Physical issues for loss of right lead?

[Torre]

Hi guys, any/all experiences with this would be helpful. Vet is at a loss.

Looking for a physical reason for a horse being unwilling to pick up a right lead.

Horse in question HAD both leads perfectly. Zero set up required, on the buckle, no bridle, whatever. Would pick up the lead corresponding to direction of travel 100% of the time under saddle and on lunge.

In October 2019 the right lead started to become more and more difficult to get- more and more trot steps needed before she complied with the transition into right canter.

In November the lead was only there about 20% of the time when asked for.

December through today (March), it is at 0%, I can’t even force it. She just promptly picks up a left lead and counter canters no matter what. No trick in the book works. No matter what I do (haunches in, lifting inside rein, leg yield out of a small circle, approach the wall at 45 degrees, ask in corner, ask on circle with correct bend, leg yield into the wall then ask, etc.) On a lunge line, the lead is there about 30% of the time.

Weirdest thing is I can’t feel ANY lameness and the vet can’t see any lameness. Seems to be moving well. Vet just injected hocks, stifles, and SI with no change after each. Has a custom saddle, massage, teeth done, chiropractor out. Nothing changed it.

Any ideas? I’m at a loss and so frustrated

Horse does have KS, but zero back soreness has ever been associated
Horse also has a decent amount of filling in both hind ankles- always been like that

[kookicat]

Saddle fit? Can she canter on both leads at liberty? Can she get it for another rider? You could be blocking her without realising it?

[Torre]

@kookicat

Saddle fit? Can she canter on both leads at liberty? Can she get it for another rider? You could be blocking her without realising it?

All these have been addressed in my post.

[kookicat]

You don’t say anything about if she can get it loose, or for another rider.

And custom saddles don’t stay custom forever.

[Torre]

@kookicat

You don’t say anything about if she can get it loose, or for another rider.

And custom saddles don’t stay custom forever.

Haven’t tried loose, but I’m assuming it would be the same as a LL (30%). My LL is 60 FT long so she has plenty of room, she can go in a straight line (as if loose) with this length.
My saddle was reflocked 4 months ago. I’ve checked the bottom for uneven flocking and evaluated it on her back.

[Scribbler]

If she can’t get it easily on LL then there is a physical problem. I think you want to look either at the leading front leg or the opposite hind leg. Do you have images of the joints?

[Torre]

@Scribbler

If she can’t get it easily on LL then there is a physical problem. I think you want to look either at the leading front leg or the opposite hind leg. Do you have images of the joints?

Agreed, that’s why I’m digging. Esp. since its been SO easy to get in the past.
Hocks very minor arthritic changes (injected)
Stifles ultrasound and xray clean
Back xrays show KS

Nothing else has been imaged.

[Linny]

I’d have vet take a very close look at the left hind. Issues with leads are often up high, stifle or hip. Have her back looked at closely. Horses with solid leads don’t just “forget” them. In a state of nature, horses use leads for balance and balance is vital in a prey animal. If they are not using one lead, there is a physical reason for it.

[Scribbler]

In my experience green pasture horses with room to move prefer to use the "correct"lead and can usually do a flying change as needed even if they can’t keep a coherent canter together with a rider. It’s natural to have both leads. So if she is “losing” her lead on the longe line there is something pain related brewing.

[Torre]

@Linny

I’d have vet take a very close look at the left hind. Issues with leads are often up high, stifle or hip. Have her back looked at closely. Horses with solid leads don’t just “forget” them. In a state of nature, horses use leads for balance and balance is vital in a prey animal. If they are not using one lead, there is a physical reason for it.

@ Scribbler as well- you both mentioned taking a look at either LH or RF. I agree. The vet I had out was insistent that the painful hind limb at the canter is the one on the inside. So a horse with right lead issues might have right hind issues according to him.

I’ve always thought the problematic limb @ canter would be the one that they strike off on (outside hind). It also bears much more weight since its an isolated leg and not a diagonal pairing like the inside hind.

[Scribbler]

Maybe you need to find a regional lameness specialist since your own vet is missing a basic point?

[Ubu_Goober]

How old is she? Since nothing else seems to be turning up as a source, might be worth ruling out an ovarian tumor as a source of discomfort or back pain. Are her ovaries visible on the spine films? If not, rectal palpation or ultrasound might be helpful.

