Pinned ears when trotting in hand - 2 y.o.

[Blugal]

My two year old is usually a very sweet and laid-back mellow guy, so it has taken me a while to even get him trotting in hand. I have been working on his leading and ground manners this summer and he has been very well-behaved, given his age.

In the past few days, now that it’s cooler weather and the wind comes up, he is more lively, so I thought I could use that to my advantage and teach him to trot in hand. He is beginning to understand but my problem is that as soon as he trots, he pins his ears and looks at me very snarky, like he wants to engage in rough horseplay, and he keeps this up until we walk again.

So far I’ve just ignored it (while keeping an eye on him) and since he responds to my walk aid, praise him when he walks/halts. I have been only trotting short spurts and set it up so that we walk as we approach the gate, a natural place to slow down, because I don’t really trust him not to do something naughty when he is pinning his ears like that.

The catch is that he is over 17hh and I am only 5’2. I lead him with a chain (just in case) but he is pretty good at responding to a light cue. If he were to act up I feel that if I do any sharp reprimands he might take that as a sign that we ARE roughhousing and ramp it up. This isn’t my first youngster and I’ve had success in the past with just ignoring things like this, especially in horses that are seeking attention.

He is turned out during the day with another gelding who doesn’t engage in roughhousing with him. They run around together sometimes but the other gelding is the boss. I do think maybe he’s not getting enough exercise, which unfortunately I can only really cure by continuing to handwalk and trot him until he is reliable enough to pony off another horse.

Thanks for any advice.

[DressageChic2]

if he only trots because he is fresh, rather than because you ask him to…that tells me he totally has the upper hand is humoring you rather than responding to you!

how has it taken so long to get a few steps of trot in hand? why was there no correction the first time you asked and he said “nah”???

you cant tell him off for looking snarky but i think his training in general needs a look at if you are relying on the weather to help you…you also “dont trust him not to do something naughty”…sounds like he is training you!

you dont need to be ponying him and he doesnt need more play time, he needs manners. my previous stallion (16hh) and current pony colt (13.2hh) are out on their own but with horses close by and both had impeccable manners. they might toss their head or snort but nothing more. any nipping is dealt with immediately and very firmly, i wouldnt accept them deciding if they would move or not.

[Blugal]

Thank you for your response. I train alone 99% of the time and have avoided lunging due to his size and growth rate. He has been quite gangly as he went through growth spurts.

I don’t like teaching them to trot by tapping with a dressage whip, they tend to go sideways instead of straight.

What do you recommend for sharpening him up to trot in hand?

[halt]

I’d put a rope halter on him instead of a chain. I am not a huge fan of them on youngsters and I think a chain personally makes them more defensive than a rope halter does. I know that when you need extra stopping power, you need it, so I prefer to use a rope because it releases immediately (unlike a chain) but it also has a softer bite which IMHO makes their behaviors less defensive. I also think a chain makes horses less willing to go forward.

I agree he needs some more manners but I’ve been there… these “gaps” sneak up on you… I was guilty of it too, with our first filly which was a PMU rescue. I always was “oh, she’s a baby, I don’t want to get after her yet – she just doesn’t know”. Needless to say when we backed her we had to revisit some things that had been completely and totally my fault.

Are you in a ring? Some low-stress things that I think you can work on with a 2 y/o daily:
Walking/halting on command
Moving off of halt on command
Backing up on command
Moving hips over (with dressage whip)
Neck stretches (the rope halter is great for this)
Walking over poles
Walking around the farm

For starting to trot, I would carry a whip, say “aaand TROT”, tap flank and start trotting yourself. Repeat until they get it, trot 2 steps, and halt. Don’t let him drag it out - ask, and if he doesn’t deliver, he gets a tap on the flank. No being nice anymore. For babies, it’s easier to always ask for trot on a specific spot in the ring, the same time, every time, until they get it.

I think some babies at first think the trot in hand is, as you said, an incitement to play. Ignore it, keep asking for trot in the same spot, and halt in the same spot, every time you get to that side. Honestly, doing this every day is not, in my eyes, too much work for a two year old.

[Angela_Freda]

Why can’t you free-lunge?

Daily handling is an opportunity to reinforce skills you will use at other times in hand… including building a vocabulary that includes: Walk, Trot, Whoa, Stand…

Do you lead him daily, a couple times a day? Do you do work with him with activities like grooming, etc where you can reinforce your ‘space’ and your status as the one in charge? It really only takes a few minutes a couple times a day to get this done for most.

I think young horses DO need the opportunity to play and blow off steam in order to be ready to work and attend.
Setting them up to succeed, making the right answer easy is smart IMO.

