I transitioned to H/J land from being a pro ammy in eventing about 2 years ago. Since my transition, I have almost noticed two different styles of hacking horses, and I am wondering what the different perspectives are about why some lean one way or another. Particularly for the hunters, I have seen and heard folks say, “oh don’t even try and put his head down, or don’t even try and bend him”, and I see others that flat their horses more like I am used to, coming from an eventing background based in a lot of dressage. Or I just see a lot of horses in draw reins.
The trainer that I work with focuses more of softness to the aids, although that doesn’t necessarily mean they have to be round. More so, that they should give to whatever pressure you are giving without too much effort, and generally softness and moderate roundness comes as a result of that - which makse a lot of sense to me. I guess I am curious to know what some of the different philosophies are that people use, as I see kind almost this dichotomy of no contact to some contact. Am I crazy? Thoughts?
I hack quite a few different horses on a regular basis for my barn, and honestly it depends on the horse, for me. I don’t think either one is “right” or “wrong” per se - moreso, the approach varies based on how said person wants to utilize the time with the horse. If it’s an old school horse who literally needs a tune up and to whirl around for 10 minutes, I might let him just trot around on a loose rein with soft aids and get a stretchy soft trot and canter to give him a ride that’s a break from up-down kids who post hard and are constantly pulling. Or, sometimes I hack the clients nice show horses, who need more of a workout…lateral schooling, use their backs, engage hind end/frame, what have you. I like having both “tools” in my proverbial box to give the horse I’m on the ride he needs. Totally depends on the horse and program, IMO.
In my world, hacking and flatting mean 2 totally different types of work. I hack my mare on a loose rein at the walk/trot/canter (if she’ll let me), as long as she’s supple and bending and relaxing her topline. Flatwork means I’m really asking her to come through from behind and doing more things like lateral work. There’s a time and place for both types.
I have to say, I saw a crazy amount of gear on the heads of horses in the warmup ring at the big hunter jumper show last summer. I counted 3 sets of reins or equivalent on one pony being ridden by a trainer.
It made me shake my head because my coach ( and even little old ammie me) get far more sophisticated flatwork out of dressage horses with just a snaffle.
Every discipline has coaches that subscribe to short cuts. If you had switched to dressage you might be asking why folks see-saw their horse’s mouths and why their legs are so busy
Eventing is very functional riding because the horse and rider have to do everything.
Stick with what you know is correct and just don’t look at what hurts your eyes.
Scribbler, I have known of more “dressage shortcuts” espoused by some event instructors, but not three reins.
As a refugee from eventing to dressage, I agree that hacking is just that, relaxation. Flat work on the other hand is a planned activity, involving a warm-up stretch down period that progresses to new work, or reinforcement of known exercises. Followed by a cool down period.
Other than a whip and spurs, extraneous equipment is seldom if ever used. The usual bridle is just a plin old snaffle of whatever type the horse prefers. I gave up on flash and drops unless really. really necessary.
No, I’ve never seen 3 reins on a dressage horse either! And I subscribe to minimal equipment in dressage.
Was just trying to make the point to OP that there are bad shortcuts everywhere, and there may be no real philosophy behind riding a pony with a running martingale on the curb rein which I swear I saw
Agreeing with this, noting that “my world” is a very casual and thus far non-competitive one. I think of hacking as, basically, trail riding, although it may have a more physically active or even a conditioning aspect than a plod-along pleasure ride. I usually don’t think of “hacking” as taking place in an arena. Gives the horse (and rider) a psychological break from paying the utmost attention to all aids at all times, and a change in the type of physical exertion and stresses. I think of “flatting” as, basically, dressage, to engage the horse’s full attention to all aids and details of how they are using their body. In the case of a H/J, ultimate goal being to have a horse that is calmly and immediately responsive to aids so that the rider can optimize the horse’s ability to make good jumping efforts on the course.
I had a brief stint showing my dog obedience. “Hacking” rough correlation in that setting would be taking a reasonably trained dog out to a park or beach or something either off-leash (for the very reliable) or on a long leash, so that they can run about and sniff and enjoy the world, but are still expected to remain in a reasonable orbit about the handler, return when called, etc. “Flatting” would be working the dog at heel, with appropriate corrections for any real drifts of attention off the handler, sharpening of expectations on, say, the automatic sit, etc.
Interestingly, the word “hacking” is used in falconry to allow/train birds to become (or resume being) independent hunters, and is most commonly done with birds intended to be released or returned to the wild, as an intermediate step between obedience/dependence and complete freedom and self-sufficiency.
I agree that there are two different words here: flatting and hacking. In my experience in a few programs in different barns over the last 25 years, flatting means actively training or working my hunters or jumpers with roundness, contact and engagement to develop fitness and adjustability. Hacking means lightly exercising, often on a looser rein, stretching legs and topline with bigger circles, long and low, relaxed riding.
I will not jump on the "OMG! The (insert adjective) hunter/jumper world is so (insert negative adjective here) but the dressage/eventers soooo much (insert positive adjective here) bandwagon. I’ve been in all four of those worlds, and there’s gadgety, crappy, abusive, awful, wonderful, sensitive riding in all of them.
I totally agree that the words can have two different meanings - but to some they don’t - that is why I included both in the title line. I am mostly looking to understand other’s perspectives and have a philosophy discussion on how we train our horses and how that may differ from a traditional dressage or event horse, et cetera - not necessarily jump on any band wagons - just coming from a different discipline looking to understand :yes: .
You are not crazy. There are many different philosophies in Hunter/Jumper land.
I first would ask you - what are your goals with your horse? Hunters, Jumpers or Equitation?
