Pinching Knees vs Using Seat - what's the difference?

[eightpondfarm]

It took my coach observing yesterday to tell me that my greenbean chonk of a buckskin (western dressage candidate) was listening to my hips! I had no idea he was already ‘there’! Experimented with some stops and serpentines and 90 degree turns (all at a walk) using only my torso and wow… what a thrill. No longer is he so concentrated so much on learning how to balance with a rider, he’s already actually paying attention to me. …as for gripping with knees, i’ll do that if i feel i’m losing control over a horse going wild, but that’s just to stay aboard.

in my defense…i was too busy watching my OTHER horse that she was holding, cause he kept trying to drop and roll in his newly saddled body. I got very little out of my lesson with the buckskin but it seems like he got something LOL. Meanwhile…young Standardbred got in his first mounting. (then dismount and hop back up on buckskin) Then his first few steps, (then hop back up on the buckskin) then his walk across the arena. (then unsaddle both and let them roll and roll and roll and eat a carrot in the wonderful and fun and entertaining and cool training arena. All that in one hour…phew!

[anon68314200]

Mary Wanless has much of this sorted out. People’s prejudice against her is self defeating. Ride With Your Mind Essentials: Innovative Learning Strategies for Basic Riding Skills https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0078XGBCS/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_Z6MKMQ2PX9DVVPNFQ4Q0

[J-Lu]

Yep! I isolate my thigh muscles from my butt muscles most of the time. I have to think about this when I’m doing a half halt (I’ll have to think about this when I ride next) but I surely use just inside thigh and seatbone pressure with outside rein to ask for shoulder-in. Nothing below the knee involved unless I need to fix the bend. I primarily aid for shoulder in with my inside thigh and hip, with supporting rein aids.

I come back after extended whatever with slightly closed thighs but a long leg and weight aids that say “don’t drop a gait!”. My butt is involved in stopping the motion of my hips I think but my butt is not tightened at all. I try to always avoid a tight but which seems to make me rise “above” the saddle. But I’ll think about this next time I ride! I really try to isolate all body parts so my horse can better decipher what I’m asking. I also use one seatbone or the other regularly and have some mobility in my seat because of my practice of using one, the other, both forward, both back or no seatbones. It’s a constant journey!

[J-Lu]

Love it!!

I regularly warm up with lengthened and collected walk, leg yields, shoulder-in, haunches it, side passes across a pole, etc as much as I can on a loose rein to get the horse to clue into my aids for the ride…my seat, let and aid aids. I rely on rein aids for more collected work. But I would like for my horse to really tune into my seat, weight and leg aids. I’m fine with spending a whole session working at the walk. It’s not physical exercise as much as it is mental exercise and slow enough for the horse to really mentally process what is being taught. My guy moves 100 mph in his brain and this approach really helps him understand what I’m asking him to understand and develop upon. I didn’t have to go through this with other horses but I have to with my current horse. He’s super smart and questions the training rather than being super smart and accepting the training (like my last mare). I adjust to the horse I’m riding/training.

[merrygoround]

Actuallly, you slow or stop your body from following the rhythm. One way to help accomplish this is closing both inner thighs making sure you don’t tighten your gluteals. Pinching knees alone isn’t all that helpul.

As you ride, you’ll find relaxing and tightening your inner thighs, are a constant , as is using the turning of your hips and the closing of one or the other thigh, It is all isometrics, and horses from a young age will follow this.

Unfortunately many horses have been deadened to the seat because of constant poor riding. They can be retrained but it’s a lot more pleasant if it isn’t necessary to do so.

Unfortunately too, the quality of teaching is inconsistent in many areas of the country , and the attempts to set a standard are pathetic, unless under the auspices of a specific group, such as the H/J Assn, the USDF, or USEA.

There have been many helpful posts on this thread.

[wanderinglemon]

@merrygoround

There have been many helpful posts on this thread.

Yes! I have definitely learned a lot. And it is crazy that I really was not taught anything about using the seat besides “leg means go” in my decade of riding as a minor.

My poor horse is a saint for putting up with the myriad of conflicting aids I have inflicted on him while experimenting. It will definitely take some patience and consistency to retrain him in a correct manner.

[eightpondfarm]

Find yourself a good dressage coach. Seek the best you can get to (or that will come to you)

[blue_heron]

To me if you do this and find yourself immediately sore your twist is too wide in your saddle.

[PaddockWood]

Good point. Yes, I do ride a WIDE hoop treed horse. But, no pain immediately. Just noticed I could feel the rotation effort the next day.

[SuzieQNutter]

@J-Lu

I also use one seatbone or the other regularly and have some mobility in my seat because of my practice of using one, the other, both forward, both back or no seatbones. It’s a constant journey!

Also inside seatbone forward and outside seatbone back for a circle and bend.

[sascha]

Shorten your stirrups a hole or so to see if that will help. It often does.

[initiate1987]

Yes! When I was in college, I groomed for my instructor, who let me tack walk her FEI horse occasionally. During our lessons (on school horses), she always had me start by doing that and when I tried it on her horse, I could hardly walk after a 45 minutes ride. I think that was the first time I realized twist actually does matter. But I noticed a huge difference in my seat and feel when I started doing that.

[Janet]

“Pinching Knees” is the OPPOSITE of “Using Seat”.

In riding, “seat” is everything from the knees to the ribcage.

When you ride, your hips need to follow the horse’s movement, and your seatbones also follow. At walk and trot, your hips go forward and back twice each stride, but each seatbone goes forward and back once each stride. By accentuating your seatbones, you encourage the horse to be more forward. By reducing the movement of your seatbones, you encourage the horse to be less forward.

But if you “pinch your knees”, you effectively “lock up” your seat, and you can not use your seatbones independently, Pinching your knees also tends to push our feet too far back.

On the other hand, “closing your knee”, by pushing your knee gently down and back also gives your horse a “slow down” aid, without locking up your seat, and keeps your feet where they belong.

[lintesia]

I think that you missed a word when you heard the ‘pinch with your knees’ thing. It had to have been “DON’T pinch with your knees.”

[sascha]

Where did anyone say that they were actually told to pinch their knees? I’m confused.

[merrygoround]

It is actually amazing what some “trainers” tell their students, beside pinching with knee, never , ever touch the horse with your lower leg, and don’t close your legs on the horse at the halt.

And people pay good money for such advice.

[lintesia]

Hmm… You’re right. I was going by the title of the thread.

If OP read it, maybe she overlooked the word “don’t”…

[sascha]

Have you everknown a trainer to advocate pinching with the knee? Who even says this?

[frugalannie]

Well unless things have changed since I was a kid, the HJ world was taught to hold with the knee (I won’t say pinch) especially when requiring posting without stirrups. AFAIK there’s no other way to post without stirrups than tightening the knees.

[sascha]

Yikes, but I meant dressage trainers

And, actually posting can be done without stirrups with minimal knee pinching. It’s great for balance and quieting lower leg and strengthening torso. That said, I hate it and have only ever done it under duress