PICTURES! Using my hackamore at the Buck Brannaman clinic!

[Pocket_Pony]

I’m here at the Buck Brannaman clinic and it is day 2. Yesterday I used my snaffle and Mac is being really good with all the commotion . . . and of course the mares that he loves, so after hearing Buck comment about the hackamore yesterday and today I decided to go for it.

I have a friend who is riding in the other Horsemanship 1 class and she asked him about trying the hackamore on her horse and he said it would be fine. He said you don’t really know how it is going to go until you try it and if you’re not ready or you find some holes then you go back to the snaffle and then try the hackamore again after you get some things shaped up. And maybe you go back and forth between the snaffle and the hackamore for a little while, but that’s the way the progression goes.

He did list a lot of things that he wants the horse to be good in in the snaffle before moving on to the hackamore, and we’ve got a lot of those things down, so I thought I’d give it a go so Buck could at least tell me that I’m not ready, or if things look okay then he can give me some pointers.

In the other H1 class he’s got Reuben in a hackamore (very early in it) and so he did talk a bit about using the reins and the progression of how you’d use them on a horse who is new to the hackamore with the goal of how you’ll eventually use them.

So Mac was really good! We worked on flexions, getting the soft feel at the walk, shortening the walk steps and lengthening, the 180/180 exercise, serpentines, backing. He did give a tip on the second 180 in the exercise because a lot of people weren’t getting it (front end moving over is the second half - after the back end moves over). Actually, a couple tips. One is that you start by bending the horse and moving the hind legs away from the inside leg (outside leg is off) - the tip here is that the front feet need to be still and your elbow of the inside hand needs to be at your hip. Then to move the front feet around the hind feet, you let the inside rein slide through your hands so that your hand is at your hip (where your elbow was) and you open your shoulder to the new direction, while bringing the outside rein to the neck and the outside leg is on the horse and the inside leg is off. I think I got that right. The hand position and the stopping of the front legs really made a difference for me.

Anyway, I just thought I’d fill you in that I was brave enough to give it a try! And Buck didn’t tell me I was not ready or that I should put the snaffle back on!

[Bluey]

Sounds good.
Did he teach how to prepare a horse on the ground first, before you get on, to check that he is ready?

Glad that you had such a good time learning.

[Foxtrot_s]

Pocket pony - I thank you for the write-up and taking the time. Well done and well written.

[Bluey]

Would be nice if you could tell us more, now that you had some time to think about it all.

We get to learn from you, that is the way it is supposed to work, thanks.

[cowboymom]

So you can nit-pick from the sidelines?

PP-thanks for the write-up, I’m glad you had a good clinic. :yes:

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=cowboymom;7550482]
So you can nit-pick from the sidelines?

PP-thanks for the write-up, I’m glad you had a good clinic. :yes:[/QUOTE]

Are you picking at me?

If so, why?

The way all of us get to learn is by, well, learning what all is out there, what others do, what else some have done.

Without those conversations, there would not be learning, just meek pats on the back and everyone would just keep doing what they are doing, never expanding their knowledge kit in their minds.:no:

That we can do that here is the beauty of horse forums, I think.

The likes of that clinician generally don’t come around here.

Why not leave the personal digs behind and just enjoy what others have to offer?:yes:

I am curious if they still teach hackamore use like the ones that taught me did, first on the ground, barely bumping the hackamore reins to feel the horse rock and move the front feet over and get the hind feet to respond to the reins directly, etc.

That seems to be what then transfers to the exercises she was describing, if I understood them right.

Or maybe today they do that differently and if so, how?

[Fillabeana]

Pocket, great to hear your report, fabulous to hear that you are doing well and ready to be working in the bosal.

Bluey, there is more detail about the clinic on PocketPony’s blog, the link is in her signature line…just click where it says ‘My Mustang Adventures’.

I’m also delighted to hear that you bought a rope. The rope and the flag are both such great tools, though they are not ‘easy’ and require some learning to be able to use effectively.

In fact, I use the flag ALL the time when I work cows (on foot, but sometimes horseback as well) and feel completely naked without it. Lots of people just use the flag to chase the horse or cow…but when you learn to use it to get, and direct, the critter’s attention, it is astounding how much you can communicate and get done with it.

