Picking the Young Hunt Prospect

[Ganymede]

To keep me entertained on a wet day I’d love to hear how people pick out young hunt prospects. I’m thinking horses over 4, backed with basic w-t-c.

What I’m wanting in a hunter: fairly easy going temperament; a bit hotter to jump is fine, but I want the easy ride the rest of the time. Very good with other horses, doesn’t mind being crowded (our hunt is often in tight laneways and it can get pretty squishy). Decent amount of athleticism, good jump technique, scopey and safe jumper.

My last prospect I managed to get all the athleticism and jump scope I could need (which was lucky as she’d never jumped and there was nothing to try her over) but she was pretty sensitive and not that confident in groups of horses. Plus wasn’t super bold over fences (not a problem on the hunt field, just not an eventer type). She was a heck of a lot of fun and I did very well out of her money wise but she wasn’t my ideal hunter. She did hunt the season and she was well admired but I suspect most of that was because she was beautiful with a text book jump. I did buy her knowing I could easily make money on her as a dressage prospect, and she’s now a showring and show hunter horse, doing very well. My previous hunter was a hot schoolmaster type that I bought for SJ but then remembered how much fun hunting was.

So is there a way to pick them? What do you look for? Are there certain things that will make you rule out a horse?

I won’t be looking for another year, but just curious and it’s a very wet day!

[Little_Valkyrie]

I have no way to put this into words, but I find that horses that don’t draw energy from other horses do well out hunting. I have an OTTB that hunted perfectly his first time out and continued to do so through the rest of the season and I chose him because the day I hacked him out (fresh off the track) he wasn’t bothered by walking around a field by himself away from other horses and not panicking when pastured horses started to play a bit. That combined with a decent body, is a perfect mix for me.

[Corky]

I don’t worry so much about jumping, I figure any horse can drag its butt over a few coops each hunt, even if it isn’t all that skilled at it. I look for something that doesn’t react to stimulus, like garbage on the side of the trail, and one that will accept guidance from the rider regarding potentially exciting situations - like what Little V described about riding outside and having turnout horses start playing. I want a horse that doesn’t peace out on me just because he gets distracted. I love a horse that doesn’t melt down because its lost a visual on its friend.

I look for something that is well balanced conformationally, I won’t take a weak hind end. I want something that picks up its feet, daisycutter trot is nice in the ring but not always idea on uneven grasslands. Basically if a horse drives itself well off its hind end, and moves that energy up to push the front end forwards, I assume I can teach it to jump well enough. If I think to myself that a horse is a good mover, I am usually talking about its hind end, not its front. I don’t need amazing conformation, but I don’t want any interference or hitchy-ness and I don’t want anything built downhill.

I like horses that are naturally inquisitive and want to investigate potentially scary things. I find these horses braver in general. I also want something that seems trusting of people, although this can be hard to assess.

If I am buying for a resale, I want some white somewhere or basically anything but a plain bay. We all like to think a good horse has no colour, but a flashy horse is seen by twice as many people flipping through sales ads.

I’m still pretty new at this game so I’m interested to hear what others look for.

[Ganymede]

Thanks for the thoughts so far.

The last one came from a quiet farm up the back of nowhere and none of the other horses ran around, so I couldn’t assess that. I probably didn’t ask enough questions about how she reacted to other horses.

Jumping - my hunt does a lot of jumping, and at least half would be over wire fences. Much of it would be 3’, but if you want to ride up the front and keep up there’s a fair bit of full height fences (3’3-3’6) and hedges (sometimes huge). Some of the properties are dairy farms, so fairly small paddocks. It’s not my preferred hunt country as there is almost too much jumping, but it is what it is.

So to me jumping ability is pretty crucial as they need to jump wire safely.

I keep saying my next horse is going to be a plain bay gelding with no white whatsoever :-). The last was a chestnut mare with 3 high whites and a big blaze - looked gorgeous but such a pain to get clean on hunt mornings in the middle of winter.

[Ponyclubrocks]

If you want to sell it as a hunt horse let me tell you for a lot of us white and grey are NOT desirable, Try cleaning one of those up at 430 AM when its below freezing. Plain Bay is a very attractive color for a hunt horse! Ask me how I know!!!

