I am curious if others would feel uncomfortable boarding at barns, or riding with trainers, that ban phones/cameras and/or use of social media related to the trainer/barn. I personally would not board nor work with someone who feels that banning these things is appropriate.
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This was addressed in a thread a few months ago. I think thereās a difference between banning phones so people (usually juniors) arenāt on their phones when they are supposed to be riding/doing chores, or banning social media so people arenāt posting photos without permission and banning anyone taking photos/videos of training sessions. Iām sure youāre talking about the latter. I do think keeping phones in pockets when riding is important (youāre supposed to be riding not scrolling IG), but I wouldnāt be comfortable at a barn that banned photos or videos of training sessions. In fact, I always take videos of lessons and share them with my students - I think itās an excellent training tool.
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There was a similar thread here a few months ago in reference to a HJ trainer incident.
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Correct my comment isnt related to JRs.
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That is exactly the discussion I was hoping for - thank you for posting it here. I only searched the Dressage forum not an overall COTH search prior to starting a new thread.
My takeaway is that phones are going nowhere and a social media posting guideline is appropriate.
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I would not either. I have two young horses, a 4 year old and a six year old. Both experienced abuse in the colt starting, despite extensive research efforts and advance tours/watching of training. Iāve been riding them since, and I would love to place them in training over the winter, (1) since I donāt have an indoor arena, and; (2) because my job is so demanding and these two need new experiences. I canāt do it because I donāt trust ANYONE now. I mean if our most esteemed rider does itā¦so if someone wanted me to sign an NDA, leave my phone or video camera in the careā¦nope nada never buh bye.
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I donāt think Iād hire a pro who I thought I could control via the threat of creating a video tape. And, kind of different but the same, I wonāt farm sit for people who have cameras. I know itās old school. I know why folks want to do that. But hereās the thing: I will give anyone a chance to check me out any way they want before we get into a business relationship. If they want too much invasiveness during the interview process, I can know that thatās not the gig for me.
But there have been times when I have done things for farm owners that they couldnāt do themselves (some bits of horse care or getting a horse unstuck from something) or wouldnāt go out of their way to do for me, had things been reversed. So I know that I donāt deserve to treated like some kind of a cheater. If, after the hiring me, they still feel that way, they should hire a cheater.
I donāt think itās a good idea to hire someone to do a job I canāt do (ride or train better than I can) and then decide that I need some kind of leverage in order to get them to do the job I canāt/wonāt do the way I want. I mean, thatās what the money and the interview is for, right?
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Interesting perspective. Do you find that most folks have cameras?
Where I live, Aiken, cameras are becoming more common on the hobby farms. I think they are for the folks who want to keep an eye on their horses all the time, not to keep an eye on the farm sitter, per se.
But look at all the times here on COTH that posters suggest someone who has a problem with their boarding barn (or boarders) putting up cameras!
As I see it, the problem is that people are finding a way to stay in relationships with people they donāt fundamentally trust. Why do that? And I canāt imagine how someone who stays-but-doesnāt-trust is going to do a good job of bringing out the video evidence to use as some kind of (polite) leverage in order to create change. Can you imagine how that conversation is going to go such that it ends well?
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I actually welcome cameras, within reason. Example, I have a ring type doorbell camera, and one on an outbuilding that records up to 60 seconds of motion it picks up coming up or going down the driveway. Thatās it. This means when we travel, I am comforted at a glance that the farm sitter stopped off (when I get the notification) or my house cleaner made it on the day she planned to come. No one has to text me or the like unless they have a question or just want to send a cute kitty picture. Iām very clear that these things are in place, and they in turn trust that I havenāt stashed one in the bathroom, for example. Iāve picked farm sitters and house cleaners I trust and care about. Itās not about spying, at least not for me.
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At my current barn, my horseās neighbor has a camera in his stall. The owner of that horse got the camera approved by the barn owner before she installed it. Recently that horse was injured and it was determined the injury was caused by a barn worker by reviewing the footage. The conversation with the barn owner went well as the camera was previously approved.
I have mixed opinions about cameras. I feel if I need a camera to monitor my horse, I have my horse in the wrong place. However, there are limited places to board in my area these days. As of today, the neighborās camera is pointed to capture the majority of horseās stall as well. Passive aggressive perhaps.
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I agree with your reasoning here, and when I have house sitters, I inform them of the cameras in the house and ask them to unplug them when they arrive and plug them back in when they leave.
However, the cameras pointing at the horses are on all the time (all 5 of them on 6.5 acres). I have prevented problems, identified a cast horse, and changed turnout arrangements because I could see how am injury happened. I understand why (and agree with you) you donāt want cameras on you, but when no one is home or itās the middle of the night or eyes arenāt on the horses, the cameras are a requirement.