The rope, I’m not great with…I’m a terrible shot and would prefer, at a branding, to ‘fish’ rather than throw the rope. Bad form here in Oregon…but that’s how they do it on several big ranches on Hawai’i, it is very low stress.

Anyway, using the rope can really help the horse learn to find your intent, to help you with what the two of you are doing. As can working cows, flagging colts, all that.

Last clinic, Buck talked about how if you are doing lateral work (leg yield, shoulder in, half pass) withOUT the horse carrying a soft feel, you aren’t doing anything. I want to find out more about that at my next clinic (coming up!).

Pocket, you might also ask Buck (if you read this before the clinic is over) about his take on saddle fit. I think he expects to have a saddle made for HIS body, and he expects that saddle not to cause fit problems on the majority of horses he rides, with some pad differences-a well made tree makes it work. Dr. Deb talks about how saddle fit is often NOT that the saddle doesn’t fit the horse right, but the horse doesn’t use itself properly so the saddle rubs and irritates due to the horse’s postural problems.

[re-runs]

Pocket Pony YEAH!

Sounds like you are having a great time at the clinic and another layer of the onion is peeling off for you.

You were smart to use your hackamore at the clinic where you could get some good input from Buck. Some people think they need to be perfect at a clinic when in fact, the real purpose of a clinic is to get any help you might need and to get some feedback to where you are from someone qualified to do so. Good going!

I always keep in mind that in any exerise a horse should always have a pivot end…that pivot end being…the forequarters or the hindquarters and that should be determined ahead of time by the rider. A horse can turn in the middle too but that is not what we are usually aiming for.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=Fillabeana;7550697]
Pocket, great to hear your report, fabulous to hear that you are doing well and ready to be working in the bosal.

Bluey, there is more detail about the clinic on PocketPony’s blog, the link is in her signature line…just click where it says ‘My Mustang Adventures’.

I’m also delighted to hear that you bought a rope. The rope and the flag are both such great tools, though they are not ‘easy’ and require some learning to be able to use effectively.

In fact, I use the flag ALL the time when I work cows (on foot, but sometimes horseback as well) and feel completely naked without it. Lots of people just use the flag to chase the horse or cow…but when you learn to use it to get, and direct, the critter’s attention, it is astounding how much you can communicate and get done with it.

The rope, I’m not great with…I’m a terrible shot and would prefer, at a branding, to ‘fish’ rather than throw the rope. Bad form here in Oregon…but that’s how they do it on several big ranches on Hawai’i, it is very low stress.

Anyway, using the rope can really help the horse learn to find your intent, to help you with what the two of you are doing. As can working cows, flagging colts, all that.

Last clinic, Buck talked about how if you are doing lateral work (leg yield, shoulder in, half pass) withOUT the horse carrying a soft feel, you aren’t doing anything. I want to find out more about that at my next clinic (coming up!).

Pocket, you might also ask Buck (if you read this before the clinic is over) about his take on saddle fit. I think he expects to have a saddle made for HIS body, and he expects that saddle not to cause fit problems on the majority of horses he rides, with some pad differences-a well made tree makes it work. Dr. Deb talks about how saddle fit is often NOT that the saddle doesn’t fit the horse right, but the horse doesn’t use itself properly so the saddle rubs and irritates due to the horse’s postural problems.[/QUOTE]

Thank you, I had not noticed that link there.

[Pocket_Pony]

I’m back! Here’s an excerpt from my blog - now I’m off to bed!

Before I recap today’s class, I want to clarify something I wrote yesterday about the main hint on the 180/180 exercise. The biggest thing I got from it was the stopping of the hind feet. Yes, check. But what Buck clarified in today’s second class is that the stop is more of a pause. When I watched him do it on Reuben, I noticed that he stopped the front feet, took about two more steps with the back feet, and then asked for the crossover in front. He said you still have to have impulsion to make the exercise work. When I tried it in class today, trying to feel for those last couple of hind foot steps, I did get better front cross-overs - but I still have a lot of work to do because I think my hand position is not quite right.

