Please educate me - WHITE boxers

[Tornado_Run_Farm]

[QUOTE=wendy;5891905]
why do you think he has IBS?
… Add some canned pumpkin to a good food and you get the same medicinal effect without compromising the rest of the dog’s health with poor nutrition.
However, TOTW isn’t a very good choice for a puppy; the calcium is too high and might compromise the pup’s skeletal growth.[/QUOTE]

He came with “Professional - Puppy,” which I understood to be a pretty good food, and substantiated to be 4* by the link dacasodivine posted (AWESOME source BTW - I’ve just spent 2 hrs. reading the various analyses!). I had googled about soft watery stool in puppies and a couple sources suggested it could be related to the puppy formulated food being too rich for some puppies with sensitive stomachs and at 6 months, larger breeds can be transitioned to adult dog food for that reason. I already feed TOTW - Pacific Stream formulated for sensitive dogs, and since it’s an “All Stages” dog food, I thought it would be worth a shot. I also added sweet potatoes and pumpkin.

I tried to tell this to the vet when, without thinking, I blurted out those dreaded words that instantly shuts down all communication with all healthcare professionals for any species - “I read on the internet …” And that was that - she immediately cut me off, told me my pup had IBS and that I needed to feed this and only this dog food she pointed out. I started to respond with, “Aren’t there other…,” when she cut me off again and then mumbled something I recognized as “EVO” … then end of conversation. She’s the doc, and I just paid a hefty after-hours fee for her trained opinion … so I guess I should at least consider it.

TOTW Pacific = Calcium: 1.9%; Phosphorus: 1.1%.

It might be the pred’s he’s on, but things seem to be improving a little - today’s consistencies were more like “funnel cakes” as opposed to “cow pies.” If someone can recommend a good puppy food for sensitive stomachs with better ratios, I’ll be more than willing to check it out. I was told by a former pet store owner that the different forumations for puppy, adult, senior, etc., were really not that different - that varying formulations was more a marketing ploy. I really don’t know - it’s been about 25 years since I last had a puppy and I know nutrition advice has changed considerably. (The last 5 dogs I’ve had were recycled adult varieties.)

And for those that mentioned the gas? Yes, I’ve noticed.

Thanks for the help; I’ll post a picture when I can.

[Bluey]

Just be sure to keep in mind that so much you are reading in those dog food web sites is also hype and someone’s questionable opinion, most of it without any credible studies or science behind it, pseudoscience rampant.
Just sounds like they know something, but it is all 99% guessing.

Those web sites, as here on COTH, live by the traffic and advertising and make a nice bundle for their owners.
What they say there, well, much of it is nonsense.

Feed your dog what works for your dog, he is not a ginea pig to try the latest internet dog feeding craze on, especially if it is a dog with special nutritional health issues that need stabilizing.

Do what is best for your dog, even if the Internet dog food police doesn’t agree.

[Roxyllsk]

We had a boxer growing up. Very smart and sweet dog - she lived to be 10 and had to be PTS because of cancer. She was brindled.

She had the worst gas - got to the point where she would fart then run out of the room before anyone even started yelling ‘EEEWWWWWW !!!’ And she was really drooly. A game we played as kids was to get her to drool and get a good ‘hanger’ going (we called them Ickcicles) then get her to turn her head really fast so it would wrap around her jowls. Sick but funny as heck.

But we loved her like crazy and everyone was devastated when she died.

[Horse_with_No_Name]

Picture, we need pictures!! please

I don’t know anything about white boxers as our boy is brindle but yea, Absolutely Fabulous dogs.

Our boy has a sensitive tum and we try to make sure his diet is as consistent as possible but right now there is something in the mix that is giving him shocking gas. In our hour long car drive this morning we thought (hoped!) we were driving past a tannery or processing factory so eye-wateringly bad was the smell…

[vacation1]

Just to add: if you decide to try the SD i/d food, Hills’s website often has coupons. Right now, there’s a $7 off coupon for the i/d diet.

http://www.hillspet.com/health-conditions/healthy-gi.html

[Tornado_Run_Farm]

I’ve finally had a chance to post pictures of Amigo, aka “Meego.” When I first saw him, my response was, “He’s so ugly he’s cute” … now I tihnk he’s just cute. :winkgrin: And one of the sweetest dogs I’ve ever seen - my mother even likes him and she doesn’t like dogs. http://s282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/TornadoRunFarm/Amigo/

He’s doing well, has gained weight, no other bouts of hives, and his stool is steadily getting better - almost normal now - and virtually NO gas - really! No kidding!

