Picking a supplement, along with a complete diet

[house]

I am thinking of switching to a different “mineral”, currently I am feeding 10 clydesdale horses, I am looking for value, but at the same time I would like the best performance available. I have a diet that I built in feedxl that works pretty well for me.

All my horses are in dry lots and have bermuda or teff hay infront of them all day, then on top of that their typical diet is 4 oz of TC golden flax, 1lb Kruse EA Elite horse, 2lbs Kruse EA Balancer, 4oz of redcell, 3lbs of whole oats, and 4 oz of MVP Mega Mag. as well a bit of alfa hay.

I am pretty happy with them, but a month ago I was unable to get the Mega Mag for about a month, partially due to poor planning and the partially due to shipping issues. I was amazed to see that their performance deteriorated noticeably, which got me thinking perhaps another supplement may be better/cheaper/cooler. I am at a spot place in the year where I have some time to experiment as we just finished the stock show, and our next show is not until August.

I have been reading many topics on here, as well as talking to several mineral company reps, all of who unsurprisingly tell you their product is the best, but what I find really odd is that not one of the reps I spoke with asked anything about what I am currently feeding, I find that really odd from a pragmatic horse health standpoint.

I am debating trying a couple of different supplements for a month at a time, on my list is platinum performance, Ultra Cruz, California Trace, and perhaps smartpak essentials.

I know there is a lot of experience here so I am curious to hear general thoughts on my horses diet, as well as any minerals I should try outside my list, or any on my list to avoid.

[candyappy]

With already feeding a ration balancer and redcell I would be afraid you would over supplement on some things.

What makes you think they are lacking?

[house]

I just saw the horses energy level decrease when I took away the Mega Mag for a three weeks with no other real change, which lead me to believe that it was making a difference, now I am wondering if I can find something that will do even more, my diet from what I can tell is not lacking much.

[LilDunFilly]

Is that chart showing their diet with or without the Mega Mag? Assuming that the 100% is what the horse needs and anything over that are excess, it looks like more supplements are going to just give them some expensive pee. Horses (and people and dogs) are only going to absorb so many nutrients no matter how much you supplement them.

Looking at the diet individually
-Flax: I assume for hair/hoof growth and Omega-3’s.
-Ration Balancer: This should provide all the minerals they need outside of forage unless your area/horses are specifically deficient in something. These are balanced to be fed without a lot of additional supplementation.
-Elite Horse: You’re not feeding enough of this per horse for its vitamin/mineral balance to do anything. (Feed guidelines say feed 1 lb feed per 100 lb bodyweight for medium work).
-Redcell: Vitamin/Mineral supplement (best for animals with low iron).
-Oats: I assume this is just for bulk or energy
-Mega Mag: Another vitamin/mineral supplement, for animals mostly on Alfalfa/grain diets.
-Alfalfa: Calories and protein

Overall, unless you are specifically trying to target an issue I think there are too many conflicting vitamin/mineral balances in there. I can’t recommend another V/M supplement over another since I can’t figure out what you’re targetting. Maybe try Mega-Cell over the Mega-Mag? That one is designed for a primarily grass-based diet.

[JB]

I would drop the Red Cell for sure. There’s no reason to purposefully add that amount of iron. A lot of the benefits it provides - when it actually does help - is due to the B vitamins, which horses really don’t need in their diet (they make their own), but can be useful if their digestive system isn’t up to speed.

I don’t see anything of significance in the Mega Mag, other than potentially the B vitamins which yes, can support energy (which is the biggest thing Red Cell really offers of value). If you want to see if that’s it, then check out the B complex that Horse Tech has

I would also get their phosphorous level up - it’s a little low outright, not a huge amount, but I’d still want it at least 100%.

[walktrot]

@JB

If you want to see if that’s it, then check out the B complex that Horse Tech has

I’ve been using HorseTech for years. I like having a single source of supplements. I know that the nutritional balance is correct. It is a small family-run business.

[lorilu]

I am certainly no expert at all IRT feeding, so I have two questions - the chart shows only 85% of required digestible energy… and you feel their energy levels have dropped… ?? Maybe this is why?
And I was always told that too much selenium is dangerous, and your chart shows more than 200% … ?

[JB]

@lorilu

the chart shows only 85% of required digestible energy… and you feel their energy levels have dropped… ??

But the only thing she dropped has no calories.

That DE is based on what the average horse needs. If he’s not underweight, or even just a bit lean, then you ignore DE being less than 100%. Some horses will clock in at 120% or something, and if someone complains they are sluggish, but they aren’t fat, you wouldn’t decrease the calories there.

@lorilu

And I was always told that too much selenium is dangerous, and your chart shows more than 200%

While 6mg vs 3mg for the average horse is 200%, it’s also not dangerous territory. Truly dangerous is in the 20mg/day range. I’d be a little queasy about 10mg/day, without testing to prove it’s needed.

It would be good to know if the forage in this analysis is @house’s own tested hay, or if it’s FeedXL’s average for that area.

If there’s any concern about the Se, test the horse’s blood to see where that level is.

[house]

@JB

erous is in the 20mg/day range. I’d be a little queasy about 10mg/day, without testing to prove it’s needed.

It would be good to know if the forage in this analysis is @house’s own tested hay, or if it’s FeedXL’s average for that area.

I use feed xls moderate selenium hay as I have had mine tested in the past and it was basically the same. I am not concerned about Se, Feed XL tells me …

While Ben’s selenium is higher than it needs to be it is still within the safe range. Ben’s upper safe level for selenium is 38.8 mg or 674% of his RDI. The level of selenium in this diet is not a cause for concern and will not harm him in any way. However, reducing the amount of selenium in Ben’s diet might lower your feed costs.

as far as the redcell is concerned, I have a couple of older horses that bloodwork showed up as borderline anemic, so my vet recommend the Red Cell, I add it to everyone just to keep it consistent, and in the grand scheme of things it is not very expensive, and I perceived it to make a difference so I just continue.

In the grand scheme of things the Mega mag mvp does not move the diet hardly at all, that said, I was just surprised when I went without it for 3 weeks that I was able to see a difference. for anyone who has used feed xl it is pretty complicated coming up with a diet that simply has 100% of every value, because you cant simply add 10% Digestible energy with a single feed or supplement, for most categories there is large additions in other areas. I have been really impressed with my horses on this diet, i have been tweaking it for the past 3-4 years, like I said Mega Mag is doing something that I perceive as an improvement, I guess will just try substituting some other magic mystery powder to see if I like another better.

[JB]

@house

I have a couple of older horses that bloodwork showed up as borderline anemic, so my vet recommend the Red Cell

Let me guess - they were in a rested state when the blood was pulled.

horses store quite a lot of RBCs in their spleen, released when they need it - exercise.

Besides, if the horse really does have a bit low RBC, adding iron doesn’t fix that because it’s not an iron problem

Equine Anaemia - It’s NOT About Iron Deficiency | Forageplus Talk

@house

I went without it for 3 weeks that I was able to see a difference.

What was the start date of those 3 weeks? Were therey any changes at all? New batch of hay? More/less turnout or work?

@house

like I said Mega Mag is doing something that I perceive as an improvement, I guess will just try substituting some other magic mystery powder to see if I like another better.

The biggest thing in the MM is, like I said, likely the B vitamins. If there’s something wonky with his digestion - maybe it’s just him - that doesn’t allow him to make enough, that could be the difference.