Pinhooking results Fasig Oct day 1

[gumtree]

Hip #, Sire and dam, purchase price and the sale/date bought from.

The basic carrying cost from time purchase is around $700+ a month assuming the buyer is boarding the horse. Not including any Vet, etc. Sales entry fees, consignor fees, can be $2-3,000+. So, if the horse is being “carried” for 10 months figure around $10,000± in expenses before the horse steps in the ring. Figure $5,000± if the buyer has their own farm and doing all the work themselves. n/s means not sold, with the “hammer” price. (PS) means the horse was sold privately “post sale” and the sale was reported to the sales company. The buyer was approved by the sales company and the sales company will be responsible to collect the purchase price.

Not all “private” sales of an RNA horse are “reported” to the sales company. Also just because a horse is listed as “sold” in the results does NOT always mean the horse “changed hands”. The seller could have arranged for an “agent” to bid on the horse for them instead of setting a reserve with the sales company.

37 pinhooks cataloged for day 1

38% (14) not sold 38% So the meter is still running on these horses.
46% (17) lost money
19% (6) were “profitable” But considering the risk involved in carrying a horse for 8-10 months the ROI, the “profit” IMO was hardly worth the risk.

Take into consideration this sale is pretty much “last chance” to sell a yearling at auction. I did not take the time to see how many of these were offered at any of the earlier yearling sales.

This is the link to the results with links to the pedigree page by hip number.

http://www.fasigtipton.com/ci/results/view/2017/Kentucky-Fall-Yearlings

8 C Bernardini-On a Lark 230,000 KEENOV '16 out
37 C Graydar-Paparika 25,000 FTKJUL '17 n/s (47,000)
48 C Albertus Maximus-Peggotty 2,000 FTKFEB '17 8,500 lost a few $1,000
75 C Mark Valeski-Pleasure Cat 1,000 KEENOV ’ 16 n/s 10,000 (PS) lost a few $1,000
80 C Northern Afleet-Post Haste 12,000 FTKFEB '17 35,000 $15,000± profit
98 C Creative Cause-Princess Henri 1,000 KEEJAN '17 4,500 lost a few $1,000
110 F Strong Mandate-Proud Dame 62,000 KEENOV '16 out
116 F Strong Mandate-Pure Refinement 20,000 KEENOV '16 n/s (15,000) lost $20,000±
123 C To Honor and Serve-Queen Frostine 6,000 KEENOV '16 6,000 lost $10,000+
155 F Bellamy Road-Restless Song 1,000 KEENOV '16 n/s 1,000 (ps) lost $10,000+
156 F Revolutionary-Resurge 1,800 KEENOV '16 n/s (2,500)
167 C Paynter-Rock a Lily 2,500 KEENOV '16 n/s (48,000)
182 F Central Banker-Roses for the Star 12,000 FTSNYB '17 n/s (27,000)
186 C Gemologist-Roust 'Em Bertie 52,000 KEEJAN '17 85,000 $25,000± profit
206 C Yes It’s True-Samaritan’s Star 3,500 OBSWNT '17 27,000 $15,000± profit
207 F Warrior’s Reward-Sambora 40,000 FTKJUL '17 25,000 lost $25,000
213 C Flashback-Sardonic 32,000 KEEJAN '17 2,000 lost $40,000
217 C Trappe Shot-Sauvignon Girl 45,419 CTHS-BC '17 Mix n/s (23,000)
228 C Shackleford-Secret of Mecca 3,000 KEEJAN '17 20,000 $7,000 profit
234 F Liaison-Semaphore 8,500 KEEJAN '17 2,000 lost $15,000
236 F Lucky Pulpit-Serious Heat 2,100 KEENOV '16 n/s (8.500)
238 C Noble Mission (GB)-Shared Hope 60,000 KEENOV '16 n/s (130,000)
259 F Elusive Quality-Sikara (IRE) 15,000 KEESEP '17 25,000 RNA Keeneland Sept.
268 C Sidney’s Candy-Simple Symphony 5,200 KEENOV '16 6,000 lost $11,000
292 C Bernardini-Soho Dancer (GB) 155,000 KEENOV '16 130,000 lost $35,000
299 F Cairo Prince-Soundwave 100,000 KEENOV '16 n/s (70,000)
301 F Street Boss-Southern Swing 62,000 KEENOV '16 120,000 $48,000 profit
302 F Cairo Prince-Sovereignoftheseas 65,000 FTSNYB '17 n/s (90,000)
307 F Graydar-Special Grayce 35,000 FTKJUL '17 10,000 lost $35,000
314 F Overanalyze-Spring Dragon 1,000 KEEJAN '17 5,500 lost $15,000
317 F First Samurai-Starlite Starbrite 6,000 KEEJAN '17 6,500 lost $9,000
323 C Mineshaft-State Visit 50,000 KEENOV '16 110,000 $50,000 profit
330 C Alternation-Sterling Vow 12,500 KEEJAN '17 8,000 lost $12,000
340 F Fed Biz-Strength of Mind 41,000 KEENOV '16 10,000 lost $40,000
342 F Quality Road-Striking Tomisue 75,000 KEENOV '16 n/s (95,000)
347 C Majesticperfection-Suchaprettygirl 7,000 FTKFEB '17 n/s (19,000)
352 C Take Charge Indy-Summer Scene 1,000 KEEJAN '17 n/s (12,000)

[skydy]

It’s a tough business isn’t it?

OT but I was surprised to see a gelded yearling in the sale today. I just haven’t seen that very often.