I’ve stuck to what seems to be working for him, TOTW, Pacific + pumpkin (calcium). Of course, he’s also sampled and enjoyed all the other tidbits that a farm offers that dogs love: fresh horse manure, horse feed dribbles, left over cat food, hoof trimmings… He sprints so fast he was able to grab a sparrow out of mid air, and by the time I could get it away from him, nothing was left but feet attached to some goo glob. What a diet plan, huh?

Thanks for all the suggestions and tips - I really appreciate it.

[mroades]

omg can we borrow him?? we have about a million sparrows we need to get rid of…lol

[RougeEmpire]

Dont get me wrong I like Boxers but it’s not a breed I would ever recommend for a family with one or more timid/inexperienced member. They are a high energy breed that needs lots of work. I have no less than half a dozen friends who bought Boxers in the last three years. All of them regret it. Not that they dont love their dogs, they do! But the breeds is big powerful dog that energy of three year old, can leap tall building in a single bound and wants to be WITH YOU all the time. Not to mention the VET BILLs, omg the vet bills. Cancer, tumors, wobblers, epilepsy ect ect ect. My best friends two boxers have destroyed the back yard and damaged all the doors by “boxing” them. They call them Boxers for a reason. Its a breed that needs to get out and WORK every day and I think most people just assume that if you have a big back yard you just toss the dog out there and its all good. Trust me when I tell you that Boxers can run and jump and run and jump and run and jump ALL DAY long never get tired, lols! All these Boxers I know are good obedient dogs, well trained and loveable as can be, but they are still loads of energy and need a stronger hand sometimes to get them to “chill out”. There size and rambuctious(?) nature can make them an intimidating dog to someone who is timid or doesnt have much experience with dogs. Again most have GREAT temperments but they are big dog with tons of energy, super friggin smart (they will figure out how to unlock/latch doors and such), VERY “bouncy” and unforuntly often riddled with genetic disease =(

I would throw my vote to the Poodle or Poodle cross, also Greyhounds (the worlds fasted couch potato!)

[ponies123]

I have two boxers currently, an almost seven year old and one who is a year old. I have had one other before who was tragically hit by a car at 10 months when a pet-sitter was watching him, but he was the greatest dog I have ever had - my true heart dog. The two I have now are also fabulous dogs. I grew up with labs, but after these guys I would never, ever have anything but a boxer. They are so loyal and affectionate, it is true they want to be with you all the time, but I don’t see that as a bad thing. My boy who is one will climb in to bed every night right after we have fallen asleep and squeeze right in between me and my bf, it’s his favorite place to be. We recently upgraded to a king size because the dogs take up so much room. They are truly my fur babies and I feel guilty leaving them behind every morning when I go to work :lol: My younger guy does have a lot of energy, but we live on 17 acres and he has plenty of time to run and exercise even though he doesn’t necessarily have a “job” and he wears him self out. The old lady on the other hand is nothing like that. She sleeps 23 hours a day and is the sweetest, most loving dog in the world. If you pet her you have a friend for life. The only time she really gets wired is when I come home from work and then she spends about thirty seconds jumping and wiggling around. She’s been like that from day one, so just like any other breed they come in the couch potato and wild man varieties - it depends on the dog, not on the breed.

