I’m fortunate in this hot market to be able to ride potential new horses, not just buy off video. Assuming a horse is green broke wtc, what do you do in a trial ride? I have some ideas, but wanted to ask the COTH hive mind as well.
For a green horse, I would want to see the horse caught from turnout / stall all the way through grooming and tacking up. Then I would want to see the owner / their trainer / someone that isn’t me ride the horse first. Rule 1: do not trust the horse is as broke as they say it is.
From there, ideally I’d like a green horse to go, turn and stop without drama.
YMMV
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welll…if riding on the property, i’d have the seller walk along with me while i ride.
And if a trail ride, i would have seller ride along.
What i wouldn’t do is go off alone. The only solo i would do is in an arena and then only if someone else was at the rail, and that preferably would be the seller.
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Agree with lenapsadie, the more you can see of the whole process, the better. If you arrive and horse is already tacked up and sweaty, you know they’re not as quiet/broke as the owner claims.
I’d be especially mindful of general manners/attitude. You’ll be spending a lot of time working with a green horse, and preferably that time would be as enjoyable as possible. If they’re a little snot, or sit back in crossties, kick out when picking hooves, etc, I want to know. These are things where their training probably shouldn’t still be “green”, or at least less-green, so it may give you some insight as to how challenging the horse will be for you down the road (it could also mean the owners skipped basic ground manners 
).
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Very fair comments on seeing the horse(s) start to finish. I’m dealing with a very reputable rescue organization and will meet the horses in the stall, see them tacked, and see them ridden first. I’ll ride in an arena that the horses are familiar with. So my question really is what I should do when I get on them.
Depending on how green I will only ask the basics however, I will try to push a little to see if their reaction is acceptable when they have a little stress. I don’t by any means push them in an unfair manner, but I do want to know what happens when I ask them something a little out of their comfort zone.
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This.
At this point, you already know that the horse doesn’t know much.
The question is “What kind of temperament does this horse have?”
I would do things wrong on purpose.
Not dangerous, of course, but things a beginner would do.
Reins too long, loose a stirrup, lean forward, be crooked. Cling with the lower leg.
A green horse with a good temper may be surprised but will react by slowing or stopping.
A green horse that reacts by kicking out, or expressing itself by bucking, etc probably has a short fuse.
Some people don’t mind that if the horse is otherwise talented but I wouldn’t want to deal with that.
Temperament for me is the first question.
Hope you have a great experience.
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I think what you want to know about is the brain and trainability, not the existing training, if that makes sense. The last couple green horses I tried, I was not too concerned that they were cray-cray. Did watch the owner/trainer ride first, in one instance a ranch-raised western rider, and another was a polo pony trainer. Since I was looking for dressage potential, once I got a general feel for the horse at walk and trot, just asked a couple questions like, what do you do if I ask for a leg yield, how quick are you to step forward off my leg? Not that the horse is going to react perfectly to a new request, but more looking for whether they seem to be trying to listen and understand, or if they tend to be annoyed or oblivious. One prospect had the looks and movement to be a nice dressage horse, but had no desire to go forward, and though my requests that he move sideways (from the ground) or step over a pole were stupid. He tried to bite me rather than walk over a pole, so I concluded that he would be less than enjoyable to try to train for dressage.
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it does depend upon what you want. I test-rode aboard the for-sale horse with owner on another we got to a gate, and i said …let me try that and sidemoved him over unlatched, and after a small bit got him into a position to move the gate. Closed it after we were through. He was a big rangey paint …very amenable. When we got back i told the owner that he was not what i was looking for, and if i were a better human communicator i probably would have put it more gently and surrounded it with positives about her horse… She was kinda upset and said ‘but why? he did EVERYTHING for you. I have to dismount to get that gate on him’. I told her i wanted a more challenging mount.
I’m really terrible at people… i know i am. But i do want a horse that isn’t easy. I want a horse with ‘fire in it’s belly’. I adopted an arabian mare, who test rode very well, responded great, until i dismounted and climbed up on a rail fence to remount and she aggressively bucked me off. Probably wouldn’t have adopted her had she not bruised my butt.
But, that’s just me. I like a challenge. I want smart. I want athletic. I want beautiful. Tractability is not essential.
First, I would replicate the ride I saw given by the owner/their representative. See if you get similar responses from the horse. Then, pending everything is going good by this point, I’d proceed to ask for a few little things above the training level displayed. What happens if I ask for a little more connection, a little more forward, a little more lateral work or whatever. Then, pending still going good, I can see making a few on purpose riding goofs to see if the horse takes a joke.
You’ll note that the order I described has me asking the horse to work a little hard / a bit above his training before I put myself in a compromised safety situation by intentionally riding poorly.
I may come over as paranoid about safety. I am. Reputable seller / rescue / adoption org aside, horses are horses and green is green.
Also, when you watch the horse go that’s a great time to ask or formulate a list of questions. Like, ask about what they don’t show. They didn’t ride with spurs? Ask what happens if horse is ridden with spurs. Other horses in the arena? Ask what happens if there isn’t another horse in arena.
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When I go to try a young horse, the first thing I do is watch their reaction to their usual or some rider who is not me.
Are their ears on the rider? Are they distracted? Are the fussing or tense? I’m almost exclusively watching the mouth and the ears. I will check back to see the gaits but I already know what they look like from a video.
