PETA: Has anyone seen the Huffington Post?

[QUOTE=LauraKY;7261147]
Further in the above linked article:

The truth is always somewhere in the middle and never forget, everyone has an agenda.

There’s more, but you’d have to read the article or actually research the trial.[/QUOTE]

I’ve read the trial transcripts; I remember when this happened. It wasn’t long ago.

You are entirely ignoring the perfectly healthy animals PETA took from at least two veterinarians who testified that the animals were fine & certainly healthy & adoptable and they were merely were seeking homes for them and the doctors were heartbroken to find out the fate of those poor kittens. But that “truth” you ignore.

You ignore that the shelters turned over to PETA the animals that had a good chance of being adopted. You ignore that truth as well.

You also ignore the truth that PETA employees LIED - they LIED as to what was going to happen to all those animals they would load up in their van. They LIED.

Despicable, disgusting, worthless human beings who aren’t to be trusted further than I can spit. To condone PETA’s lying, cheating, murdering ways because you want animals to be killed by freakin’ amateurs in the back of a van instead of by the shelter is pathetic. You cannot deny that the goal of PETA is the elimination of ALL human-animal interaction and relationships and the extermination of all domestic animals. That’s the stated goal of PETA. I don’t support that and I never will.

My heart broke for the torment those shelter workers felt after they found out what happened to those animals. Volunteers invest their emotion into these animals and yearn for them to find homes. Imagine how they felt when they found out those animals didn’t go to sanctuaries, they went to a dumpster behind a grocery store!

I would be obligated as a good person to piss on PETA if it were on fire, but I’d only do it because it was the right and decent thing for decent human beings to do.

F*&%k PETA :mad:
Paula

The truth is for dang sure not always in the middle. What an idiotic statement to keep repeating in this situation.

[QUOTE=mary tully;7259485]
Hi Alagirl :slight_smile: A minor correction or two! PETA was not a defendant in the case you’re referring to. And the actual defendants in that case were found not guilty of obtaining animals under false pretenses. In fact, they were exonerated of all the charges against them.[/QUOTE]

Exonerated is a word used for convicted persons who are later found innocent; never having committed the crime they were found guilty of.

This is a different term than ‘not guilty’ verdict rendered because their admitted actions, though heinous and loathsome, were not criminal in the jurisdiction where they committed those acts.

To mislead people and imply one thing when you plan to do another may not be illegal, but it is immoral deception, none the less.

[QUOTE=D_BaldStockings;7261349]
Exonerated is a word used for convicted persons who are later found innocent; never having committed the crime they were found guilty of.

This is a different term than ‘not guilty’ verdict rendered because their admitted actions, though heinous and loathsome, were not criminal in the jurisdiction where they committed those acts.

To mislead people and imply one thing when you plan to do another may not be illegal, but it is immoral deception, none the less.[/QUOTE]

‘Not Guilty’ =/= innocent…

Their legal teams teach them which key words to use with any public communications for the most impact and to project an innocence perception.

They also had a memo given to any PETA staff that were making trips into NC to “help” that were for educating their staff on what to expect, why they were going there, how to react around the people there and what questions to ask them.
In a PETA field manual entitled: Communications Protocol for North Carolina
Attorneys had a copy of it (found in the van) and had Hinkle read from it during the trial:

"They always have their dogs run loose in the country, and that’s probably how they got the dog in the first place. And they may never have heard of keeping a big dog in the house. They really, in most cases, just do not know any better. Yes, it sucks. And it’s tough and frustrating, and we come upon a lot of neglect and cruelty. But remember that they have no standard of comparison until we show them a better way. They’ve grown up that way. They’re socialized that way. They haven’t seen anything different.

They were also asking even law enforcement if they had pets, what kind and “Where do you keep them?”

As for telling people what they were doing:
Ms. Ray works at the animal hospital where the cat and kittens were picked up and was present when Ms. Hinkle was handed the animals.

Ray: “Adria took them, and she held the carrier up like this, and she said ‘Oh, we shouldn’t have any trouble finding homes for them.’”

Asbell: “After she said that, or before she said that, what did you think Ms. Hinkle was going to do when she carried the cat and the two kittens out?”

Ray: “I thought she was going to take them and try to find homes for them.”

Asbell: “And—had you thought she was going to do anything otherwise, would you have handed those kittens over to her?”

Ray: "No. I wouldn’t have called them [PETA] in the beginning.

Ms. Dunlow was also present at the time and talked to Ms. Hinkle.