[pologirl27]

@skydy

It’s a tough business isn’t it?

OT but I was surprised to see a gelded yearling in the sale today. I just haven’t seen that very often.

Someone (Mid Atlantic TB?) did stats before the Timonium Sale and 4/500 odd yearlings were gelded.

[Where_sMyWhite]

gumtree, thanks for summarizing profit and loss figures. Nice that a few made a profit but yes, a tough business with more loosing than profiting.

Overall, I wouldn’t expect to see a gelding at a sale like this unless there was a real reason for it. I’d rather leave them intact and let the buyer make that call.

[gumtree]

@skydy

It’s a tough business isn’t it?

OT but I was surprised to see a gelded yearling in the sale today. I just haven’t seen that very often.

Gelding a yearling is almost always done for other reasons than for temperament. Most of the time it is because one or both are un-descended/hung up and will need to be surgically removed at some point. The horse might have been kicked, etc. Being gelded as a yearling is a dent. The consignor will give the full story if asked.

Some will be found in just about any yearling sale. Most will say “colt” on the sales page. They may have been gelded after the entry. Maybe before and the sellers choose to disclose it at the sale. People could dismiss the horse without ever looking at it. If it is a nice horse good chance buyers will still be interested after being informed. After all 90%? of all horses are gelded anyway.

It would be a huge dent in a very well bred colt. Even thought the chance of even the most royally breed colts will end up being good enough to be stallions.

[skydy]

@Where'sMyWhite

gumtree, thanks for summarizing profit and loss figures. Nice that a few made a profit but yes, a tough business with more loosing than profiting.

Overall, I wouldn’t expect to see a gelding at a sale like this unless there was a real reason for it. I’d rather leave them intact and let the buyer make that call.

I think he’s the first I’ve seen at a yearling sale.

I guessed he must have had a nasty temperament because although he didn’t scream “Stallion Material” to me he wasn’t bad, certainly not so bad that you’d geld him to make sure no one uses him for breeding.

Maybe there was a medical issue… He was listed in the catalog as a colt, the announcer corrected to gelding when he was in the ring.

[gumtree]

@Where'sMyWhite

gumtree, thanks for summarizing profit and loss figures. Nice that a few made a profit but yes, a tough business with more loosing than profiting.

Overall, I wouldn’t expect to see a gelding at a sale like this unless there was a real reason for it. I’d rather leave them intact and let the buyer make that call.

Your welcome. I do it for my own education of the market. Sinks in more when one does the research.

Tough business yes. But I doubt anyone pinhooking, wealings, short yearlings is “pointing” the horse for this sale. Like I said, last chance. I would bet the majority of these horses had issues, weren’t ready for Keeneland September, Fasig July, etc. I would bet a fair amount have been through another sale. I just used the list TDN had on it before the sale and looked up the results. Makes for much shorter work. But I didn’t look to see if any went through other sales.

I may get around to doing day 2 & 3.

[Cathy_D]

Declan’s Moon was gelded as a yearling because his breeder intended to keep him to race himself, and he didn’t want to have to segregate him from his other youngsters. He was later persuaded to put him in the yearling sale as Malibu Moon had taken off, and he ending up selling for $100,000+. It was said at the time that being a gelding did hurt his sale price. The rest, as we know, was history.

[skydy]

@Cathy D

Declan’s Moon was gelded as a yearling because his breeder intended to keep him to race himself, and he didn’t want to have to segregate him from his other youngsters. He was later persuaded to put him in the yearling sale as Malibu Moon had taken off, and he ending up selling for $100,000+. It was said at the time that being a gelding did hurt his sale price. The rest, as we know, was history.

It’s a mystery and I suppose it will remain so to anyone not connected in some manner to the horse (or at the sale).
I’d be interested to know. Of course if the gelding becomes a world-beater we’ll find out in time.

[JJ_sLuckyTrain]

Interesting look at the results.

On the gelding issue – another illustration, to me at least, of the disconnect between the sales world and real (racing) world. As we all know, most of these guys will be gelded. Should not be seen as a fault. The breed to race folks tend to get brain surgery done early.

[skydy]

@JJ'sLuckyTrain

Interesting look at the results.

On the gelding issue – another illustration, to me at least, of the disconnect between the sales world and real (racing) world. As we all know, most of these guys will be gelded. Should not be seen as a fault. The breed to race folks tend to get brain surgery done early.

But surely not when they put them in a yearling sale? Do you see the tide turning? There are few gelded sale yearlings at this point in time.

With the really well bred ones, isn’t it likely that even people that breed to race will keep their colts entire until they have a sense of the talent the colt shows on the track?

That, and you must wait for the colt to mature to an extent so you can see what he looks like as a horse, to know if he is worthwhile to stand at Stud ( though god knows there is one very popular stallion that I would not touch with a ten foot pole if I was breeding TBs in case he reproduced himself, physically).

[Where_sMyWhite]

In my distant observation, seems like the entire colts are left that way until they show they aren’t top level performers or there is some physical or “mental” issue that justifies gelding. I don’t think the ‘breed to race’ folks geld early.

I also don’t think that bloodlines alone dictates gelding or not. I din’t think California Chrome’s pedigree set the world on fire. I do think he out performed his bloodlines.

Still too soon to know how CC’s get will perform but a less than sparkling pedigree isn’t the reason to geld, or at least not the reason to geld early.

Or Pioneerof The Nile. Didn’t set the world on fire on the track (IMO) but he certainly appears to be on track to be a strong sire.