Ok, now on to today’s stuff. In the morning class he got out his rope and showed how you’d get a horse trained to stand well for the farrier. This would be a great thing for the horse mentioned in the dressage forum (something like "farrier hit horse with a rasp). Buck mentioned how people say “the horse is fine for me” but all people do when picking out feet is hold them up for 5 seconds and put them down. What they need to do is simulate a trimming/shoeing experience by holding the hoof up for a long time, in the farrier’s positioning, and use a rock or something to bang on the hoof so the sensation of nailing won’t be a surprise to the horse. Anyway, he roped his stud colt Guapo’s right hind leg (really cute red roan) because Buck said he was a little sticky on that leg in the beginning. He pulled it away from the horse and Guapo didn’t like it one bit so he tried and tried and tried to pull his leg away. Buck held it still (he didn’t fight with him, just held it) and when Guapo accepted it, Buck lowered his foot to the ground. But it didn’t end there. He wanted Guapo to put the leg down in a resting position so he’d still need to balance on three legs. When Guapo tried to put the foot down flat, Buck would pick it up with the rope and try again. I wish I had my phone with me so I could have gotten pictures, but I didn’t bring it to any of the other classes. I’ll try to remember to bring it tomorrow.

So at the lunch break, what did I do but get out my rope and go to Mac’s paddock and do some more rope work. Today I did similar to yesterday but I roped each front leg and led him by it and then roped each back leg and backed him by it. Not a lot, and not necessarily with great finesse, but just enough to get myself started on how to do it and get a feel for the exercise in a confined-but-not-too-small space. Mac was great.

I decided in addition to my hackamore again today I would put on my spurs. Buck talks about people not spurring their horses with every step or every request, and I feel confident enough in using them that I don’t think I do that (although I probably go to them more than I should but a bit more about that later). In the warmup before class started, Mac was great. We worked on a soft feel, turns with legs, transitions, and I cantered him for the first time in the hackamore. I knew from the previous class that we’d be doing lots of trotting and so I wanted to get an idea of how he’d feel.

It does seem to me that he lifts at the withers nicely in the hackamore - I wonder if this is a standard by-product of it? After yesterday’s class where we worked on a soft feel just a bit and I worked on my release, I feel like Mac “got it” and we made quick progress.

I asked Buck a lot of questions today. The first question I asked him about was getting the soft feel and if your horse goes behind the bit or overflexes longitudinally, does that mean you missed your point of release where you could tell the horse “yes” that he’s correct? Buck said yes. He also said it can be an indication of not getting to the feet - the false frame that is created when the horse’s energy gets blocked. Either way, he said the solution is to get to the feet and that what helps is working on the backing on the ground holding the slobber straps - that way if the horse overbends, he can be sure he gets to the feet and then releases accordingly. He said that (when he took other people’s problem horses) he’d much rather have a bucking horse to shape up than a horse who goes behind the vertical like that.

I think that might have been the only group question I asked. This clinic I was brave enough to ask him a few 1/1 questions. The first was again related to a soft feel. In one of the earlier classes he mentioned dressage horses who are lunged in side reins and how that is such a missed opportunity to teach a horse to get a soft feel and it only teaches the horses to be heavy. Since I’ve had that experience with Mac, and since earlier in our training days there was a lot of focus on “contact” and taking it and getting the horse to move into it whereby the horse finds his own release, I wanted to ask Buck about that. Mostly because I think it made Mac a bit pissy about going forward. Buck’s progression of forward and getting a soft feel is to start on a loose rein and to just go forward on a loose rein (transitioning up from one gait to another). When you are in a gait, you can then ask for a soft feel - but release right when you get it, even if it is very slight. Then you ask for a few soft feels with releases in between. From there you can do downward transitions with a soft feel, but not yet upward transitions. In class today we worked on that a lot. We started with the walk. Fast walk to a soft feel to a slow walk to a soft feel to a halt to a soft feel to backing with a soft feel. We did that a lot. Another person asked a similar question about his horse getting a bit sullen and crooked when asked to go forward. Buck basically said to get him straight and just ignore the attitude.

Related to that question I asked him about contact in the hackamore. He said even more important than in the snaffle is the release and making sure it is timely and complete.