Dunlow: “Tonya held up the carrier to, like, face level. And Adria was looking into the carrier, saying ‘Oh! They’re so cute!’ At that point, Tonya was telling her that we’ve had them for several weeks, they were very socialized, they were very healthy, and that we hoped they would be able to find homes for them. At that point, Adria said ‘We shouldn’t have any problems finding homes for these kittens. They’re absolutely gorgeous! Do they have names?’”
Brown: Have PETA employees ever represented the organization as a pet-adoption service?

Dunlow: “Yes, [PETA] employees in the past had told me specifically that they placed these animals in homes.”

Brown: “Guaranteed?”

Dunlow: “Well, they were hopeful. Just like I was hopeful. They didn’t say that they’d transport the animals and kill them before they crossed the state line.”

*Remember the cat and kittens were picked up from a vet’s office and NOT a shelter. No worries about them being PTS, they were told PETA has a bigger pool of possible adopters up in VA.
PETA took them just to euthanize animals not in danger of being euthanized…they were only in danger of being adopted and “owned.”

As for the animals being sick, one single dog was chosen for a necropsy. The only one wearing a collar. The “sick” reason given was that the animals were probably exposed to parvo.
Dr. Steven Rushton, Dept of Ag, did the necropsy.

Asbell: “Ms. Stevenson asked you a question about diagnosing the Parvo virus, and I believe your answer was that the best way to diagnose it was from a gross examination, which is what you did?”

Rushton: “Yes.”

Asbell: “All right. And this particular dog, that dog that you did an examination of, did not have the Parvo virus?”

Rushton: “No.”

PETA had a form letter sent out to anyone and everyone who ever asks about the petakillsnanimals.com website. It was signed “PETA Staff” and this is a direct quote from that form letter (thousands went out to explain the ‘falsehoods’ on that website)
This was the wording from a March 2005 form letter, right after the petakills website went up but right before the dumpster divers were arrested:

"We do not run a traditional shelter. In fact, we refer every healthy, cute, young animal we can to shelters. And some of the animals we rescue are lost companions whom we are able to joyfully reunite with their families. Of the homeless animals we take in ourselves, the healthy and adoptable ones are fostered, adopted, or taken to local shelters."

3 weeks after the arrest of Hinkle and Cook, they removed this underlined quoted part from the form letters. Yet people will believe PETA because they heard directly from them. sigh

They even offered to help this county’s actual ACO Barry Anderson find a new home for one of his own many dogs, a terrier named Happy. They killed Happy too. Without telling Mr Anderson. Then sent him photos of the dog in it’s new home. But those were taken on the drive back to VA, the dog was euthanized as soon as they got to PETA headquarters.

Anderson: “I knew that by talking to Ms. Hinkle that she could possibly find a home for it, someone that was looking for a good dog … To my understanding, she found a home for it in Virginia .”

Hinkle: “the only time I can remember leaving with a dog alive would have been Happy.”

Asbell: "How did these pictures get back in the possession of [Animal Control Officer] Barry Anderson?

Hinkle: “I sent them to him.”

Asbell: “Why?”

Hinkle: “I thought he would appreciate them. I knew that it was a very hard decision for him to give Happy up.”

Asbell: “And when you sent these pictures back to him, did you tell him that 'I killed the dog in Norfolk '?”

Hinkle: “No.”

Asbell: “Why not?”

Hinkle: “I didn’t think it was necessary.”

Asbell: “Why?”

Hinkle: “I don’t know.”

Asbell: “When he gave you this dog, and entrusted you to take it and adopt it, out, why did you not tell him that you killed it?”

Hinkle: “No reason. I didn’t want to hurt Barry’s feelings.”

Asbell: “If you didn’t want to hurt his feelings, why didn’t you leave the dog with him?”

Hinkle: “I don’t know.”

Court docs. Exact quotes.
People for the ETHICAL Treatment of Animals?
And yet people will continue to support them, or just defend them stating that “yeah, sometimes they make extreme statements but they get things done!” And “they’re not out to take away everyone’s pets!”

Sure, believe that. Keep reading all of your information on online media. And their own sites. Or their HEAVILY edited press releases.

Much easier and faster and cheaper to get info that way. And it’s understandable.
But also please consider that when they tell you exactly who they are and what they do and what they want in DIRECT quotes, believe them too.
For those of us who really follow things like this…as in attend trials, pay for transcripts, attend speeches they make, lobby alongside them, speak with their officers personally…they scare the poop out of us. And they scare the poop out of a LOT of people that used to be staunch supporters and then met them personally.

Ah. A nice thread to go with my wine. How about this take from former PETA members:

http://www.nokillnow.com/PETAIngridNewkirkResign.htm

[QUOTE=D_BaldStockings;7261349]
Exonerated is a word used for convicted persons who are later found innocent; never having committed the crime they were found guilty of.

