I’m curious to learn more about Pilot sons and grandsons at stud.
Especially Perpignon and Peter Pan -
Peter Pan’s career is very impressive. But Perpignon’s sons, Periguex and Provider are both also interesting, and look very nice.
Anyone have experience with offspring from any of these stallions that they are willing to share? Trainability and temperament in particular -
Pilothago is available from Team Nijhof also, one of the last direct Pilot sons.
[QUOTE=sixpoundfarm;8821268]
Pilothago is available from Team Nijhof also, one of the last direct Pilot sons.[/QUOTE]
As far as temperament/trainability, Pilot is known to give spooky (and somewhat tricky) offspring/descendants. I have seen it myself in his descendants. And I saw a stallion after him at a studfarm I visited (don’t remember the stallions name right now ofc), but the stallion owner said he was a tricky one, like the rest of them. I had a mare who had him in her direct line 4th generation, and she was an absolute sweetheart though(maybe it helped that he was so far back :winkgrin:) Hope that helps! 
I own two Pilot grand offspring both by Paparazzo. They are busy minded individuals and the gelding especially can be tricky and a spook. Finally now at 10 he is getting more settled but he is not for your average owner! The mare, his full sister, is an easier version of him, much less spooky and more workmanlike (like most mares are!). I had another mare by Paparazzo out of a different broodmare, she was tough! I ended up giving her to a pro rider who specialized in difficult/challenging horses.
The first horse I trained to jump was a Pilot great grandson (through Pidgley, a son of Pilox). If I’m being totally honest, though, I put the flatwork on him, and he taught himself to jump. I was told he had a typical Pilot-descendant personality, which was definitely on the quirky side. Very talented, very athletic, and once he understood his job, he was very reliable. So despite being difficult to start, there was a really good brain for sport in there. Also very lovable on the ground. He was best-suited for stadium jumping.
I wouldn’t necessarily call him spooky, but he was tricky for most of the year I worked with him. He really objected to being off-balance, and he would take advantage of me and toss a buck if I were off balance. He also bucked on landing if he rubbed a fence. All of this went away over time though. He insisted that I ride correctly, which I loved, but yeah it was tricky. He made me a better rider and a better trainer.
There was also a closely related Pidgley daughter nearby. She was a little more naturally balanced than the gelding I rode, so she might have been easier to start. Her owner/trainer was male, and having a little more physical heft may have helped him too. I don’t know what she was like when she was totally green. I mostly saw her in jumping lessons, and he just pointed her at jumps, drove her straight at them and let her take care of the rest.
Thanks everyone for the feedback. Very helpful. The mare I have is Niccolo Dell Arca in her sire line (4th sire)… Pluchino XX who founded the P line is also a Niccolo Dell Arca son. So it is an interesting thing to look into.
And my mare is awesome, but definitely quirky, tricky and not for everyone. An incredible jumper… Schooling lots of flatwork pays great dividends. Busy minded is a great description… Lots of spiral in and spiral out helps her. She definitely demands I ride correctly… But when I do - wow. Super rewarding.
I’m not sure totally duplicating it is wise. But it is interesting… I think from all the sons and grandsons I have seen, plus what my mare brings to the equation, a foal would definitely be a fantastic jumper.
I liked seeing video of Pilox. Wish I could see video of Perpignon. A good trot is key… That’s the mares weakest gait. Uphill build and a little more bone is great.
You are worried about duplicating a horse that will be 5 th and 6th generations back for the foal?
It is possible that your mare has traits that come from the same genetics as a Pilot son, but it is not likely as you have the input of at least 30 and more like 64 other horses going that far back.
And moving forward there are thousands of horses with the sire you refered to in their pedigree such as Glocks Undercover.
[QUOTE=stoicfish;8823283]
You are worried about duplicating a horse that will be 5 th and 6th generations back for the foal?
It is possible that your mare has traits that come from the same genetics as a Pilot son, but it is not likely as you have the input of at least 30 and more like 64 other horses going that far back.
And moving forward there are thousands of horses with the sire you refered to in their pedigree such as Glocks Undercover.
http://www.horsetelex.com/horses/pedigree/46461[/QUOTE]
I didn’t mean duplicating the Niccolo Dell Arca… I think that could be interesting. The correct term is “cross duplicate” in terms of having him in both sire and dams direct sire lines.