Over all, though I would absolutely recommend the breed. I love everything about them (other than the health problems, and it is true that they experience a lot of cancer especially mast cell tumors, and heart problems). My two are fawn with minimal white (just four white paws and a white chest), but I do have a friend who has a huge white boxer with a black ring around one eye (he is 1/4 American Bulldog too) and he is just as awesome and goofy as my two. Mine too have a problem with flatulence ;), I try to limit what they eat to a non-wheat, non-corn, non-red meat, non-grain kibble diet, but my bf has been known to dress their food with table scraps. Even so, I would take all the farting in the world for these dogs. They are the BEST! Love my boxers

[ponies123]

BTW, Meego is beautiful! He has a very similar face to my boy, Jake. I’m sure they would get along fabulously!

Oh, and one negative about my male boxer: he is too smart for his (and my) own good. He is obsessed with toys. I mean, literally, obsessed. He would play fetch for 24 hours a day if someone would just toss the dang toy for him. After about 15 hours, one generally gets tired of the game and you can hide the toy from him and after a few minutes he’ll give up. But in the morning, as soon as the alarm goes off, he jumps out of bed and RUNS to wherever the toy was hidden. He remembers. And on our 17 acres of horse pasture, yard, barn and house, you can tell him to “get your ball” and he knows exactly where he left it and runs to get it (he’s fast as lightening too). I’ve definitely been on the verge of a breakdown some days over the stupid ball/frisbee/insert toy of the day here.

[Alagirl]

Re: Deafness
It’s linked to the ‘white’ gene.
But: You ought to know by now if you pup can’t hear. You know, come running from 3 rooms over when you quietly open the fridge or a piece of candy…

Dalmatian breeders (good ones) have their pups tested at around 7 or 8 weeks. It’s been a while since I was up to date on such things. While the puppies can hear at birth during early development the blood supply or nerves either or both shut down, causing deafness.
The BAER test is not cheap tho.

Gratz on the dog, he looks like a Ham!

[naturalequus]

@dacasodivine;5890917

Can’t speak on the white boxer or problems.

As for Hill’s, it is considered a crap dogfood. Vets have pushed it for years so people think it’s a good food but it’s not. There is a website I’ll try to find that lists dogfoods rate them.

Taste of the Wild is a good food and pumpkin is good for the tummy. If the hives are caused by food, that should help.

:yes: Can’t tell you anything about white boxers, but another vouch for Hill’s being sh!t food - just look at the ingredients :no: One of our dogs was on it when we got her from the SPCA as that’s their recommended food also (as per their vets… I am sure the SPCA receives all sorts of donations and discounts for using and pushing Hill’s)… she was eating 4 scoops, pooping (solid) like a madwoman (3-5+ a day), and STILL hungry (whining, trying to get into the food bag - and she was being fed more than enough for her weight). Put her on a higher quality food (Go!) and she was down to 2 scoops (same scoop volume), pooping normal (1-2 a day) and had a full tummy. Even her coat changed. The higher quality foods are more expensive but when you’re feeding half the amount because the dog is absorbing more of the nutrients/content, it evens out. I don’t care how much money they put into research, they’re not making use of that research in the form of a good quality dog food. Facts are facts, it’s not ‘bashing’

That said, the food you are currently using might indeed contain an ingredient your new boy is allergic to. Or it could be something completely different. Seconding rice as a great tummy pacifier. Probiotics are fantastic also, as is yogurt. I’ve used all the aforementioned with great results. Never tried pumpkin before, now I’m going to have to go ahead and try it!

Another vote for: http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/
It’s a good website I refer to often; I love that it lists ingredients and gives me an explanation as to why or why not.

Anyway, glad to hear your boy’s feeling better!! He’s absolutely gorgeous, I’m definitely jealous!

[naturalequus]

[QUOTE=Bluey;5893369]
Just be sure to keep in mind that so much you are reading in those dog food web sites is also hype and someone’s questionable opinion, most of it without any credible studies or science behind it, pseudoscience rampant.
Just sounds like they know something, but it is all 99% guessing.

Those web sites, as here on COTH, live by the traffic and advertising and make a nice bundle for their owners.
What they say there, well, much of it is nonsense.

Feed your dog what works for your dog, he is not a ginea pig to try the latest internet dog feeding craze on, especially if it is a dog with special nutritional health issues that need stabilizing.

