needed some correct work without a rider-- young, weak, rehabbing, with a saddle that doesn’t fit/trying to build him up so a saddle will fit, any of this correct type of lunging is a helpful adjunct to riding, IMO.
That’s even better than what I do. I love the idea of them being loose. It’s just them an the ropes, and they can figure out self-carriage themselves!
Also, OP, remember that maintaining this correct posture in a sustained way is a lot of work. Just 15 minutes might be enough for a horse.
Absolutely. From what I am reading(all great input), it looks like very short sessions will be the main objective when looking at the length of the sessions. My goals with this is to help encourage self carriage. Use this as a training took maybe once a week in conjunction with under saddle work that I already do. I own young horses and bring them up myself so this Pessoa Rig made me wonder if it could be something to add to my existing program. Lots of valuable feedback. Appreciate it everyone.
I don’t know what your philosophy for side reins are.
I only work my horses in side reins fot a short time as 10 minutes is equal to an hour of work.
With correct work there should be no cracking of the lunge whip. He goes more forward when the lunge whip is held higher. He collects more when the lunge whip is lowered. I use a voice command as well. There is no driving hard as you say. The hindquarters are working, the poll is the highest. I do not use them in walk.
It is not an inert, stable to the point of dull contact at all. He is through and is using his back. I use reins without elastic and I will never use elastic again. Elastic, the horse pulls, the elastic gives - and it teaches them to pull and to lean. This I think is what you are talking about. Horses that are heavy on the hand.
I cut off the donut. I use solid side reins. The horse pulls, the sidereins do not pull as a lot of rider’s hands do. It holds, when the horse gives it gives. Voila the horse has been taught to give, (this is NOT taught with tight side reins) and you end up with a soft contact with a horse who understands correct contact, has confidence in the bit and submits.
I see CHT sees the same as me with the bumping in the mouth as the legs move back in the pessoa.
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I have, but often I find myself using a chambon instead because it takes a good 10 minutes to untangle the thing and put it on. :lol: Also, for TBs, the rig can create sore backs VERY quickly (since they’re using muscles they haven’t used before), so literally even 5 minutes at first is plenty. Err on the side of caution in terms of time.
I’ve also found that the Pessoa rig’s butt strap needs to be super loose when you first hook it up - like literally right above their hocks. Once they start moving, the strap will move up to its appropriate spot. Otherwise, if you start with it mid-butt, it ends up going too high.
I generally work longer than 10 minutes, but I never take a horse cold and put on a rig (pessoa or side reins), I generally start with 5 minutes with nothing, WTC, then add the device at a very loose attachment (long and low or something equivalent) and then bring it in a bit tighter every 2-3 minutes, changing direction every 2-3 minutes. So we hit about 5 minutes in the most advanced position the horse is reasonably capable of accepting, and then I generally finish off with 2 minutes in each direction with nothing on (or attached). It’s always interesting to compare the first 2 minutes to the final two minutes when it comes to self carriage. So while there may only be 5 minutes of hard work, there’s usually 20-30 minutes of work, many changes of direction and a lot of changes in circle size as well.