A pointer Buck gave me about the hackamore is to ride with my hands wider. Because I’m not used to the coil in the reins, I tend to ride with one big loop between both my hands instead of a loop in one hand or the other. Buck said to make sure I do only have one loop and to widen my hands to really make sure Mac understands the difference between each rein. I mentioned that he said that yesterday but I wasn’t putting it into practice.

The last thing I asked Buck about was my ankles. I don’t know what is going on - if it is my boots or my stirrups or my fenders or the general fit of my saddle for me or the fit of the saddle for Mac (which I think has the most to do with it because it rolls I tend to try to heavily weigh my ankles to try to keep it even) - but my ankles are KILLING me! He told me I need to work on riding with my toes out more (great - after so many years of dressage training with a “toes in/forward” type of position) - that way I’ll be using my leg more effectively and won’t be rolling over the outside of my ankle, which is where all my pain is. Wouldn’t you know, when I tried to do that then I was much more able to use my leg effectively and resort to my spur less. I love little tidbits that might not seem like a huge deal but which help a lot!

I’m really pleased with how Mac is going in the hackamore. Buck’s pointers will really help and he did say during one of our trot sets that Mac was going well. Oh, one other thing I asked him while I was trotting around was about Mac’s neck position. He actually felt good - forward and stretchy over his back, but his head was down in a long-and-low position. Buck said related to the soft feel that Mac’s head needed to come up. I’ve got some things to focus on, like the timing of my release with the soft feel, position of my feet/calves, wider hands, timing for the 180/180, and on and on and on!

Tomorrow we may work on clapping at the end of the day. Well, we won’t be clapping, but the spectators will be. The second class today worked on that - they started lined up along the wall farthest from the bleachers and then Buck had people start clapping softly, gradually increasing the volume. Then everyone moved 10 steps forward and they went through it again. And again. And then I had to go get ready for my class so I’m not sure how it ended.

More tomorrow - can’t wait!

[Foxtrot_s]

Neither can I! You write very well.

[froglander]

Thank you for sharing Pocket Pony!!

[Pocket_Pony]

Well the last day is done - boo hoo! I had a couple a-ha moments today with regard to timing and feel, so that was great! I have come to the conclusion that the saddle I got for Mac really doesn’t fit him. Despite my best efforts at padding and riding in a balanced seat myself, it rolls on his back too much and it affects his lateral balance as he tries to keep it balanced underneath him. Frecker’s saddlery was at the clinic and had some saddles for sale and I looked at them and sat in them (even though none would have been a fit) and then was bummed that I couldn’t afford them at $5k. There were two lucky people who were riding in new saddles at the clinic, though!

I’m kind of pooped so won’t be updating my blog tonight, but I did ask Buck about saddle fit. I noticed he was riding in one saddle on his two young horses and another saddle on Rebel, his bridle horse. He said that the saddle he uses for his young colts is 6 degrees wider than Rebel’s saddle. He said that since the young horses don’t have their withers yet, they need a wider saddle to fit them. Then as they get withers, they may go in a narrower saddle. And of course he said you could pad up a wide saddle but you can’t do anything about a saddle that is too narrow. He did look at my saddle and said he didn’t think it fit him right but he didn’t think it was hurting him since I had so much padding.

There were a couple horses there that he seemed to like and commented on. I don’t think he really liked Mac, but he didn’t really comment on most horses so I can’t say that he didn’t like him. I certainly learned some good things and got to feeling a lot more comfortable in the hackamore and improved feel and timing on exercises that have been challenging me for a while.

His experience and expertise is amazing and I wish I could absorb even a small fraction of it!

There was a photographer there so I’m hoping for some good pictures!

[froglander]

Great write up about your last day on your blog Pocket Pony!!

Question–in your previous clinic, you mentioned using your leg a bit back to do your turn on the haunches, but with the serpentine stuff that Buck does (from my understanding from reading and the 7 Clinics DVDs) he says to scissor your legs so your leg is a bit forward asking the shoulders to move over.

Which method do you find yourself using? Or do they each have their own place?