[Corky]

Jumping wire, wow, I definitely didn’t realize you were from NZ when I first read your response! I read some of Foster’s chronicles of hare hunting there, he was talking about jumping the regular perimeter fences, including high tensile wire. I think I’d need more than one stirrup cup to try that!

How do you tell if a horse is likely to jump wire without just pointing them at it? Do most horses take to it? Do you school wire while out hacking? I don’t doubt you’d want a tidy jumper for that job, around here we seldom see jumps in the field above 3ft although they either used to be bigger, or they were bigger in the memories of the elder-folk If I were jumping 3’6-4ft wire fences I’m not sure I’d favour crossbred horses the same as I do now!

Can you usually get around wire, or is it a jump or be left behind scenario? Sorry this is probably getting a little off topic, but I’m impressed by anyone with the balls of steel for jumping wire on a weekly basis!

[Ganymede]

PCR - I’m with you there - no more white socks! It doesn’t get below freezing here but it gets incredibly muddy.

Corky - I’ve only started one over wire but my heart was in my mouth when we cantered down to that first one :yes: I went to a property with lovely prepared baby fences, warmed up with some SJs, then spars and hedges, then I just cantered down to the wire fence (it did have lots of battens in it to make it quite visible). No problemo! But the mare was a very careful and tidy jumper.

Here’s some good examples of our fences (I don’t know this horse/rider and it’s not my hunt):
http://www.trademe.co.nz/sports/equestrian/horses-ponies/horses/auction-378304380.htm
1st photo looks like alkathene pipe over wire, 2nd is a spar, 3rd is pretty impressive full wire.

We jump all those, plus electric tape, tape gates and the odd wired shut gate (eek! that last was on my schoolmaster).

It depends on the fixture how much jumping you need to do to keep up. Some are very easy to keep up over spars or lowered wire, some you can get left behind at the odd full wire, and some of the midweek are pretty serious. There are always people gating, but it’s not organised into 1st/2nd/hilltoppers - you just do your own thing. Sometimes you have to do some pretty major detours to gate. Generally fairly easy to catch up as the farms aren’t very big and it’s open country (not many trees). Other hunts in NZ are on much bigger farms and you really can get left behind.

I can’t really speak for how many horses don’t take to it. The first hunt I jumped wire with my mare we’d only jumped a handful of fences then there was very fine electric string to jump (about 2’ high). I’d hadn’t even jumped her over the fatter tape and was worried if she’d even see it, but I got a lead and aimed at the pigtail - she knew that something needed to be jumped!

I could have chosen not to jump it but it does break if you tangle it (obviously to be avoided), plus everyone I was with was jumping it - so I would have had to leave a group of 10 or so and head off on my own. I expect all my horses to be able to go off on their own and I know the mare would have, but it was easier just to jump.

Anyway, Otterhound might chime in, she’s had way more experience than I have.

[2ndyrgal]

Oh God what I’d give for a plain bay

The easiest horses I’ve ever worked with came out of a big herd and were either in the middle or the bottom of the pecking order. The ones at the bottom put up with a lot, are tractable and don’t mind being pushed or crowded. Go along with the group.

[Hinderella]

I’m enjoying reading these responses, because I’m still trying to figure out if my pony will ever be a good hunt horse (for me) and I can learn a lot from what more experienced riders seek in a hunt horse.

She’s got plenty of energy, is generally brave to a fence and isn’t lazy with her feet. We need more miles outside of the arena to see about her reactions to different or scary things. Generally, I think she’ll be fine, the problem is more likely to be pilot error. But she’s not a stop & look sort of girl, if something’s scary she’s more likely to scoot off 5-6 strides, then look. She doesn’t care much for other horses in general, and will sometimes pin her ears if a horses passes her very closely, but nothing more than that. My greatest concern is that she’ll be too quick for me, but I guess we’ll find out down the road, when I rider better and when I get a %^* trailer!

At least she’s easy to clean…straight up chestnut, with only a quarter sized bit of white on one foot.

And I am so glad I don’t have to jump wire. I’m sure I’d just have a heart attack & die on the way to the fence.

[FitToBeTied]

A friend told me that one of the things that he looks for in a horse is one with a go button. As he put it, “I’d rather have to hold them then kick them.”

That was an interesting viewpoint. When I was recently looking I knew I did not want to have to kick over a coop. I’d rather hold. So anything that was not naturally forward got bypassed.