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We need to accept that whenever we leave the confines of our houses with drawn curtains and closed blinds there is a likelihood of being recorded. Parking lot cameras, store cameras, traffic cameras, dash cameras. doorbell cameras, game cameras along trails, bank cameras, rest stop cameras, drone cameras, workplace cameras, airport cameras, the list goes on.
The latest credible information I saw indicated that today an average person might be on camera 70 times every day.
At a former barn the trainer built a round pen with solid, stockade-like walls and gate that were 10 feet high where he worked horses. He said it was to shield the horses from distractions. I had doubts about that. But there was no way anyone could observe him in there, and he always worked alone.
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So, I have exterior cameras that cover my exterior. Nothing inside the house but all the doors and ground floor windows are covered. While it might not work for some people, I have a philosophy that unless you are doing something wrong, what is the big d*mn deal about cameras? We spend our lives getting pretty much every single moment of our lives recorded between store cameras, traffic light cameras, and frankly the GpS in your car and phone. If you use any sort of audio prompt system in your house, everything you are saying is being recorded somewhere.
Weāve had major issues with my BIL. He and my SO (his brother) have never really gotten along and it is an absolute nightmare since their dad died. Mom still lives in the house and was completely on board with exterior cameras. BIL lost his mind over being ārecordedā and bullied her out of keeping them up. Itās not the only issue with him, but itās the one that matters for this discussion. I have pointed out to her several times that if he is not doing anything wrong, then he should have zero issues being recorded. Plus he carries the most current cell phone. That thing records everything he says and everywhere he goes, so if he must be doing something at her house that he should not be if heās that worried about it.
I have had issues at boarding barns with things not getting done. First place I was paying for rides when my schedule was too crazy to get to the barn for several days. The only way I was able to catch them not riding him was to put his bridle away completely stupid, knowing they would be the next ones to ride him. It was exactly the same over a week later. So either they did not exercise him (stealing my payments) or were not using his bridle (not acceptable - biosecurity for one, and I worked hard to find the bit he liked, so not using it not an option).
Second place I had an issue - trainer/owner hired what was supposed to be full time help, including morning feeds. They were getting fed at completely unpredictable times and were not getting their supplements. The trainer asked me one day to delay my next Smartpak delivery as I was quite far ahead. I told her that should not be possible as Smartpak ships every 28 days on the dot, so if it were the case, he was not getting them on the regular. She argued a bit, I pulled up my Smartpak account and showed it to her. She was out of arguments at that point. Other issues with that worker (and another problematic boarder) got her to put up cameras - though without notice to the boarders. I just happened to look up at exactly the right angle to see the red light one day, then noticed the rest of the cameras. Not a problem for me as I was not doing anything wrong.
Long stories short - a barn not allowing video of my personal lessons would be a hard pass for me. And I did hang a camera with permission over my horseās stall when he was on stall rest for 6 weeks so I could check on him from time to time during the day.
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I may be a dinosaur, but I always ask permission to take a picture or a video of someone else or their child or their animal, at the barn or anywhere else. So I believe it is reasonable for people to feel free to video or have video taken of their own ride/lesson/horse in stall or pasture but not of others without permission.
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For me, the issue of cameras goes beyond monitoring my horses or my property. I am fine with that, and I think most of us are (for the most part) ok with it from a safety perspective. The line in the sand for me is posting video to a social media account without permission of the persons involved, or owners of the animals involved. I believe this to be a gross violation of their rights. If I am videoing a ride by a trainer, or myself riding with a given trainer, or myself just riding alone, I would not post that video to social media without the explicit permission of the trainer/rider/whoever. That said, I would not continue to video the ride or training session if I thought it was abusive, especially on my own horse. Were I riding in an abusive situation, I would excuse myself from the lesson (I have actually done so in the past). The bottom line is asking permission to video and a separate permission to post videos to social media.
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I would be very displeased if I found a video of me riding posted online without my permission. Likewise, I would not post videos of other people riding. Social media complicates so many things.
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Same! I actually had this happen at the barn I left last year. Some girls there would post on tiktok and I accidentally came across multiple videos where you can see me through the whole video. I was pretty annoyed at that. If you want to post your own ride thatās fine but if you can see other people riding through the whole video at least ask them before you post. This barn had absolutely torn apart my confidence so having this low point in my riding being documented without my permission really bothered me.
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I am so sorry to read this. Did you talk with them about the clips?
I didnāt. I found it after I gave my notice and at that point I had concerns about my horse not receiving proper care and my own safety if I brought it up. There was an incident where the barn manager had confronted me very aggressively when I expressed concern about my horse after she admitted to not feeding my horse hay for one of her feedings that I was paying for. I didnāt even ask for a refund - just that they feed my horse what I am paying for. It still blows my mind that she would be the angry one in that situation. It would have done nothing except make the last of my time there even more unbearable.
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