Do what is best for your dog, even if the Internet dog food police doesn’t agree.;)[/QUOTE]

CBC did a special on how dog food is made and how easy it is to meet approval/standards (I think it was called Pet Food: A Dog’s Breakfast). They actually cooked and canned a dog food themselves, made of old leather boots, sawdust, and other random materials to meet the nutritional requirements needed to have a dog food approved - they called it “Old Boot Dog Food” I believe, or something along those lines. This is not just hype or questionable opinion, what goes into these foods is fact (as listed by the manufacturers themselves :)) - corn products and derivatives, meat by-products, etc. Studies and research proves the digestibility (or lack thereof), suitability, and general healthiness of these ingredients - common sense dictates the rest (such as the ingredient poultry by-product meal being a less quality option than poultry meal or - better yet! - the ingredient chicken). The proof is in the pudding - in our dogs (ie, my own dog on the Hill’s vs. Go!, as one example), which is reflected in their health (daily and long-term) and condition. The ‘hype’ is in our vets pushing foods that are misleading and unhealthy for our dogs. I’ve a friend who’s currently a vet student and she’s come to the same conclusion; she tells me these dog food companies even come to their classes and start pushing their foods on these vet students from the start. Vets receive all sorts of forms of influence and ‘encouragement’ to push foods such as Hill’s Science Diet. It’s honestly maddening.

Here’s the review on the Hill’s Sensitive Stomach: http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?product=133&cat=all
Yikes - it’s first four ingredients are brewer’s rice, corn gluten meal, chicken by-product meal, and (again!) corn meal.

Now compare that to this, for example:
http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?product=2358&cat=3

Research is crucial. Different labels mean different things, and different manufacturers list their ingredients differently (usually in an effort to ‘trick’ the buyer who actually reads the ingredient list), etc.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=naturalequus;5911512]
CBC did a special on how dog food is made and how easy it is to meet approval/standards (I think it was called Pet Food: A Dog’s Breakfast). They actually cooked and canned a dog food themselves, made of old leather boots, sawdust, and other random materials to meet the nutritional requirements needed to have a dog food approved - they called it “Old Boot Dog Food” I believe, or something along those lines. This is not just hype or questionable opinion, what goes into these foods is fact (as listed by the manufacturers themselves :)) - corn products and derivatives, meat by-products, etc. Studies and research proves the digestibility (or lack thereof), suitability, and general healthiness of these ingredients - common sense dictates the rest (such as the ingredient poultry by-product meal being a less quality option than poultry meal or - better yet! - the ingredient chicken). The proof is in the pudding - in our dogs (ie, my own dog on the Hill’s vs. Go!, as one example), which is reflected in their health (daily and long-term) and condition. The ‘hype’ is in our vets pushing foods that are misleading and unhealthy for our dogs. I’ve a friend who’s currently a vet student and she’s come to the same conclusion; she tells me these dog food companies even come to their classes and start pushing their foods on these vet students from the start. Vets receive all sorts of forms of influence and ‘encouragement’ to push foods such as Hill’s Science Diet. It’s honestly maddening.

Here’s the review on the Hill’s Sensitive Stomach: http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?product=133&cat=all
Yikes - it’s first four ingredients are brewer’s rice, corn gluten meal, chicken by-product meal, and (again!) corn meal.

Now compare that to this, for example:
http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?product=2358&cat=3

Research is crucial. Different labels mean different things, and different manufacturers list their ingredients differently (usually in an effort to ‘trick’ the buyer who actually reads the ingredient list), etc.[/QUOTE]

One of our dog club members is a veterinary that specializes in nutrition.
She has given lectures on nutrition at our meetings and yes, you can make any food, human food also, chemically acceptable to the standard labels for it.

Yes, companies do go to universities and give lectures on nutrition and use their food products for examples and promote them.
That doesn’t mean their company or food is automatically suspect because they do that.
Students and their professors discuss that information at length.
They are not idiots sitting there slawjacked and letting someone sell them “a pig in a poke”.

The same with pharmaceutical companies, equipment companies, surgical tools companies, it is the way each company promotes what they sell.