From the trainers I have ridden with, depending on your division of choice can be how you ride your horse under saddle. I choose trainers that have an old school vibe with tradition on basics. Never support “getting your horses head down”… the poll is the highest part of the horse. ~ quote George Morris. I know many don’t like him but his basic principals are still very relevant and work. He even says draw reins are gimmicks and should not be used.
For me a “pet peeve” is the head down thing. I want my horses to be balanced, nose never behind the vertical, and they must accept the bit and take a feel of the contact. And you cannot achieve that without the horse being in front of your leg. Good basic Dressage - engaging the hind into a light front from leg to a soft, feeling hand.
Riding with a Jumper/Eq trainer for a while and she has us do much more Dressage type flat work. Very George Morris - Leg to hand… outside rein, inside leg. Really get the horse soft, connected and responsive. Shoulder in, haunches in, turn on the haunches, turn on the forehand… counter canter… all focusing on leg to hand and balance. I find with this type of a good long flat session my jumping is much better.
Riding a horse that is more of a hunter type, we do similar schooling but more forward, soft canter work. Still finding your distance is about balance and the correct canter. Riding with a softer feel of the mouth but still using leg to hand connection. Some horses have better conformation for this type of riding and reason top hunters are few and far between. They go balanced so invisibly it doesn’t take much to get the correct balance with a soft hand but still connected.
No matter what you choose to do with your horse, they cannot get the hind end strong enough to jump well without proper flat work that engages the hind end.
As far as what a hack means to me is just a light riding day where you get the horse out and moving but not asking for engagement etc. Letting them stretch and going out for a hack on the trail.
I have been working with my trainer on some exercises for the beginning warm up to ride without contact. Like a western rider. It makes you as a rider more balanced and use more leg than hand. I have been enjoying this start up the last few days.
You really need to find a trainer you mesh with and feel you can ride an entire lesson without saying a word to them about anything other than yes… and do what they say. It’s okay to ask questions but if you are feeling things are just wrong… then it may be time to search. Sounds like you are in a good situation.
Have certainly seen and ridden both “types” of H/J horses: some that are beautifully schooled and could walk into a low level dressage test tomorrow with no worries, and others that have very little education on the flat at all (but may be showing over fences at a decent level).
The difference in philosophies seems most noticeable for hunters: some trainers appear to expect a very well-schooled horse on the flat, which will accept a contact, perform basic lateral movements etc., and they expect their riders to be able to do this too. In contrast, some only WTC their hunters in large circles on a loose rein, and that is all that the horses know, or will tolerate. I will admit to preferring the first kind, but if your horses are happy, sound, and performing well at shows, I’m not going to say you’re wrong!
I will say though, I come from a country where countless ills are inflicted on poor horses in the name of “flatwork” or “dressage”, and there’s a very strong regard for just “getting his head down”, usually by grabbing on the poor animals mouth in some fashion. If that’s your idea of flatting, then I think that puttering around on a loose rein is a much better idea! At least youre not doing any harm that way…
FWIW, my hunters are flat schooled far more than jump schooled or “hacked”.
They are expected to go leg to hand, engaged hind end at all times. Lateral work in every session. Lengthen and shorten every pace. Oh, and in Sprenger KK Ultra Loose Ring Snaffle.
Sunday is hack day, by which we actually HACK. Down the road, up the hill, around the corn fields. That is on the buckle, they get to snack, gawk at stuff, sniff things. 20 minutes or two hours, their choice. Fab mental break for all involved.
I have several horses and work with two different trainers simultaneously. One uses draw reins,the other would never think of it,and I mostly trail ride. All my horses go out on trail.one horse is ridden by both trainers, another only ridden by one. Others just by me. I currently live in CA and by 'trail ride" I mean up & down the mountains. Depends on the horse, trainer & rider. I default to - what does the horse like/need and adjust accordingly.
While I am a h/j rider, we have a renowned GP dressage trainer who boards three horses at our farm (weird, I know). He helps me with my gelding sometimes and I love his approach. We warm up by stretching down and going forward on a loose rein. The point is to get supple with impulsion. This lasts for about 10 minutes, or however long the horse needs to really feel warmed up. Then I pick up a contact, really ride leg to hand, and make him carry himself. It’s not about a “headset” at all – it’s about self carriage, straightness, responsiveness to aids, suppleness, etc. If you focus on all those things, then the frame just happens. I always flat this way, unless I’m just going out on a trail ride. Then I loop the rein.
This is my philosophy as well. Hunters should do lateral work, be soft in the bridle both directions, counter canter, shoulders in, haunches in, etc and these things shoud be practiced regularly to maintain the suppleness and athleticism of the horse. Hacking out should also happen regularly to maintain the mental health of horse and rider.
Sometimes the truly automatic ones, normally ponies or 2’6"/3’ horses for the less talented or casual junior/ammy, have shockingly little flat work. They know how to stay on a 12’ stride, in a hunter frame, go in straight lines, and get lead changes. If they don’t know have any other buttons there’s less of a chance of a bad rider accidentally hitting the wrong one. It also helps a green rider learn the correct feeling. Not universally true of course but sometimes they’re just so good at that job you don’t want to mess it up!
Agree with this, as well as the post @2bayboys quoted above. All of my horses, regardless of the ring, are well schooled on the flat. They also regularly trail ride, hack and flat in an open field, can ride down the roadside, as well as road hack, beach ride etc. They stay sound, show regularly, and are rarely phased by horse show chaos. My seasoned beasties rarely jump at home- a little tune up here or there, but they do regular cavaletti work both in the ring and in the field, incorporating hill work as well.