This is a different term than ‘not guilty’ verdict rendered because their admitted actions, though heinous and loathsome, were not criminal in the jurisdiction where they committed those acts.

To mislead people and imply one thing when you plan to do another may not be illegal, but it is immoral deception, none the less.[/QUOTE]

Are you a lawyer? I am, and I am unaware of any jurisdiction in the United States of America that finds anyone INNOCENT ever. When a defendant is exonerated, it simply means that the government did not meet its burden of proving all of the elements of the crime beyond a reasonable doubt. Because defendants are presumed innocent–they are entitled to that presumption unless and until they are found guilty. But it is a presumption; it is not something that is ever proved nor does it have to be proved.

[QUOTE=Eclectic Horseman;7261635]
Are you a lawyer? I am, and I am unaware of any jurisdiction in the United States of America that finds anyone INNOCENT ever. When a defendant is exonerated, it simply means that the government did not meet its burden of proving all of the elements of the crime beyond a reasonable doubt. Because defendants are presumed innocent–they are entitled to that presumption unless and until they are found guilty. But it is a presumption; it is not something that is ever proved nor does it have to be proved.[/QUOTE]

well, in this case they were found ‘not guilty’ not for lack of malevolence, but for lack of legal grounds.
They should have been slammed for unlawful disposal of bio-hazard material though…and/or for carrying as big of a ‘first aid kit’ as they had to have to kill that many animals.

So, I see this thread is semi-dead, but this article made it to my facebook feed. Even though I’ve got some REALLY strong opinions against this group & I’m very capable of using VA’s Dept of Ag site, I’ve managed to keep my mouth shut. I know, I’m impressed with me, too. Amazing, since I’ve got one friend who’s just drinking the kool-aid and justifies all their re-home/adopt out to euthanizing as that they “don’t take most adoptable animals to that VA facility.” I know, right?? I had to shut my computer & walk away.

Then he backed it up by posting this later on: http://www.peta.org/about-peta/milestones/ Yeah, his mug for his kool-aid is frosty.

Now, scroll to 2012. I am not a race horse person. Can one of you who are race people explain to me HOW Peta is taking credit for these TB and race “milestones”?

Oh, taking the credit is easy…especially when you don’t have to do the work.

Are they affiliated with that ‘retirement’ organization that expected the farms and ranches to feed their charges on less than 3 bucks a day?

[QUOTE=Alagirl;7268553]
Oh, taking the credit is easy…especially when you don’t have to do the work.

Are they affiliated with that ‘retirement’ organization that expected the farms and ranches to feed their charges on less than 3 bucks a day?[/QUOTE]

No, that was the TRF. Their show case is/was the Maker’s Mark Secretariat Center at the Kentucky Horse Park. They’re not at all affiliated with PETA, but just another rescue gone rogue.

[QUOTE=LauraKY;7268572]
No, that was the TRF. Their show case is/was the Maker’s Mark Secretariat Center at the Kentucky Horse Park. They’re not at all affiliated with PETA, but just another rescue gone rogue.[/QUOTE]

LOL, Maker’s Mark…with the trained mice!
Certainly some of that koolaid around!

[QUOTE=Alagirl;7268633]
LOL, Maker’s Mark…with the trained mice!
Certainly some of that koolaid around![/QUOTE]

That was hysterical, wasn’t it?

[QUOTE=Eclectic Horseman;7261635]
Are you a lawyer? I am, and I am unaware of any jurisdiction in the United States of America that finds anyone INNOCENT ever. When a defendant is exonerated, it simply means that the government did not meet its burden of proving all of the elements of the crime beyond a reasonable doubt. Because defendants are presumed innocent–they are entitled to that presumption unless and until they are found guilty. But it is a presumption; it is not something that is ever proved nor does it have to be proved.[/QUOTE]

I am sure you are correct, the words I used were ‘who are later found innocent having never committed the crime they were found guilty of.’

While I probably should have omitted the ‘having never committed’, that is often the case where new evidence is used to confirm a convicted person did not commit the crime OR the evidence is insufficient to prove guilt.

the legal dictionary definition:

http://definitions.uslegal.com/e/exoneration/

Exoneration refers to a court order that discharges a person from liability. In criminal context the term exonerate refers to a state where a person convicted of a crime is later proved to be innocent.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/exonerate

exonerate verb absolve, absolve of a charge, acquit, clear, clear of an imputation of guilt, declare blameless, deelare innocent, declare not guilty, discharge, discharge of responsibility, exculpate, excuse, forgive, free from accusaaion, free from blame, give absolution, grant a reprieve, grant amnesty, liberare, liberate, pardon, pronounce free from guilt, prove blameless, prove not guilty, purge, reeease from an obligation, release from liability, relieve, reeieve from accusation, relieve of blame, relieve of liability, remit a penalty, set free, vindicate

I don’t think I am wrong in believing the poster was using ‘exonerate’ in the ‘they did nothing wrong’ sense, as proven by the not guilty finding. Perhaps the prosecution was on the wrong choice of charges leveled against the defendants in that jurisdiction.