The biggest thing for me is a good brain and not one likely to get frazzled.

[SLW]

The brain, the brain, the brain is #1 on my list. Comfort is #2. Down the list would be gender, color and size.

My hunt is set up to accommodate members like me who don’t want to jump over 2.6" by having plenty of gates. But even if I were jumping wire (BTW, those are VERY IMPRESSIVE photos!!!) I need a horse with a good brain that handles the crowd, speed and distractions without bolting, shying or being a general twit. Forward moving is fine, out of control is a deal breaker. To get comfort you need a certain body/leg conformation but if the horse was comfy to ride with a jug head I’d own it.

My current hunt horse is a Connemara mare, 14.3, size 1 hooves that stay barefoot & black/bay with just a star. She looks like a small Friesian and is smooth as silk to ride. My hunt has the most beautiful mixture of horses in the two fields- Draft crosses, the beautiful TB’s and assorted Quarter horse mixes.

[Ganymede]

2ndyrgal: that’s what I was thinking - something that’s used to lots of horses and is very easy going in a group.

FitToBetied - yes, yes, yes! My schoolmaster mare just about dragged me down to the fences and it is just the best feeling. But if I’m looking at prospects that aren’t jumping yet, how do I assess this?

And how do you tell the difference between that really positive feeling and the ones that have no self preservation, leave out strides etc? The schoolmaster was super catty and while verrrry keen always felt extremely safe. But I tried her out on the hunt field so knew what I was buying.

SLW: I agree with the brain - but how do you assess it? What do you look for? My prospect mare learned to cope with so many hunt things: horses galloping by, hounds passing, other horses nutting out. She could certainly get fired up and excitable but other than leaping up a bit we managed to hold it together. She would jump on her own, leave the groups etc. But she really didn’t like being crowded, which is a problem at our fixtures.

Hinderella: what do you mean by too quick for you?

Very interesting discussion, keep it up all

[SLW]

Re: the brain, you don’t know until you take them out roading, cubbing and/or hunting, IMO.

My retired hunting mare, a small Quarter horse mare, got it from the get go BUT she was 12 years old. I bought her from some nice rednecks who did goofy stuff with her and I did CTR’s and LD’s and trail rode the heck out of her before we hunted. An old injury from an accident she was in before I bought her made her very uncomfortable to ride but I was willing to put up with the discomfort because she wasn’t bought to be a hunt horse. to this day she is the most pleasant horse to spend time with.

To replace the above mare, in 2010 I bought a Quarter horse mare who had been ranch trained and ridden and competed in extreme cowboy events. She was 10 years old. Her first exposure to hunting was hound exercises. She exploded. The good news is with a first reaction like that there is plenty of room to improve and hope springs eternal, right?? With everyones support I brought her along very slowly but by last February it was clear she wasn’t a happy hunt horse. I sold her to a rancher friend and she is doing terrific cattle work with him.

Last March I came across the Connemara who had been idle in a pasture for 3 years. She was ridden a couple times during the week then I saw her ridden one day in nasty weather- spitting March snow and gusty north winds. There she was working her heart out in the arena all by herself. The next day I rode her in the indoor arena- same bad weather- and with the creaks and groaning in the indoor she just toodled along and did her thing. Nice. The next day she went on a hunt trail ride, the same storm system spitting snow and winds- I had the sellers trainer ride her- and the mare did super on the terrain and in the group. I figured with that kind of attitude coming off a 3 year layoff there was something good to work with so I wrote them a check. She pulled a pony stunt back in January so I’ve backed down a couple things with her in the hunt field, however, for a first year horse she is pretty rock solid.

And even when the things you like about a horse are in place, I still think it takes 6 or 7 hunts to know if the horse will work out. The first 3 hunts don’t count because the horse is processing the activity. It’s on the 4th, 5th and 6th hunt that horse understands the next step when the hounds come out of the kennels and the huntsman blows his horn.

The criteria choosing a hunt horse is so personal and individual from person to person. A characteristic of one horse that drives me batty might fit the next person to a T.

