Please Advise: Stallion for KWPN mare by Tuschinski

[Penobscot]

I recently bought a Tuschinski (Krack C x Pion) mare and have decided to breed her before turning her into a dressage horse and could really use help in choosing a stallion. I don’t have a nearby vet that can do frozen so I need to find fresh semen.
I’d like to register Dutch but it’s not essential.
She’s out of a Florencio x Ulster (Nimmerdor) mare. I’m wondering what riders/breeders would suggest to improve on her.

Pedigree and photo (at 2.5 years)

Gavotta

Any thoughts on what to add in? What to avoid? What not to double up on if there’s line breeding and what maybe to double up on?

She isn’t backed yet and only 3. Seems she’s fairly hot and spooky. Definitely sensitive. Coming along nicely with saddling, being ponied, and just getting out doing new things. A stallion with good ride ability and sensible would be good.

Conformation wise I’d want to improve the front end, neck could come out higher, could use more freedom of her shoulder, and at 15.2 hands and at 3, she won’t be a giant so some size would be good.
She’s a little short backed or square though that could change at this age. I’ve been told it comes from Florencio. Nice legs and I like her walk and canter better than her trot.
She’s very feminine and not heavy boned which is ok but her feet are a bit small for her body so could use a bit more bone and leg.

[Ticker]

I’m thinking about using Negro on my filly.
http://www.hilltopfarminc.com/stallion_negro.html
Your mare also goes back to Floristan 1 as mine does. You have the added advantage of Nimmerdor in your pedigree…very nice
http://www.eurodressage.com/equestrian/1999/12/31/nimmerdor-kwpn-stallion-century
I believe that there is some thought that Negro and Nimmerdor is a good nick which we see in Valegro.
Anyway, my filly descends from Lord Sinclair who is also the grandsire of Lord Leatherdale. I really like this line, and then I noticed that the Lord Leatherdale and Negro cross is getting attention for top performance horses.
http://www.lickleyhorses.com/2407/impressions-of-the-van-olst-stallion-show/

I thought you might find this interesting. Hopefully KWPN breeders will give you better information than I can.

[Penobscot]

Thanks for the link to info on Nimmerdor, I don’t really know much about him, just the name.
Negro and the gorgeous Lord Leatherdale x Negro sons are booked for 2014 at Hilltop–no wonder! I looked at them as soon as I realized I wouldn’t be riding my new horse much this year so could look at breeding as an option.

I’ve thought of Diego, a Negro son out of a Don Gregory mare. That would add in Donnerhall x Rubinstein. Don’t know how to get semen from him though. I don’t know of other Negro sons, I’m new to all this
Yes, would love to hear from KWPN folks.

[Penobscot]

Well, I’ve had some suggestions via PM for frozen semen stallions and I thank you! However, I need to find a stallion that I can get fresh from as I don’t have a nearby vet that’s set up for frozen.

She’s Flemming x Pion on the top and then Floristan I (Florencio) x Nimmerdor on the bottom. So again I’m curious:

“Any thoughts on what to add in for temperament and front end improvement, plus more bone without getting too heavy?
What crosses to avoid?
What not to double up on if there’s line breeding and
what maybe to double up on?”

Would really appreciate help in my thought process!

[paulamc]

All my suggestions were frozen semen as well - Jazz, Sezuan, Presidents Jack Sparrow and Wynton

this mares dominance is in Amor and Farn - she has several instances of both in sex balanced line breeding and these are both fine examples to look for in the stallion

Negro would give you more instances of these as well for sure

You could also happily double up on Weltmeyer or Florestan or Flemmingh - the opposite sex of where your mare has it though

I am sure you can find stallions available via chilled semen with any combination of these lines

Paulamc

[SamWerner]

Have you thought of UB40? The mare I bred him to was 15.2, and my baby is now 16.1 as a 4 year old, and looks like he will at least grow another inch or so. And Apache, the UB40 x Krack C cross is outrageous!!! Iron Spring Farm is so easy to work with

My baby has a very good temperament. He has just enough fire to be flashy, but even enough for an amateur to ride and handle him.