Those companies also support the universities with very large grants so they can do much of the research they do.

That is a SYMBIOTIC relationship that benefits all.
No one is pulling the wool over the professors or student eyes and selling them snake oil products and no one the wiser.

As for “proper” nutrition, there is much more to what is a good food product than meets the eye.

There were some enlightening studies of feeding cattle shredded cardboard in their diet for fiber and how well they did on it.
Why, because our digestive systems to a point has evolved to take in whatever we give it, bar poison, of course, remember melamine and make do with what it gets.

Yes, some dog foods are not very good because they use less digestible ingredients, some are very inconsistent in the quality of the products they use.

In general, dogs today have a better, more varied, safer and abundant nutrition, just as humans do, then we ever had.

I don’t agree that “research is crucial”, especially when it comes to the internet, where there is I will say way more misinformation and pseudoscience pushed with so many agendas behind them and yes, those ARE suspect, they really are after your money and attention.

I think that, while learning about everything in the world around us is always good, it is really not “crucial” to learn about dog foods, relax and feed your dog what works for it, no matter what the internet dog food craze of the moment is.

For every one out there that presents a dog they know that did poorly on some brand of dog food, remember there are millions out there doing fine on that dog food, really.
In 30+ years of seeing the public’s dogs coming in the door of our dog training building, I can say a few looked poorly and a change in food helped them, but the great majority of them looked fine and that was not dependent only on the brand of food they were fed.

Millions of dogs on all kinds of foods doing well, thank you, show us that most dogs do fine, just as humans do, with a very varied diet.
We have evolved to do so.:yes:

[naturalequus]

[QUOTE=Bluey;5911561]

They are not idiots sitting there slawjacked and letting someone sell them “a pig in a poke”.[/QUOTE]

Of course not, but from the mouth of a vet student, they sure do their best to influence these students to buy from and promote THEIR company in lieu of good dog food in general. It just sits wrong with me. I’m not even sure how one can promote a food such as Hill’s when there is so much to gloss over.

Yes, some dog foods are not very good because they use less digestible ingredients, some are very inconsistent in the quality of the products they use.

Definitely - that is my only point. Hill’s is certainly one of them, which has been the consensus here that you seem to dispute.

I don’t agree that “research is crucial”, especially when it comes to the internet, where there is I will say way more misinformation and pseudoscience pushed with so many agendas behind them and yes, those ARE suspect, they really are after your money and attention.

No one here has been advocating the OP take their info off the internet willy nilly and some great sites have been provided. As always, as obvious, one must always consider the source. I feel research is crucial because what we put in our bodies, in our childrens’ bodies, in our pets’ bodies, in the bodies of our livestock - matters. It can reduce or promote longevity and health and general condition. It’s the reason we’re so picky about horse hay quality and the types of grains and concentrates we use. We’ve even noticed time and time again where the form of, say Vit E or Mg for example, makes a difference in effectiveness in regards to our horses. Why wouldn’t the same follow for any other ingredient? And for dog food?

For every one out there that presents a dog they know that did poorly on some brand of dog food, remember there are millions out there doing fine on that dog food, really.

Hey, some people are happy with ‘just fine’, even when it means pooping 6x a day and thus the dog not absorbing what they should be in their dog food (which also affects their wallet) - kudos to them. I am not. Many individuals are not, hence all this recent research as it pertains to dog food, and hence the replies within this thread. When it gets down to it, it just makes sense to ensure the nutritional requirements are met by your dog, and with (at least) decent products they can digest and use.

Did you ever check out the links to the websites posted in this thread so far?? You still believe - the review site I vouched for, for example - that all to be pseudoscience and hype?

[mvp]

If I had I white boxer, I’d name him Tighty Whitey.

[Tornado_Run_Farm]

Thanks, Ponies123, I think he’s cute, too. He has certainly been a godsend for my Springer, Bailey. Since the death of my other dog last May, my Springer has gained about 10lb. He became very depressed and really, really cling-y. I work from home, so I’m used to dogs being afoot, but it got so I couldn’t turn around, go to the bathroom or take a shower without Bailey being 2" away from my heels. Now Meego and Bailey take off for an hour at a time and it’s been great for both. Meego has definitely gained muscle tone and is really getting fit and Bailey has lost about 5 lb. Now I can have some ME time once in awhile without a dog sharing my space.