When I ride, I am paying the most attention to the feel they give me in the mouth and back. I leave my leg off and don’t nag since they won’t generally know what to do with it, but I will shift my weight and see if the horse makes an effort to “stay under me” and interpret that as an aid. I play with the flexion and see what they do - I want to feel the horse try to answer the question instead of just resist first, because I think it goes to their mental capacity for training. Similar to the above idea of putting pressure on and trying to see what the horse does with that input.
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I personally would watch the person who normally rides the horse . Have them demonstrate everything the horse can do. I watch the horse’s attitude, body language, willingness, etc… as well as how hard the rider might have to " ask" the horse to do things.
I then get on and see how the horse responds to what I ask and basically keep it simple. I am only getting a feel for how the horse responds to me and reacts to a whole new rider more than anything.
Might be world apart for everyone else but it hasn’t failed me yet!
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I was thinking along these lines - does the horse try to answer the question? Or resist?
Realize my topic may have led responses to focus more on the green part than dressage prospect part. I’m guessing if someone were trying, say, a 7 year old horse from a discipline like hunters - so, you know/assume the brain is good in terms of safe. How would you ride it in a trial to see if it would thrive or not as a dressage horse?
I was thinking of playing with flexion/accepting contact at a halt - does it try to give, curl, lift its head, etc. (and in all scenarios, gradually ask and back off if too much)
Does it listen to baby lateral aids?
Does it respond to seat - if I slow my body, does it try to listen?
Just sort of play to see how much “try” it has vs. being pissy at being asked anything.
But keep ideas coming! I’d rather have a full list of options based on what I see/feel in the moment:)
I don’t ask a horse to accept contact at a halt. They are usually much better about figuring it out with some forward motion as opposed to interpreting it as “back up.” I ask at the trot usually on a circle and see how much they accept turning from the outside aids and allowing me to flex the inside. I don’t mess with counterflexion at all because they aren’t there yet.
If I’m trying a dressage prospect and the owner/seller allows I will sometimes counter canter or if the horse is balanced set up and ask for a change to see what reaction I get.
For a dressage prospect I specifically want to know that they carry the bit quietly and don’t fuss in the mouth, that they allow me to take a feel without getting mad, and that the back generally feels like it could be mobile. I want to see a very good canter with good natural balance even if green or not strong enough to hold it for very long.
I have found that those with good mouths who carry a loose contact quietly will be the easiest to deal with - I hate fixing connection issues.
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One thing to consider … the greenie might not have good balance, yet. Esp if they are a spindly leggy type horse, balance comes pretty slowly. If that’s the case with the one you are looking at, 10m circles at anything but a walk aren’t going to help you learn much except the horse has no balance yet. Doesn’t mean the horse isn’t going to be changing and improving significantly.
Also, could you have someone video your ride? That way you can compare the you of it to the horse of it.
I’d think a lot depends on what you mean by “green.”
How old is the horse? Did the horse have a “job” before coming to the rescue, or how did it end up in the rescue?
How long has the horse been under saddle? How often is it currently being worked? What kind of work is the current rider/trainer actually doing with the horse? Since this is a rescue that you’re dealing with, try asking the person who regularly rides the horse what he/she thinks the horse will be best at and why?
As a few posters above suggested, I think that I’d first try to watch as much of the whole process of catching, tacking up, and warming up under saddle as possible. But you should probably assume that if you buy the horse and move it, some of the horse’s ground manners may (at least temporarily) get lost.
Then I’d try to replicate the ride that the regular rider gave the horse. I don’t think I’d start challenging the horse with going all loosey-goosey or intentionally messing up (unless you intend to use the horse for giving lessons to newer riders).
If the horse is green (just w-t-c under saddle), I’d just try to be tactful and quiet as a rider and only try the most basic things.
Good luck on your horse hunt!
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Depends. There seems to be a fair bit more connection in the bridle in modern, more upper crust hunters but locally I still see more loose contact. So if it’s the latter, I’m gonna do the same as above and then specifically test what happens if I ask for a bit more connection (my personal choice would be to do this in corners and/or on a circle at the trot). Also for the hypothetical hunter I’d see how he likes me taking a full seat at the canter.
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I agree that the priority is temperament. If you are looking at a green horse, you know you will be doing training or retraining.
A lot of that temperament can be assessed on the ground. If you walk the horse by hand, do they concentrate on you or are they swiveling their head at everything or calling for friends?
Can you move them sideways with your hand or a whip? Back them up? Step forwa rd?
Can they stand while you loosen/tighten the girth? Are they ok with you putting a hand on their poll or scared/ nervous? As you work with them, do they relax or get increasingly nervous?
If you go ahead with the ride, test their reaction to starting back up. Walk to and halt in the center or ga te, then ask horse to return to work. A strong resistance would concern me.
If the horse is new to dressage then I would ask for some lateral work , TOF. Shoulder fore.
If the horse tries to do what you ask without getting upset, anxious, they probably have a good mind, and good temperament.
At trot you could do some transitions within the gait.
At canter, lead changes.
As far as determining whether the horse may be able to physically perform the movements at the upper levels
Conformation is the determining factor, but a less than ideally conformed horse can still move well enough with correct training.
What others have said. Investigate this horse’s temperament.
I would ride the horse on the trail myself. I’d be most interested in how he did if you plan to ride the horse on the trail. Is he cool with you pushing against a tree to move his body over to clear your leg or does he ignore you or get upset? I’ve seen people get rubbed off on trees with youngsters who didn’t get the aids and older horses who thought it was entertaining. It’s never entertaining to the rider.
Focus on what this horse can do WITH YOU for your purposes. You’ll take the horse home without the original rider or trainer. Keep that in mind. Maybe schedule more than one visit.
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