Here is a clip of my now 4 year old in a training ride with my trainer. Click HD in the lower right hand corner for better viewing.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10100657784137445&set=vb.33401537&type=2&theater

Here is a video of Apache
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWY-cm-bdrQ

[Penobscot]

Thank you Paulamc & Sam, I know very little about picking stallions though feel fairly competent about conformation and desirable traits and qualities. It’s daunting to pick a stallion, the last thing I want is to produce a horse that’s too hot or has conformation than its dam! She’s a nice mare and I want to do justice by her.

I wasn’t sure about line breeding and thank you for the info on that–I was wondering about Weltmeyer and Florestan (so many nice dressage horses have these influences) and Flemmingh too.
It’s hard for a newbie to know what crosses might work and when line breeding might give the traits one has and wants to keep.

Sam, I have a UB40 2 year old and I love him. His dam is a Routinier daughter–Hot Rod 40 on Ironsprings website. He has a great personality and movement to die for plus coming from a 15.2 hand mare he’s not lacking size, should be around 16, just right. I worry a bit that my mare might produce something too hot with UB40 though I can’t say my gelding is hot, sensitive but sensible and bold and fun!
What’s your 4 year old like?

[SamWerner]

Penobscot- My boy is a ham! He really is a good boy, he has lots of personality and charm. My trainer loves him, and thinks he has just enough spark to show in the dressage ring. He is not spooky AT ALL, he is very bold and takes things in stride. The only thing about him, which I am totally okay with, is that he is opinionated when it comes to learning something new for the first time. He will get a little puffy and let you know whats on his mind, but I think its more because he gets frustrated when he doesn’t understand something. As soon as he knows something, he never forgets and is very willing. He has never reared, bucked, taken off…or anything dangerous while my trainer or I have been on him. He is sensitive and reactive to the leg which I really like. I have two friends that bred their mares to him after they saw my boy as a two year old at a show, and they fell in love and wanted their own. They are both very very easy, and both were actually out of somewhat “hot” mares.

[clint]

I think Connaisseur is a really interesting stallion. He stood in Holland for a year, so I’m assuming he is approved KWPN in addition to Swedish. He would be mostly an outcross for your mare, except for Donnerhall, and is definitely uphill with a nice trot. Watch his videos of the Pavo cup. Oops, forgot the link: http://www.characterwarmbloods.com/index.php/stallions/connaisseur

[Majestic_Gaits]

We had been using Schroeder on our Flemmingh mare and that worked well. But usually the Flemmingh’s are longer in the back. Super fresh and will add height and a super neck. People are loving the babies too. He just stepped up to competing at FEI I-1 and was 2nd place with his new rider. www.majesticgaits.com

Iron Spring has a lot to choose from. They are always very helpful too.

You can also use most outside european approved stallions and get KWPN register A foals.

Hope that helps a little.

Kathy

[Donella]

No offence to the previous posters but I wouldn’t go anywhere near a stallion with Jazz blood if you have a spooky/overly hot mare. :eek:

Maybe Wolkentanz II? He will add type, expression and improve the topline though he needs a short backed mare (so would work for yours). He also reliably adds height. His breeding value for rideability is a very positive at 157.

[Donella]

A friend went to breed her mare to Connaisseur the other day (she has already purchased a breeding) and was informed by the vet clinic that he was not being collected right now and that only frozen is available. She has not been able to get a hold of the owner so if you are looking for fresh that might not be the best choice (though he is lovely!).

[ProspectHill]

Donella,

Was your friend ever able to breed with fresh? I am seriously considering Connaisseur this breeding season for my Idocus/Rampal mare and frozen isn’t an option for us.

[clint]

I have been in contact with Connaisseur’s owner over the last week, and she said he would be available fresh from May 1 until Sept. The normal collection schedule is m/w/f, which I truly hate, but she said she could possibly be more accommodating than that.

[Majestic_Gaits]

The KWPN Stallion Auction is about to open Feb 9th and will have a lot to look at there too.

A few choices at the NEDA Auction that is going on now too.

Ditto on staying away from Jazz lines with a spooky or not the best temperament mare.

Kathy

[ProspectHill]

Thank you Clint!

[siegi_b]

You say that you “don’t have a nearby vet that does frozen semen”… It would be worth it to me to trailer my mare for a couple of hours in order to assure the “perfect” match and have a much larger selection of stallions available to choose from.

Your mare has good bloodlines and you could really breed a very special foal if you could get beyond the “nearby vet” restriction.

Just my opinion…