[QUOTE=mvp;5911784]
If I had I white boxer, I’d name him Tighty Whitey.[/QUOTE] :lol: Speaking of clothes, I DO have a question for you Boxer people - what kind of coat/garment would you recommend for the winter? I’ve never owned a breed that required clothing, but this guy certainly will need some. I’ve googled and found sites dedicated specifically for boxers… Do you find you need boxer-specific garments tailored just for them?

TIA

[Horse_with_No_Name]

He looks a right corker TRF

And yea I wish I had gone with boxer specific clothing because boxers are built so different to most other dogs. Luckily my guy can’t see what he looks like as he gets around in his one style fits all raincoat otherwise he’d run and hide it at the very end of the back paddock :lol: If it hadn’t cost me so darn much and didn’t keep him so warm and dry I’d have biffed it a couple of years ago.

poinies123, Jake is lovely!

[SpringPaddocks]

[QUOTE=Pcostx;5891299]
You are 100% correct. Hill’s/Science Diet IS not worth the $$$! It may be expensive but that doesn’t mean it’s any better then most of the stuff sold at the supermarket.

Tornado Run Farm, if you want to PM me your address, I can snail mail you an excellent article from The Whole Dog Journal discussing dog foods, how to read the labels, and how to choose ingredients that will suit your dog.

It also explains WHY Hill’s foods are NOT as high quality as the advertising hype would have you believe.

As far as the IBS, I have a dog w/ it. I’ve found digestive supplements to be invaluable. I use this one: http://whole-isticsolutions.com/item.asp?productid=6

I’ve also found the only diet my IBS dog can tolerate is a raw diet. I’m happy to give you more info. if you’d like.[/QUOTE]

We feed a raw diet for our dogs as well. Our boxer is 10 years old and used to suffer from IBS. I originally tried a grain free kibble with limited ingredients…and with a protein source other than chicken since my pekinese has food allergies. After researching the benefits of raw, we made the change and my dogs are soooo excited to eat now. I’ve never seen anything like it!. Their teeth are cleaner and their poos are smaller and less stinky too. It seems to help with joint stiffness as well. I have an 18 yr old mix that continues to bounce around like a jumping bean!

Boxers are wonderful dogs. People tried to sway us with the cancer talk before we got our boxer, but there is really nothing like them. Ours is very loyal, patient with our little boys and thinks he’s much smaller than he really is. I always find him curled up into a ball so he can fit into snuggly spaces.

[Kadenz]

[QUOTE=naturalequus;5911512]
I’ve a friend who’s currently a vet student and she’s come to the same conclusion; she tells me these dog food companies even come to their classes and start pushing their foods on these vet students from the start. Vets receive all sorts of forms of influence and ‘encouragement’ to push foods such as Hill’s Science Diet. It’s honestly maddening.[/QUOTE]

You bet they do! And don’t for one second think that the dog food companies do all this because they’re just spreading out their wonderful research. They give away their food, free, to vet students (as well as employees at stores that sell their food); also, the companies themselves often give much of the nutrition information that’s given to vet students (as well as to employees at stores that sell their food).

If you talk to a Hill’s or Euk rep they’ll give you the same old song and dance, about how much money they put into research. But they never talk about how many dollars’ worth of food they give away free to vets, vet students, and others in the retail business, who then in turn hawk their products for them.

I know this for a fact - I received the SD and Euk song and dance when I worked at a high-end pet food store in college; and now I work at a Big 10 University, where every single vet student is given Iams/Euk dog or cat food every month, for free. And guess where the “guest lecturers” come from when the small animal courses cover nutrition?

And yet, when my dog was sick and required a bland diet, my vet told me quite candidly, “Well, you could buy him SD bland kibble, but you’d be better off just cooking chicken and rice for your dog. Less other crap in there than in the Science Diet!”