It’s not cheating to compete in a Rider division you are qualified for. The ONLY qualification for a rider division is experience.
If the pros are eligible for the Rider division than the organizers are doing their job correctly.
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If they were eligible for the rider division I’m not sure what else the organizers could really do, people would be annoyed either way.
It seems like there may be room to tighten up the rules for who can compete in the rider division, I’m just not sure what the best solution would be. I don’t think the pro vs amateur distinction is actually that helpful; there are plenty of experienced and well-funded amateurs out there who really should be competing against the pros. Maybe make it a shorter time limit for one level above and a longer time limit for two levels up? If you tried to do a permanent cut-off for the rider division to weed out the pros that haven’t run in recent years you’d also risk alienating re-riders who competed up the levels as juniors.
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AEC qualifications aren’t really much of a consolation when the championships are almost always in the opposite coast, so inaccessible to all but the most wealthy.
ETA gas for me to KY and back would be $1700, food and an Airbnb another $1000 so we are at $2700, then horse feed, entry, stall, bedding and so on add another $1000 if I am calculating roughly right, to make $3700 at least.
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Wait I’m confused. How is it punishing the people who “can’t afford to be amateurs”? I’m not living a rich life of luxury as an amateur over here 
. “The big deal” is because I personally don’t want to compete against somebody who gets paid to ride and train horses and people. I’m very competitive by nature, I’m not going to a show to just hang out, I’m good because I enjoy competing against comparable individuals.
FWIW, at some point in time I got it in my head that the amateur division is where all the “nice” horses compete in. I have no idea where or why my brain came up with this, though. I always tried to stay away from it and diligently entered “rider” as my first choice. This past weekend I entered amateur and in my dressage warm up I was thinking “wow, this is why I’ve always entered rider, these horses are lovely!”. And then I quickly remembered I too have a lovely horse and it was OK. In my mind, “horse” division is where the pros take the green horses.
At the end of the day, pros are eligible to be entered in rider, it just personally leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
ETA: upgraded placings don’t get you a prize or a ribbon at that show though. And yes, for those of us in area VI a trip to the AECs is a dream. I calculated the cost and it will be almost $2,000 in gas alone.
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That’s almost exactly the time schedule they run here for Novice. And the number of entries.
One of the best former 5* instructors I’ve ever had used to say that the biggest difference between the pros and the more accomplished amateurs was the number of rides they were doing at home.
The amateur rides 4 or 5 times a week. The pro rides 4 or 5 times per day. That’s the difference, and it is an important difference. According to this man.
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Most of the lower level pros I know ride 4-5 extra horses a week before or after their day job, for roughly $20-25 horse, plus maybe teach 3-4 lessons a week. It’s a decent side hustle to pay for board/vet bills/entry fees. For me personally when I did it (the riding side, I am a terrible teacher) it was not anything that anyone who was somewhat brave and reasonably fit could not do-- i.e. the average amateur who rode well enough to compete at recognized events. It was mostly just doing conditioning work and schooling the occasional mildly spoiled kid or older person’s horse that needed to reminded not to stop every time it went by the gate. Most of the horses were foxhunters or barrel horses or trail horses. It’s something pretty much anyone can do if they need money more than they want to be an amateur.
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At a one day? How do they fit in more than two or three levels?
I don’t think I have one of their printed schedules … I keep a copy of the course maps, but am doing better at discarding paper not needed! LOL
Typically 3 dressage judges, 1 SJ arena, 1 XC.
Going from memory, but have been there a lot, and announced for them for about 3 years but that was a bit ago (announcing definitely keeps up with division ride times! lol ). First dressage rides are at 7:30 or 8 am. First SJ about 10 am, first XC at either 11 am or 12 pm. They are quite efficient at throughput and sometimes move up the later division XC ride times.
Not many in T, more in N, BN, and some in a pre-BN level and a speed bump level. It’s hard to say how many entries because there are a lot fewer than before the pandemic but they are building back. Well under 100 total across all divisions, though.
BE imposes a maximum of 280 riders across all sections of a one day event, during summer time with the longer light, accounting for the number of course changes required. Fewer combinations are permitted in spring and fall or when there are many course changes. Riders are allowed a maximum of five horses in any day. They can come back the next day with another load. The poor soul who allocates horses to sections, made easier with the computer eligibility checker, can move riders to other sections at a comparable level to keep sections viable. If the riders object, they can have a refund.
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So you mean all 30 Novices would be in the same division/ all Novices in the same dressage ring? Or split into 2 or 3 sections in different rings? Around here they would be split-- an event that size might have a rider and open, or two opens, or possibly a junior, rider and open depending on how the numbers worked out.
They do NOT split open, horse, rider. Or junior. They. Do. Not. Do. It.
From conversing with the organizer, splits, if any, are firstly based on the load for each dressage judge. Parsing which entries go to which split is more about riders with multiple horses to ride in the division, and which students belong to which trainers.
With that small number of entries, there are usually 5 or 6 trainers with students. It is very important to the organizer that trainers have a good experience and want to return to the venue for future horse trials, within reason of course. One trainer more or less, + students, can matter quite a bit to the organizer.
They would likely split a division with 30 entries. Below that, it depends on the factors above – dressage judges, multi-entry riders, and trainers-students. Rando riders with no trainer affiliation are spread around to even things out.
So? It might not be fair to group the “lower level pro” in with “real pros” but we had to draw the line somewhere and prevent those real pros from getting away with cheating.
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I didn’t say that there shouldn’t be an amateur division, just that it’s over the top to call it cheating or unfair when an eligible pro rides in a rider division that they are explicitly allowed to enter.
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Well, I have how reconsidered my thought supporting large classes after reading the qualifying criteria for the AEC’s. If I understand it correctly, placing in the top three in your class is quite important. So subdivided, very small classes would ensure a lot more 1-2-and 3 finishers. Thus qualifying more people for the AEC’s, with more qualified entrants, and more income.
What have I failed to consider?
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I don’t think for most people qualifying is the big difficulty, it’s more time/money/geography. I would expect it to fill this year since it’s in KY, but many people weren’t willing/ able to go in years that it was in CO or TX even if they qualified.
From my perspective, it’s tacky. Not unfair or cheating.
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Is it permitted for a rider in a horse trial to elect to ride hor concours?
I’m not in the h/j world. Does “pro/amateur division” mean a division open to both pros & amateurs? Or a broader view of classifying riders as pros or amateurs, and they must pick a lane?
What are the restrictions on amateurs that create the need for workarounds in order to show? Not as a pro, that is?
