My gelding has recently had separation in the hoof walls. After a evaluation by my farrier he told me he was pigeon-toed and that was causing him to not walk heel to toe which led to the outer sides of his hooves to become separated from the hoof wall. He has no issues moving, he walks, trots, and canters completely normal. Even my farrier was surprised that after his trim when I released him into the field he took off at a full gallop. He is currently barefoot, would he do better if he was shod? As for riding I haven’t ridden him in a while but I was starting him back under saddle when his separations got worse. Has anybody had a pigeon-toed horse before? Did they also have separations? Were they ridable?
Do you have pictures of the horse, standing, as well as pictures of the hooves? Blaming the separation on the being pigeon toed is news to me and a minor red flag. IME there are two reasons the hoof wall separates: white line disease, or an unbalanced hoof causing mechanical separation.
To answer your first question about if he would be better in shoes… it really depends on reason why he is pigeon toed. If it is a conformational flaw, you can’t change the horse’s skeletal form – if it is a balance/shoeing/trimming flaw, you can. What you can do if it is conformational is do everything to mitigate the degree of toed-in angle – but this takes time, and lots of trim or shoeing cycles.
The thing is, you might run into problems down the line if you try to correct a conformational flaw by shoeing - the bigger question is whether a toed-in horse can stay sound if its toed-in angle is corrected to be “straight” - probably not, as that type of creep on the ligaments and compensation reversal can cause bigger issues like limb fatigue or stress. IOW “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.”
Sometimes being toed in is the result of an unbalanced hoof wall. A good farrier or trimmer can fix that problem.
I own a pigeon toed horse with good strong hooves and good growth. He stands slightly in. It is absolutely unnoticeable during movement, but someone with a discerning eye can spot it at the halt. He has straight legs from the shoulder to his fetlock – the deviation starts at his pasterns.
What has worked best for this horse is a very balanced trim – when we first pulled his plates I had a wonderful barefoot farrier and the “degree” of pigeon-toedness was almost imperceptible unless you were a farrier or were familiar with him. When I moved I had to switch farriers and the farrier I had employed had a little bit different of a trimming style and my gelding would become more pigeon-toed as it went later in the shoeing cycle.
It has been a chore getting the right farrier fit for this horse, as structurally his feet are fantastic, but he needs more sole depth and also needs a farrier that is able to catch (quickly) when the hoof starts to become unbalanced. Keeping him on a shorter cycle and finding a farrier that is compatible with my vet keeps him comfortable, and the toed-in aspect of his limbs is the least of our worries.
I would worry for your horse, are you sure it is not white line disease, or extremely unbalanced, long toes exacerbating the issue?
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I haven’t been able to get a good picture of him standing still to where you can tell he is pigeon-toed. You only really notice if you get him to stand completely still. I’ve had him checked over for White Line Disease as that was my first worry with his feet but both my vet and farrier assured me it was not that. He was very over weight when I got him and his feet were not in the best shape as he was at serious risk for founder and had cracks on all his hooves. I’ve recently switched farrier as my last one was awful. He did a poor job on his feet and kept the toes too long which I hated. My new farrier thinks that after some corrective trimming (he estimated 3 to 5 trims) that his positioning should improve. His feet are far better from when I first got him but the separation surprised me as I was not aware being pigeon-toed could cause that. He’s a rescue so I have no idea of his vetting history.
Pigeon toed is toeing in. Which part of his hoof wall is separating? Is this only on his front hooves, or also the back hooves? Like beowulf said, pigeon toes don’t cause wall separation. Pigeon toes are pointing inward, so the hoof lands somewhere on the lateral/outer side of the hoof first. Anywhere on the outer wall from toe to heel, depending on the horse. The outer wall is usually straighter than the inside wall, since it’s taking the impact and is sometimes broken off or worn down The inside wall will likely have flared hoof wall. It is flared walls that can cause separation, not usually straight ones. Unless, like beowulf said, the horse has white line disease. Can you post photos?
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If the toeing in is so slight that you can’t notice when he’s moving, then are you sure he is really pigeon toed? Pigeon toes are usually obvious to a discerning eye, even if barely detectable. Also, if it’s so slight that you can’t even see it while he’s moving, then it should not take 3 to 5 trims to fix. If the hoof is unbalanced, trim it balanced the first time. Don’t drag it out 2,3,4, or 5 trims.
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I’ve dealt with mechanical separation as opposed to wld on my mare.