[Flagstaff_Foxhunter]

So many of you have put these things into words. Wise, wise, words. Very interesting point about bottom of the pecking order being good in the field. Loved the reference to not drawing energy from other horses–also right on the mark. Forward–check–you don’t want to be pushing a string. Kicking all day is exhausting. Sucking you towards the jump, awesome. 5th or 6th time out, spot -on. You guys are soooo smart!

I’m inspired to put some more miles on my plain bay, middle of the pecking order guy so he can be my primary next year. Little Miss 3 white stockings and a blaze can have more days off. Drama queen, nasty alpha mare can stay home.

[Opus1]

[QUOTE=Flagstaff Foxhunter;6163010]
So many of you have put these things into words. Wise, wise, words. Very interesting point about bottom of the pecking order being good in the field. [/QUOTE]

Agreed with all you said, but especially the above. It’s something I’d never considered before, but it makes perfect sense.

I love coming across threads like this on CoTH.

[Beau_s_mom]

Needed a horse and had very little money, so I had to take a risk. Got my APHA gelding when he was deemed to have “too much engine” at 6 yrs old (!)to be a schoolie. The vet at the pre-purchase exam said he was sound, but cautioned that he had never been out of the ring. Took a bit of trail riding and roading hounds to know I could trust him out hunting. He loves it. Yesterday we whipped in at a new fixture, crazy cold wind, so I couldn’t hear anything (so much for scenting!). I got lost. Sat still for a minute, pointed where I thought the huntsman was coming through. Duffy kept looking behind us. I finally caught on (duh) and turned around to catch the pack as they came out of the woods. He might look unconventional out there, but he is a hunt horse!

[SLW]

Beau’s Mom- a friend I hunt with had the same good fortune. She bought a QTR cross gelding who is the poster horse for Blaze of the “Billy and Blaze” books- chestnut with 4 stockings and a blaze. The horse had been owned by a yahoo trail rider. Her gelding hunts nicely in a D ring snaffle and in two years has never misbehaved once in the hunt field. In fact, she broke her leg and the horse was off work for 5 months while she rehabbed. When she started riding him again it was like he never had a day off. Just an honest and kind gelding.

[Ponyclubrocks]

Perhaps my best hunt horse (except for her high maintenance color!) is my very very alpha mare (APHA). The more horses there are in the field, the happier she is. She likes to bring up the rear and I can almost hear her say to herself, “All these horses are mine!” Other horses antics mean absolutely nothing to her. Hounds can run under her belly or bump her in the legs and she stays cool as a cucumber. She is incredibly sure footed, will jump anything and is an absolute treasure. While she prefers the rear, if the horses in front are balking about something, say a scary wood bridge or what have you, she will march to the front of the line, cross whatever is scaring the others, and then then stand there and huff as if she is saying “See, I did it , now you do it!” Then once every horse crosses, she drops back to the rear. She is a real gem.

Probably her only downside is that she has no tolerance for beginners. She knows immediately if the person on her back is inexperienced and she wont even leave the gate with them on her back. She doesn’t do anything evil, she just won’t go anywhere. She politely stands still no matter what they do and she just waits for them to dismount. I alternate hunting her and another horse as she is getting a bit older and has some arthritis issues but she is such a pleasure to hunt, I don’t know if I will ever find one her equal.

[Beau_s_mom]

I know that every horse is an individual and one cannot generalize about one breed being inherently better at hunting than another…but I think the cowboys who bred Paints and QHs got some pretty cool customers in small packages.

[Hinderella]

This is a very interesting thread. I like the bit about middle or bottom of the pecking order. I’ve never given that sort of thing much thought. My pony is bottom or near the bottom in most groups. If she has an opportunity to be the alpha with a really timid horse, she’s a “benevolent” alpha…keeps order, but isn’t nasty about it.

Ganymede, I worry that my pony will be too quick for me because I’m a timid rider. She approaches jumps enthusiastically, departs briskly and rarely hesitates. Meanwhile, up on top, her rider is pondering…“can I do that? Yes? No? Maybe?” I’m also concerned that if I can get her out in the hunt field she may get a bit caught up in the excitement and be difficult for me to hold or slow. Also, she’s a pony, and that small size seems to allow them to change direction or stop so much faster than the big guys…but perhaps that’s my imagination.

I’m working hard on my confidence, and I’m saving my pennies to see if I can ship her down to Hunter’s Rest in the fall and allow a more experienced rider to take her out and evaluate her potential.