[halt]

Oh and… the other thing I’ve learned with youngsters… if it is a riotous day, or if they are particularly fresh, or some times you can just see they are going to be fractious just by the mischievous gleam in their eyes… sometimes it’s better to abstain from trying to make that a “teaching moment”. I’m not saying you should never work on them when it’s windy or when there’s a tractor outside the indoor, but sometimes there’s a hill out there that isn’t worth dying on, and it’s important to be able to recognize that.

On those days I keep it really simple… as in hand walk and walk/halt or go over poles…

[Blugal]

Thanks for all your responses! I feel that I am on the right track, my only concern is the ear-pinning snarkiness, which is completely out of character. It could be the weather, I guess, but when we are walking he is so calm and obedient.

@halt

Are you in a ring? Some low-stress things that I think you can work on with a 2 y/o daily:
Walking/halting on command
Moving off of halt on command
Backing up on command
Moving hips over (with dressage whip)
Neck stretches (the rope halter is great for this)
Walking over poles
Walking around the farm

I do all of the above, and have even walked around the neighbourhood with a fellow boarder and her horse.

@halt

For starting to trot, I would carry a whip, say “aaand TROT”, tap flank and start trotting yourself. Repeat until they get it, trot 2 steps, and halt. Don’t let him drag it out - ask, and if he doesn’t deliver, he gets a tap on the flank. No being nice anymore. For babies, it’s easier to always ask for trot on a specific spot in the ring, the same time, every time, until they get it.

I think some babies at first think the trot in hand is, as you said, an incitement to play. Ignore it, keep asking for trot in the same spot, and halt in the same spot, every time you get to that side. Honestly, doing this every day is not, in my eyes, too much work for a two year old.

I agree it’s not too much work. I am using the same places in the ring to help with repetition.

@halt

sometimes there’s a hill out there that isn’t worth dying on, and it’s important to be able to recognize that.

I completely agree. As usual with horses, I have a new one that isn’t playing by my old rulebook. He is such a mellow lazy-ass so I decided to change tack and use what I can (a couple days when he’s feeling lively) to get the ball rolling!

@Angela Freda

Why can’t you free-lunge? … do you lead him a couple of times a day?

We are not allowed to let horses loose in the riding ring to run around. I have chosen to work him this way until I have basic control/obedience. I would ideally like to pony him so he isn’t doing endless circles on the lunge. I can only lead him once a day, as the barn is a drive from my house and work. He does get led once more going to/from his paddock but there is no training during that time. I do groom him and pick up his feet and on weekends I try to do a bit more, like putting on the saddle pad or learning about clippers or hand-grazing.

[Angela_Freda]

@Blugal

I completely agree. As usual with horses, I have a new one that isn’t playing by my old rulebook. He is such a mellow lazy-ass so I decided to change tack and use what I can (a couple days when he’s feeling lively) to get the ball rolling!

We are not allowed to let horses loose in the riding ring to run around. I have chosen to work him this way until I have basic control/obedience. I would ideally like to pony him so he isn’t doing endless circles on the lunge. I can only lead him once a day, as the barn is a drive from my house and work. He does get led once more going to/from his paddock but there is no training during that time. I do groom him and pick up his feet and on weekends I try to do a bit more, like putting on the saddle pad or learning about clippers or hand-grazing.

How is he for whomever does this [bold]?
I’ve found simple things like asking them to halt, asking them to walk slower, and then walk faster… just mixing it up when bringing in/taking out can do a lot, especially if those vocal cues are added and used consistently. Basically ANY handling is training… and you can train that going in/out is sleepy, not paying attention to handler time, or listen to me cause you don’t know what I will ask of you time.

[Blugal]

@Angela Freda

How is he for whomever does this [bold]?
I’ve found simple things like asking them to halt, asking them to walk slower, and then walk faster… just mixing it up when bringing in/taking out can do a lot, especially if those vocal cues are added and used consistently. Basically ANY handling is training… and you can train that going in/out is sleepy, not paying attention to handler time, or listen to me cause you don’t know what I will ask of you time.

Thanks Angela - you are right of course. He is usually lazy to lead, unless he knows it’s feeding time, then he is very eager to march to his pen. The barn owner doesn’t have time to train him, and won’t do it. It’s my responsibility during my time with him.

[NancyM]

IMO, I’d do some lunging with him. Lunging is not endless circles. But it is “putting him to work”. Doing that establishes the relationship you need with him in order to train him. " Lunging" with a baby takes about 10 minutes, total, and you are finished. It can be done in a round pen (easier), or on a line (more trying because you are putting pressure on both ends at once). You put pressure on him, and he moves his feet, pressure is released, and you tell him how well he is doing and what a good horse he is. He learns voice commands. He experiences the relationship with you, cause and effect, pressure and release. If he is pinning ears at you now, you do not have a healthy relationship with him, he is attempting to control you, influence your behaviour, make YOU do HIS bidding. This will become dangerous at some point, for you, if you do not get this under control soon. Horses do not pin ears at individuals (human or equine) that they respect. They pin ears at underlings, whom they are dominating, and making them move, influencing their behaviour, sending them away. Fix this now, fix it early. Being “lazy” is not an accepted response. Being “bossy” is not an accepted response. Get the response you need, and reward that- stepping out on command, walk, trot, whoa, not lazy, not attempting to control you or what you are doing.