Absolutely it is caused by the wall growing too long and then preparing to crack off or self trim.
To hold it in check you need a mustang roll bevel on the outer wall and your own file to keep that bevel between trims.
If there is an actual gap between inner and outer wall the farrier might want to trim away the loose outer wall.
Run your fingers up and down the hoof. You will be able to feel flare that you can’t see accurately. All that flare needs to grow out before the new strong hoof connection can be established.
If the horse loads the hoof unbalanced that would exacerbate the problem perhaps but all it means really is you need better consistent hoof care.
I would get all this fixed and horse going under saddle before I’d decide whether he needs shoes for the job he does.
Hoof balance problems are much better handled barefoot because you have constant access to monitor the foot and the foot changes every day.
With shoes you only see the foot for 15 minutes every six weeks.
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Pigeon toeing, in and of itself should not cause wall separation. Poor balancing, among other things will cause hoof separation.
Poor balancing will only be exacerbated by shoeing, as the horse will have no way to self-correct.
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Toeing in does not cause wall separation. Hooves must ALWAYS be trimmed to land flat, not trimmed to make a crooked leg look straight. To do that will put strain on the joints in the foot and leg, and cause damage and lameness. A crooked legged horse can stay sound, if no one ever tries to MAKE it’s legs look straighter by trimming it unevenly. If flares are removed after the hoof is trimmed level, the feet usually “look” straighter. This causes some confusion among green horse owners in thinking that it is the trim that has “made” the leg straighter, which is not the case at all. What is causing the separation is perhaps unaddressed flairs putting pressure on the white line.
Shoeing the horse will not “fix” the problem of wall separation, nor will it make a poor trim better.
Unfortunately, I think you are still hunting for a farrier who can look after your horse’s feet correctly. Sometimes it takes substantial sorting through the chaff of farriers who claim skill they do not have to find one who can actually do the job correctly. Some have taken a weekend course, and hang their shingle out. Others have been doing the job badly for decades, and still don’t know that this is the case. All claim skill. Trust no one. Look at the jobs done on other horses and make your own decision about their skill level before chancing letting them work on your horse. It’s pretty scary out there. It is necessary to acquire enough of an eye for quality work to be able to recognize it when you see it.
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Agree with everyone about pigeon toed conformation. I’ve known a few, and none had wall separation issues. You can see it when they move, and it can look worse when the toe is too long. While they will load the outside of the foot more, which can cause some flaring on the inside, they still need to land pretty flat. If not, then the trim is off.
If the horse has had poor quality feet, prone to chipping or flaring, if the ground is hard, if you are adding concussion by increasing workload, then these may be reasons to put shoes on while you fix the nutritional and environmental reasons for the poor feet. But the correct trim will still be the correct trim. The only difference may be that if you keep the horse barefoot, the walls may need to be rolled more to try to stop that separation from happening. Or shorter trim cycles to stop flaring before the hoof starts to self-trim.
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I had a mare who was pigeon toed. I didn’t know. I knew I didn’t like the farriers in the place I worked but I was young and went along with them. First using one and then the other one.
By the time I brought her home a year later she was slightly lame. Not all the time but intermittently. My farrier did her while I was not home.
When I arrived home she was dead lame. She could not make it across the paddock.
I rang him immediately. He told me that she was pigeon toed. She had not been being shod as a pigeon toed horse. Don’t worry she will be lame for a week and then she will come sound and never be lame again. He was dead right. She was never intermittently lame again.
Fast forward a decade or two. I move away. I am using the farrier next door everything is fine until his son starts doing them.
I paid for my old farrier to come out.
By this time it had been 10 weeks since he was trimmed as I refused to use the other farrier and waited.
He said he has a slightly club foot and the other one is pigeon toed. What they have done is cut the other foot back to match the club foot and cut the hoof straight instead of pigeon toed. As a result of this he had been lame for 5 weeks. AND My farrier said he could not do anything yet as that hoof did not have enough on it to cut back. AFTER 10 weeks.
Fast forward a month. A happy sound horse. It is worth every cent to pay him to travel here.
I thank everyone who has given their advice. I know my fair share about horses but there is always something I don’t know. This is my first time dealing with a pigeon toed horse so I was concerned on the advice my farrier was giving me. I had recently switched after weeks of looking for a new one in my area. I’ll take everyone’s advice seriously. I love and want the best for him after his tough time in life.
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