Are you a lobbyist?

[QUOTE=D_BaldStockings;7268745]
I am sure you are correct, the words I used were ‘who are later found innocent having never committed the crime they were found guilty of.’

While I probably should have omitted the ‘having never committed’, that is often the case where new evidence is used to confirm a convicted person did not commit the crime OR the evidence is insufficient to prove guilt.

the legal dictionary definition:

http://definitions.uslegal.com/e/exoneration/

Exoneration refers to a court order that discharges a person from liability. In criminal context the term exonerate refers to a state where a person convicted of a crime is later proved to be innocent.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/exonerate

exonerate verb absolve, absolve of a charge, acquit, clear, clear of an imputation of guilt, declare blameless, deelare innocent, declare not guilty, discharge, discharge of responsibility, exculpate, excuse, forgive, free from accusaaion, free from blame, give absolution, grant a reprieve, grant amnesty, liberare, liberate, pardon, pronounce free from guilt, prove blameless, prove not guilty, purge, reeease from an obligation, release from liability, relieve, reeieve from accusation, relieve of blame, relieve of liability, remit a penalty, set free, vindicate

I don’t think I am wrong in believing the poster was using ‘exonerate’ in the ‘they did nothing wrong’ sense, as proven by the not guilty finding. Perhaps the prosecution was on the wrong choice of charges leveled against the defendants in that jurisdiction.

Are you a lobbyist?[/QUOTE]

I think that you may be referring to cases in which a defendant, who has been convicted, is later exonerated, for example, by DNA evidence? Yes, that happens. (Although the person is still not, in a legal sense, “proven innocent” as there is never a trial with a finder of fact to “find” the person innocent.) But it is my understanding that is not what happened in the PETA case. There was apparently a not guilty verdict. All that means is that the prosecution did not prove its case to the judge or jury.

Why would you think that I was a lobbyist?

Is the Maker’s Mark center still up and running? Every week I drive by there and no horses are outside and it doesn’t seem like anyone is there.

[QUOTE=spotted draft x filly;7269218]
Is the Maker’s Mark center still up and running? Every week I drive by there and no horses are outside and it doesn’t seem like anyone is there.[/QUOTE]

I think they foster them out over the winter. At least I know they did a couple of years ago. I just checked, their website is still up.

[QUOTE=Eclectic Horseman;7269103]
I think that you may be referring to cases in which a defendant, who has been convicted, is later exonerated, for example, by DNA evidence? Yes, that happens. (Although the person is still not, in a legal sense, “proven innocent” as there is never a trial with a finder of fact to “find” the person innocent.) But it is my understanding that is not what happened in the PETA case. There was apparently a not guilty verdict. All that means is that the prosecution did not prove its case to the judge or jury.

Why would you think that I was a lobbyist?[/QUOTE]

I must have gotten ruffled feathers over nothing.
I did not use the word exonerated, a supporter of the ‘euthanizers’ did.
I objected to their use of the word in reference to the not guilty verdict; as implying no crime was committed and no morally bankrupt acts took place.

My reading of the legal dictionaries led me to believe a not guilty trial verdict is a different legal situation than being exonerated. Probably because the exact words in the legal dictionary were ‘later proved to be innocent’.

You have stated you are a lawyer. In my limited experience most lobbyists are lawyers. Are you a lobbyist?

Why would you think I was a lawyer?

No, I am not.
I am able to read and comprehend most English aside from TXTing, nonetheless. Even corrected a few documents drafted by lawyers -during my career- in a business setting.

For some reason I interpreted your question as supporting the use of the word exonerated with it’s positive connotation in preference to ‘not guilty verdict’. Perhaps my usage and definition are antequated and need updating.

Thanks

[QUOTE=D_BaldStockings;7270300]
I must have gotten ruffled feathers over nothing.

Thanks[/QUOTE]

And I think that my response was intended for the person who originally used the word “exonerated” in the context of the PETA trial, claiming that PETA was “found innocent.” My point to her (and to you, I guess) was simply that in the US system of justice, there is never an adjudication of innocence. So in the true legal sense, the word “exonerated” can only mean discharged from prosecution or from guilty verdict–regardless of the common usage.

Obviously, in other systems of justice in other countries they may have trials in order to determine whether someone is innocent. If you were a lawyer from some other system, then we could discuss those differences from that perspective.