[PonyPenny]

@NancyM

IMO, I’d do some lunging with him. Lunging is not endless circles. But it is “putting him to work”. Doing that establishes the relationship you need with him in order to train him. " Lunging" with a baby takes about 10 minutes, total, and you are finished. It can be done in a round pen (easier), or on a line (more trying because you are putting pressure on both ends at once). You put pressure on him, and he moves his feet, pressure is released, and you tell him how well he is doing and what a good horse he is. He learns voice commands. He experiences the relationship with you, cause and effect, pressure and release. If he is pinning ears at you now, you do not have a healthy relationship with him, he is attempting to control you, influence your behaviour, make YOU do HIS bidding. This will become dangerous at some point, for you, if you do not get this under control soon. Horses do not pin ears at individuals (human or equine) that they respect. They pin ears at underlings, whom they are dominating, and making them move, influencing their behaviour, sending them away. Fix this now, fix it early. Being “lazy” is not an accepted response. Being “bossy” is not an accepted response. Get the response you need, and reward that- stepping out on command, walk, trot, whoa, not lazy, not attempting to control you or what you are doing.

I agree, she is coddling him. You cannot ignore bad behavior. He is testing you and winning, because she is somewhat afraid of disciplining him. The problem will only get worse. There is a pecking order and she has to be the boss. If it were my horse, I would engage a competent trainer to help me. I hope the OP wears a helmet when she is working with him.

[halt]

As a slight hijack, what do you do about a youngster that pins their ears whilst being fed grain?

I ask because our filly has started to make faces while we dump grain only. Believe or not, I’ve never actually had a horse that has been food aggressive before, and our last filly and colt did not ever do this. I have been making her back up/away from the bucket before dumping and not dumping until her ears are pricked again, but part of me feels that will make her feel more defensive about it. She lets you brush her face/pet her and does not make faces once she has the grain. She does not do it while you are feeding hay.

[JB]

@halt

As a slight hijack, what do you do about a youngster that pins their ears whilst being fed grain?

I ask because our filly has started to make faces while we dump grain only. Believe or not, I’ve never actually had a horse that has been food aggressive before, and our last filly and colt did not ever do this. I have been making her back up/away from the bucket before dumping and not dumping until her ears are pricked again, but part of me feels that will make her feel more defensive about it. She lets you brush her face/pet her and does not make faces once she has the grain. She does not do it while you are feeding hay.

Food doesn’t get put down until they are looking at you with ears up. It’s that simple, though not always that easy, so you have to make sure you have some time. It’s not going to make her defensive if she actually gets her food and then gets left alone.

Can you avoid any dumping, and have a bucket you can take to her once she’s got a happy face on?

Or, you can just turn around and leave with the bucket if she gets snarky.

You can also try tricking her into putting her ears up - crinkle bag or something - to make faster progress. I realize it’s a bit of a disconnect between no food because of ears, but if you give her food immediately on ears going up that’s the connection you are really trying to make anyway - almost doesn’t matter how the ears got up

2yos go through some period - some just a few days, some weeks or months - of seeing how far they can go to earn a higher spot in the pecking order. It’s really pretty common for even the best mannered ones to have moments of “let me see what I can get away with”.

[halt]

@JB

Food doesn’t get put down until they are looking at you with ears up. It’s that simple, though not always that easy, so you have to make sure you have some time. It’s not going to make her defensive if she actually gets her food and then gets left alone.

Can you avoid any dumping, and have a bucket you can take to her once she’s got a happy face on?

Or, you can just turn around and leave with the bucket if she gets snarky.

You can also try tricking her into putting her ears up - crinkle bag or something - to make faster progress. I realize it’s a bit of a disconnect between no food because of ears, but if you give her food immediately on ears going up that’s the connection you are really trying to make anyway - almost doesn’t matter how the ears got up

2yos go through some period - some just a few days, some weeks or months - of seeing how far they can go to earn a higher spot in the pecking order. It’s really pretty common for even the best mannered ones to have moments of “let me see what I can get away with”.

That’s what I have been doing, but the behavior hasn’t gone away. I make her get out of my space and once she stops making faces the grain is dumped. It usually only takes about 30 seconds, but I’m disappointed she still, every day, walks towards the bucket with ears pinned. It started about 2-3 months ago and I have been insisting every time I feed her that she wait/not get her food until her ears are pleasantly pricked…

Maybe we should try the bringing her to a bucket, since the other method isn’t working.