[Pocket_Pony]

Hi froglander, I actually did ask Buck about that. I didn’t want to be like, “so and so said to do it this way and it is better than your way” but I did say I was a bit confused because the other way seemed to work well. His comment was (and I’m not sure I made my question clear enough so take it for what it is worth) that the other way may cause me to miss changing the bend (this was specifically related to a cow-working exercise). I didn’t press it because I don’t have enough experience to be any kind of expert on one way or the other.

What I will say, though, is that we worked so much on exercises whereby we’d scissor our legs that I got more comfortable with it so his way did become easier, and I got some really good follow-throughs with the shoulders in the 180/180 when I got my timing right. So I think that for what he was teaching us, if I could get the timing and body positioning down, it worked.

[froglander]

Okay, thanks! Guess I will go back to practicing scissoring serpentines “correctly”

[Pocket_Pony]

I feel like I’m hogging the board lately, but I don’t care because it has been slow! :winkgrin: I got my pictures from the Buck clinic - here are a couple of my favorites…

This was day 1 - I forgot to take my glasses off and I think I was scrunching them up my nose because I have a funny look on my face!

http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s654/PrincessFishCheeks/Big%20Mac%20%202005%20BLM%20mustang/Day1serptentine_zps7170e857.jpg

This is day 2 - my first day in the hackamore.

http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s654/PrincessFishCheeks/Big%20Mac%20%202005%20BLM%20mustang/Day2softfeel_zps07af72ae.jpg

Day 4 working on a serpentine.

http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s654/PrincessFishCheeks/Big%20Mac%20%202005%20BLM%20mustang/Day4serpentine_zps5c6c890b.jpg

Day 4 getting ready for a turn to the left.

http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s654/PrincessFishCheeks/Big%20Mac%20%202005%20BLM%20mustang/Day4180_zps09e72eab.jpg

Day 4 trotting along.

http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s654/PrincessFishCheeks/Big%20Mac%20%202005%20BLM%20mustang/Day4trotting_zpse5733fa1.jpg

Such fun memories!

[craz4crtrs]

Great pictures, thanks for sharing. It been an enjoyable read of your adventures for sure. I know I have struggled with my foot position, especially the last few years riding more western. As a kid, my heels were well down, and maybe a bit more forward, but I never had any trouble standing up in the stirrups at a gallop. So my leg was pretty steady. Dressage as an adult, everything changed, and that effected my stability and center of gravity. I really like my dressage saddle, too, but not for the type of riding I am doing now. Now my riding is changing back to closer to how I rode as a teen. At 55, that can be confusing for sure. :winkgrin: Now that I have a saddle that fits both of us, I am so happy and so is my mare. Been a long road to get there the past 3 years though. I love that I can go on a technical 12 mile ride and even walk afterwards. To address your sore ankles, try not to lock your ankles, I tend to do that when I am concentrating. You have good stirrups, and don’t fight them by turning your toes in as we have been taught for dressage. Turning my ankle is more effective than raising my heel trying to keep my foot straight. Again great job and keep the adventures coming.

I went and read more on your blog and saw you had changed out your stirrups to conventional ones. I guess an offset stirrup while its supposed to help keep your foot level and not hurt your knees, won’t work for everyone. I had some adjustment with my Walls twisted at first, but I did get used to them and now love them. Maybe you would prefer just a wider base stirrup, like a Nettles instead of the offset. One size really doesn’t fit all, but try different stirrups and see what you like. An aluminum 2 or 3 in stirrup hang really nice, too with out any twist or offset.

[froglander]

Pocket Pony, I was wondering if you could describe what the 180/180 exercise you often refer to is exactly?

Awesome pictures!

[Pocket_Pony]

Sure, froglander. It is the exercise where you’re walking along and then you do a flexion to the inside and ask the hind legs to step over. Then when the front legs stop you take a couple more steps with the hind to keep it engaged and you then bring the shoulders through to finish the circle and at that point the hind stops. Ideally it would be 180 with the hind moving around (think TOF, basically), then 180 with the forequarters moving around (think TOH). My circles tend to be 240 and 90 degrees or so, or sometimes 360 and then 180 'cause I have a hard time getting it right for some reason!