PETA panties are wadded *originally re: docked tails on horses, train sidetracked & is now discussing dogs 😎

[2DogsFarm]

This time it’s over the Budweiser Clyde’s docked tails.
While I don’t support the practice of docking, whether it’s horses’ tails, dogs’ ears/tails, neither do I subscribe to PETA’s pearl-clutching rant on the “abuse”.
They claim a docked tail causes permanent pain & susceptibility to insect-borne diseases
I call Major BS on both.
The big Show hitches must be terribly abusive
While some do not dock, those that do - including Drafts used for farming - are for the most part caring owners.
For an example, look at Albert Cleve’s FB page on his lovely Percherons: Blue Ribbon Days

I chose to submit a message on the PETA site that, instead of using their boilerplate “Stop the abuse!” rhetoric, substituted my feelings as outlined above.
I can’t wait to see the email response

All you “abusive” Draft owners, please join me in making PETA Back the Eff off, at least on this subject

[endlessclimb]

Disclaimer: I do not support PETA, for anything. That said…

Abuse is a strong word, which I think colors this conversation poorly. I think that docking is not in the best interest of the horse.

If you don’t think docking is abuse, then deadening/nerving a tail (to make it unswishable) shouldn’t be considered abuse, either. But it is, and it is.

As far as your comparison, it’s not the same as a dog. The purposes of their tails are entirely different.

[2DogsFarm]

My intent was any physical alteration solely for cosmetic reasons is unnecessary.
Agree the procedure is not totally humane, but neither is it abusive.
I’m guessing a dog’s tail is used for balance & ?
Not just - as my long-gone 90# LabX did - clearing the coffee table

[endlessclimb]

@2DogsFarm

I’m guessing a dog’s tail is used for balance & ?

One could argue that. Certainly not like a cat. The reason for docking dogs (they say) is because it avoids field injuries. I’m sure the same argument is made for docking horses. But only one of them has to endure additional torture (flies) due to the procedure.

I feel bad for docked horses.

[millerra]

I thought drafts’ tails were docked to prevent the tails from getting entangled in hitches/equipment - which could result in a very nasty injury or wreck. It was not done initially for a “look” but served a function. I am sure someone who is an expert on drafts can correct me if I’m wrong.

edited to add: dogs tails are also used for communication. I’ve heard some people claim that docking a dogs tail handicaps a dog’s ability to communicate w/ other dogs

[2DogsFarm]

I’ll ask my Draft friends (with docked tails) how they handle biting flies.
FWIW, I no longer use flymasks & horses don’t seem overly bothered by the lack.
I spray & Swipe around eyes & they’re good.

I feel worse about the Scotched shoes fashionable for the Show hitches.
Originally they served a purpose, but now have become Fashion.
& One that distorts the normal growth & use of forefeet.
Now, that PETA can get behind & I’ll drink the Koolaid.

[Foxglove]

Had a draft (Percheron) for 22 years. He was docked. If a person has ever been in a carriage, pulled by 1 TON of horse that catches the line under his tail --making it completely ineffective --then a person might have a better understanding of why drafts are docked. And as for flies --here is a picture of my Percheron who had a 4" dock --we never cut his tail except to trim the bottom when he started stepping on it. The hair grows --docked or not. He could swish flies with the best of them.

and another view of that tail . . .

(Miss that horse --died four years ago).

[Ghazzu]

I am pleased to live in a state that has made docking illegal, although it is not rigorously enforced.
Both the AVMA and the AAEP have gone on record as opposing the practice.

I still think PETA is scum, but even a blind pig occasionally finds a nut.

[2DogsFarm]

Thanks for that info.
I’d seen Show Drafts’ tails being braided & incorrectly assumed they hadn’t been docked.
If a 4" stub can still grow that much Swatter, then if the Deed’s been done, no harm, aside from the initial trauma.

Psssst!
PETA maybe needs to include the Cobtail Hackneys in their crusade.
Poster on here recalled seeing a tackroom full of amputated tails after a vet visit

[RMJacobs]

I am against docking (horses and dogs), but it’s easy for me to say that with horses as I only drove a single pony. My Hackney pony would flip his tail over the line, and I’d flip it right back, since I could easily reach it. My larger pony never flipped his tail over the line.

I guess I don’t understand why owners of drafts don’t just braid the tail prior to hitching, and let their horses have their flyswatters the rest of the time.