I did have a gelding lose a lead for a time when he developed a splint on a hind leg, but as I recall the time frame of progression was much shorter. He was not detectably lame, but I think he might have been reactive if you pressed the sore spot hard. Don’t remember for sure though, it was a very long time ago. Cantered fine with a local block at the sore spot.

[horsegurl]

@Ubu&Goober has a great suggestion-ovaries. Also I TOTALLY agree with you, I’d suspect the outsode hind leg. I think you may need another vet’s opinion!

[CBoylen]

It’s the KS. Had one that I could not get a particular lead on, vet flexed everything with no issues. Back palpated fine. Radiographs discovered KS. Even if your horse handled it fine in the past something may have changed that you need to address. But I’d start there before looking elsewhere.

[Torre]

@Ubu&Goober

How old is she? Since nothing else seems to be turning up as a source, might be worth ruling out an ovarian tumor as a source of discomfort or back pain. Are her ovaries visible on the spine films? If not, rectal palpation or ultrasound might be helpful.

I did have a gelding lose a lead for a time when he developed a splint on a hind leg, but as I recall the time frame of progression was much shorter. He was not detectably lame, but I think he might have been reactive if you pressed the sore spot hard. Don’t remember for sure though, it was a very long time ago. Cantered fine with a local block at the sore spot.

Great suggestion, thank you! Hadn’t considered this. I want as many ideas to bring to a [new] vet as possible.
May be a coincidence, but she got PEMF done a month ago, and got VERY angry when the machine was placed over her ovaries.

[Torre]

@CBoylen

It’s the KS. Had one that I could not get a particular lead on, vet flexed everything with no issues. Back palpated fine. Radiographs discovered KS. Even if your horse handled it fine in the past something may have changed that you need to address. But I’d start there before looking elsewhere.

How did the vet deduct it was the KS? Did you inject?
Mine acts just like this, zero soreness over the area, and so vet says its fine?

[findeight]

You need to consult a specialist. Not that impressed with vet insisting all lead problems originating behind are in the inside leg. That leg shares the load with the outside hitting the ground in unison,. Outside hind works alone and powers horse all by itself. Problems picking up a lead or with a change tend to trace to where that stride starts, that’s outside leg. Not always but refusing to consider that suggests you need a vet more experienced with Sporthorses.and with the most recent diagnostic equipment and capabilities.

Without seeing the horse, it could be hind suspensory which often does not create a limp and doesn’t involve a joint that would show positive in flexions. Have you had ultrasounds of all 4 legs done? Have you blocked bottom up all around? Bilateral and compensatory issues often hide the real source and don’t manifest as visible lameness or flex positive if a joint is not involved, just soft tissue.

CBoylen is far more experienced with such things and likely right here and know she has always used top vets with good equipment… Either way, you need a clinic lameness work up with a Sporthorse specialist,

[Linny]

With the added info I’d concur about the KS. If the horse can do the lead loose or on the lunge, it tells me that the saddle or riders weight is causing interference with her ability to get it.
I’ve always been taught (and seen evidence of) the outside leg theory. That’s the leg that works solo to lift into the canter. I’d find a lameness specialist and a neuro specialist and see if they can’t find a course of action for you.

[MzCarol]

I didnt read the whole thread but my mare is also excellent with her leads. Whenever there is even a slight issue with the correct lead it is always that her hip is out. Chiro fixes it eveey time.

[beowulf]

Do you have a video…? I would bet the horse is not sound.

From what you posted was ruled out, I’d say hind suspensory. It often makes a horse bilaterally lame, which makes the lameness harder to see because both limbs are equally short-strided.

There’s a correlation between horses with KS, and horses with PSD (proximal suspensory desmitis) – why, I do not know. Horses with KS also tend to have hock issues and SI problems, likely from compensation. My guess is the PSD is the result of long-time defensive or compensational movement. Maybe even precipitated by really bad hoof trim/angles all around.

Don’t discredit the virtue of “looking under rocks you’ve already ruled out”. Sometimes, even things looking or appearing perfect on paper (such as saddle fit) are anything but. I chased an issue for years with an old horse and never thought to question what was already ruled out… but after thousands of dollars in vet bills found out the saddle that objectively fit him on paper (and was vetted by multiple independent fitters) was the root of all our issues.

Thing is, people are human too, and so often especially with things like saddle fit, reading x-rays/ultrasounds, and even evaluating soundness, it is subjective… Best to get the most eminent eyes on the horse you can afford, whether that is hauling to a local clinic or big vet school, where they see these cases every day and have a much deeper tool-kit in terms of experience…