[JB]

On the pinned ears while trotting - I agree that this is a testing situation (see my last paragraph above), and while I don’t have a problem using weather to my advantage, it can’t be used to not look at the gaps in the training that make the weather an advantage.

If a horse starts to move his hind end away if you use a Dressage whip behind you, ignore it. Just push his front end away from you to straighten him out again. Making sure you are looking and posturing forward, not turning into him, helps.

You can use a lunge whip behind you so that the flicker end is behind the horse, not on his barrel or haunch, assuming he already knows what the whip behind him means (if he doesn’t, that’s the first thing to work on). You can work on that going from a halt to walk, by having him in a lunging position, just a few feet from you, him facing sideways, you facing his barrel or a bit behind. Use the whip behind his rear, lead with your other arm to the side, and work that way. That should allow that lesson to translate to you facing forward beside him.

[Hilary]

2 is a very test-y time for horses. My filly was pretty awful at that age, which made it easier to deal with - I didn’t wonder what she was up to when she was standing on her hind legs during a hand walk! Just pinning his ears is a sign, so that is good that you noticed it, and you don’t need to go to town on him the way I had to with Ms. Wanna See My Belly Button.

[Scribbler]

@halt

As a slight hijack, what do you do about a youngster that pins their ears whilst being fed grain?

I ask because our filly has started to make faces while we dump grain only. Believe or not, I’ve never actually had a horse that has been food aggressive before, and our last filly and colt did not ever do this. I have been making her back up/away from the bucket before dumping and not dumping until her ears are pricked again, but part of me feels that will make her feel more defensive about it. She lets you brush her face/pet her and does not make faces once she has the grain. She does not do it while you are feeding hay.

You are on the right track and it will work eventually. It won’t make her more defensive if you just continue on and don’t increase your level of aggression ( which seems highly unlikely in this scenario).

My mare was super pushy with mash, though she didn’t pin her ears. Once I made it a priority, very quickly she learned to back up and wait and even threw in her own flourish of looking away from me. But she was an adult horse that knew how to learn. A 2 year old is learning how to learn so it may take longer to understand cause and effect.

[Dressagelvr]

Any time someone interacts with a horse, that horse is being trained. For better or worse.

The fact that your BM “doesn’t have time to train him” is alarming when thinking about a 17 hand 2 year old.

I urge you to consider moving to a barn with staff used to handling young horses.

This is the time where behaviors are formed for the rest of his life. He needs to be handled competently or he could become dangerous.

I would keep the chain and wouldn’t lead him without a dressage whip. Your focus now is forward. You can worry about perfectly straight later.

[Xanthoria]

My 17+ hh baby did 6 months of stall rest at 3. I handwalked* him for 3 months with a chain, lunge whip and helmet. He is now a Very Proficient Lunger and Very Polite in hand too IOW it’s time for everyone to take the training of this baby seriously, and if I were you I wouldn’t tolerate any snaky faces at me, at any time - trotting, walking, standing still.

*AKA “flying the giant meat kite”

[luvmyhackney]

@Dressagelvr

Any time someone interacts with a horse, that horse is being trained. For better or worse.

The fact that your BM “doesn’t have time to train him” is alarming when thinking about a 17 hand 2 year old.

I urge you to consider moving to a barn with staff used to handling young horses.

This is the time where behaviors are formed for the rest of his life. He needs to be handled competently or he could become dangerous.

I would keep the chain and wouldn’t lead him without a dressage whip. Your focus now is forward. You can worry about perfectly straight later.

I disagree with on the fact the BM doesn’t have time to train said horse. Not her job to train the horse. Its her job to get it point A and Point B, feed it, and provide what the boarding contract says. If you want your horse trained hire a trainer special for your horse or do it yourself. BM shouldn’t have to train anything, if they do then it should be accounted for in the boarding contract and cost of board.

If my boarding problems has issues with my pony, I’m the one expected to spend the time fixing it, not the BM or barn workers.

At 17 hands though, you want to make sure he is in his place and obeying the rules 100%, very yes mam attitude. If you are unable to provide that, send him to a trainer for groundwork for a few months. If he is lazy, you need to insist on quick transition from halt to walk all the time. Make him get used to moving a good pace and work on instilling that forward from the ground. It will make it so much easier when you go to start him. Use a dressage whip if needed, don’t worry about sideways, worry about forward now, every time you ask. Don’t go working on this for more than 10 minutes at a time and when he gets it right, put him away, treat him and start teaching him a good work ethic. He should get rewarded for good forward movement.

I’m short too so I totally feel your pain on trying to handle a big 17hh, but its all in the mind, not strength.