I had an Appy cross with a rat tail, and flies tormented him. He could reach some of them with a hind leg, which was disconcerting when I was riding him. No amount of fly spray seemed to get him any real relief from the ones he couldn’t reach.

I think PETA is a major sh!tshow, and my visceral reaction is to be against anything they support. So where does that leave me? I have no idea…

Rebecca

[Feathered_Feet]

Is tying up a draft’s tail not sufficient to keep it out of the way? Like they do with PREs in some disciplines? While it may have grown out of a practical need, perhaps there are better ways in today’s era.

[Mardi1]

@2DogsFarm

I feel worse about the Scotched shoes fashionable for the Show hitches.

What are Scotched shoes ?

[cayuse]

I found out my mini had one strong tail when he got the line under it once. He had that line by golly and it was HIS!!!

[ASB_Stars]

I live near enough to the Amish country in PA that I am out there several times per month purchasing feed, etc… Not only do they dock HORSE tails, they also dock COW tails. I also have a poor English Springer Spaniel whose tail was cut short by them- much shorter than standard. Their reason for the cow tails being that they do not want a nasty cow tail in their face. The cows have to deal with flies the rest of their lives with nothing. It isn’t all of the Amish, but it’s enough of them, and it makes me sick.

What makes me even more ill? What is done to American Saddlebreds for the show ring, and because of the overlap of trainers and the style for the show ring, Morgans are also getting their tails messed with. Hackney ponies? Sure, the long tail ponies and the cobs both get their tails cut and set. I’ve heard that they aren’t cutting off the bottom of the cob tail ponies tails any more, but I do not know. What can happen to a tail that isn’t maintained properly even if it’s cut “correctly” is unbelievably hideous.

The ASB people are trying hard to make this a kinder and gentler practice. They like to call it “releasing the tail”. Bullshit.

For those of you that think that this is for safety, please see the Standardbred people. Amazingly, they seem to be able to drive their horses forever without maiming their horses.

As for how serious I am about this, I actually tried to get a rule passed in USEF to stop “tail alteration” for any breed or discipline governed by them. I was able to get the rule change submitted several years in a row. Then, they passed a rule saying that you either needed to be a life member, or you need to compete five years in a row in order to submit a rule change. WOW! That makes so much sense. I was flattered that they determined that they needed to pass a whole rule change just to slow me down. However, when it comes to the welfare of the animals, they get a big thumbs down from me. Politics rule over the care of the animals

[sascha]

@ASB_Stars

Their reason for the cow tails being that they do not want a nasty cow tail in their face.

The official reason is that dirty tails make dirty udders which is a food cleanliness issue. Blah blah blah, BS.

In Canada it is no longer acceptable to dock cow tails. If you have one that had some sort of injury and HAD to be docked because the tail couldn’t be saved, you have to keep a record of it with a vet’s sign off that it was unavoidable.

[Sandysmom]

Years ago my dad had a registered Belgian with a docked tail. We live in southwest Arkansas where mosquitoes, horse flies and deer flies come in swarms. Poor old Ben was miserable all summer. We never cut his tail but it never grew enough hair to be an effective fly swatter. Docked tails on dogs don’t bother me. It’s done when pups are about 3 days old before their nervous system really develops. I think breeds that are normally cropped and docked look weird when they’re not. An uncrowded, undocked Doberman looks like a poorly bred black and tan coonhound.

[ASB_Stars]

@sascha

The official reason is that dirty tails make dirty udders which is a food cleanliness issue. Blah blah blah, BS.

Actually, my former Vet told me that he was thrilled about it because it made his job easier. He’s my former Vet.

[ASB_Stars]

@Sandysmom

Docked tails on dogs don’t bother me. It’s done when pups are about 3 days old before their nervous system really develops.

He has a nub. The ESS that I got from a breeder years ago had an appropriate length docked tail. This isn’t that.

[2DogsFarm]

This

Intended to enhance motion upfront.
Originally a less flared version was used to assist horse pulling farm equipment in deep/plowed soil.
Now it’s the Rollkur of the Show Hitch.

[KBC]

I was raised on Black Beauty, influenced my thoughts on bearing reins and docking.

Docking was also banned in the UK in 1949, 8 years before I was born, so I do remember a couple of elderly cobs with a docked tail, but that’s all.

There are many people who drive, show and work horses on the UK, I guess it works well enough for them!