I meant I didn’t want to “duplicate” some of the temperment quirks particular to my mare… And apparently so e Pilot offspring as well. Some of what was shared about Pilot’s offspring being tricky and spooky is similar to my mare. I would LOVE to duplicate her talent… Especially her jumping talent… And she is awesome when we get through some of her quirks. And very rewarding to ride. But not easy and not very ammie friendly.
I want to try and match her with something talented that may be a bit easier to start… I’ll be breaking and starting a youngster myself.
I was told not to double up on Voltaire in less than 4 generations so it makes me wonder how prominent/resistant to fading way (!) certain unwanted traits can be.
I definitely don’t know that either my mare, or Pilot’s trickiness comes from the Niccolo Del Arca in the sire line. And even though the mare is not easy… She’s not very spooky. A delight to take out on trails and pop over logs and through streams and stuff in the woods. And she’s definitely smart and a quick learner- just a bit hot. Her issues could definitely come from different horses in her pedigree.
Like others have mentioned about Pilot offspring, she is DEFINITELY not forgiving when my position and balance are not good. On the positive side, I have found riding her forces me to pay more attention and be less sloppy, and when I am very focused she is exceptionally good. Especially on the flat. She’s always good over jumps - but would be brilliant with a better rider than I am.
I do believe Niccolo Dell Arca is known for being a TB stallion who transmits good jumping.
So that’s a bit of my interest in learning more about the P line horses. I’m not sure of another good way of finding that particular sire line. I believe it has all died out in pure TBs. it looks like Pilot and his sons are the best option to consider. I just would want to identify sons known for better temperaments.
Provider is listed as a possible Hunter sire. That actually is interesting to me… He’s a Perpignon son
Apiro’s dam sire is pilot
I rode a horse by Piquet (son of Pilot) and out of Paloma (granddaughter of Pilot). He was 17 when I first met him and was a gift to my then trainer. One of her clients had been given him by her old trainer with the idea that he was supposed to be a suitable trail horse for the father, in an area with stereotypically spooky suburban trails. Given that the horse was freaking afraid of stuff on the ground and the dad was a weekend rider at best, you can imagine how well that went. One day he spooked at something, the dad fell off, and still has a scar on his knee.
My horse was lame at the time and Pharaoh needed to get back into shape, so he became my project. He spooked at the hose coiled on the ground outside his paddock every time I took him out. Other than white boxes, he was brave to jump, though a bit frantic when we first had him. He never did anything really bad or scary under saddle. Even when his head and tail were both straight up in the air and he was snorting, he felt quite safe.
His current riders (he’s 22 now) are, I think, a dressage amateur a couple of times a week (I had started taking occasional dressage lessons on him and the dressage trainer liked him quite a bit) and a short stirrup rider. He’s done some ISHA shows and is generally a pretty good baby sitter.
He’s probably spookier on the ground at this point. He got to the point where he trusted me pretty well and I think that I’m still the only person that could clip his ears without a major battle and/or drugs. He especially hates things with electrical cords for whatever reason, perhaps not related to his breeding. If he feels pushed around on the ground (like you back him into a corner or try to twitch him) he will strike out. I had quiet cordless clippers and he trusted me.
If anyone’s curious, here’s a photo: https://scontent-dft4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/458771_4603667523699_1035573813_o.jpg
I have a mare o/o a Pilot damline (Pessoa). Love her to bits! She is not one to suffer fools, but tolerates mistakes and rider errors all day long, if she likes you. I don’t really know how else to describe it – if you have a connection with her, she will do anything for you. Brave, honest, and loves to hack out as well.
I’m sure the G-line on top, helps! 
We have a 4 year old Periguex son and he is self confident and calm minded. Not the least bit spooky or quirky.
I have a stallion that is a grandson of Pilot. Figaro B is by Pavarotti vd Helle (by Pilot). Fig is a classic hunter - a hack winning mover with a beautiful jump. He was very successful in the hunter ring. He is a stamping stallion. - producing offspring that not only look like him, but also share his movement and jump. Great temperament as well. Not spooky at all. It’s possible that his great mind came from his dam sire Wellington.
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