@findeight
Yes they are, but I have to sell Winchester at his original price or higher because they said they would only give me a certain amount to help me buy another horse. Hopefully i can get some money from side jobs to help get more money in case I can’t sell him at a good price
1 Like
Flat lessons on Winchester with your new instructor will help you with better riding and help to increase his value. You might find you actually like him and want to keep him.
Give your trainer a chance, you can’t change a horse like this overnight.
3 Likes
@SuzieQNutter
Actually, Winchester is pretty good at flat work. He moves really nicely and, as long as no poles or bars are involved, I have a certain level of control over him and I can even enjoy it at times but I don’t want to just do flat work with him. I want to be able to jump him, which I have yet to be able to do without him bolting or going a but faster and messing up our strides/distance. I’ve been with my new trainer about 9 to 10 months but we have yet to progress with the jumping thing.
1 Like
OP, I feel for you. I had a horse that was a bad stopper in my teenage years and my trainer didn’t tell me I absolutely needed to sell her. I didn’t want to sell her because as a horse crazy teen, I loved her. Selling that horse was the best thing I ever did and I only wish I did it years prior before she gave me lifelong confidence issues to the jumps.
Please stop jumping Winchester. You’ll lower his value as he becomes aware he can get away with bolting, and you KNOW it’s a dangerous situation. The faster you sell him, the faster you can get a new horse you enjoy jumping with. Why would you want to jump a horse knowing you’re going to get run away with or worse?
2 Likes
Agree with above, flat work lessons every day on Winchester and it will take hopefully 3 years for you to be a rider and not a passenger.
As I have said before and the poster above, you do not take a horse over poles or fences unless it is 100% listening to you. To do otherwise means injury or death.
If you are not having lessons and not riding every day it will be longer than 3 years. This is a lifetime journey you are on, not one that will be fixed by next week.
If you get another horse it will end up the same if you ride it the same. Your other horse you now know was not lazy. He was starved and in skeletal pain. He could not go.
If you take any sound horse and are going to jump it when it is not ready you will end up with a horse that is rushing.
It is not only Winchester who needs working on.
Jumping is not the be all and end all of riding a horse. It is only part of riding a horse and should only be done when it is safe to do so.
Take a deep breath, relax and ‘you ride the horse you have today’. Not the one you rode yesterday. Both horses are still Winchester. There is no hurry. You don’t have to jump, you don’t have to compete.
Jump school horses if you have to, not Winchester.
1 Like
@SuzieQNutter
As I’ve said before, whenever I ride other horses i can control them perfectly well, I do amazing at shows, and I have never once lost control of one (except a stallion I rode once that was way too big and strong for me). I’ve had him about a year and Winchester has yet to give me a good jumping lesson without him speeding up or pulling hard on the bit. We went almost 2 months him and I with no jumping on flat work and he was amazing but the second he saw poles on the ground he went back to doing what he always does. Flat work hasn’t ever really been a problem, he can get a bit strong on the bit but I can control him most of the time.
My trainer has jumped him and he does perfectly fine but if I jump him he misbehaves or rushes jumps. My old horse, Porthos, was lazy the day we tried him but I liked him, he got lazier because he wasn’t fed well but at the beginning he was always lazy. Winchester has never been lazy and has always rushed jumps and pulled on the bit to take it away from me and to bolt.
I’m young, I’m barely 18 years old, so I want to be able to enjoy my first few years of riding without the stress of a horse that runs away with me and risk serious injury like I did when I broke my arm. I love Winchester but I can understand now that I’m not enjoying him and he isn’t enjoying me, we can’t have a nice day without us fighting each other over control or speed. I want to compete, in Mexico everything works differently and if you don’t start young its hard to get going, so sadly I just can’t see any other choice and others opinions on here have helped me open my eyes. I’ll sell him to the best owner i can find but sadly that owner just isn’t me, not by a long shot.
3 Likes
Yes if you read back you will see that I said selling him will be the cheapest and most fun to do.
What we are saying now is that you don’t jump him until he is sold. We don’t want you hurt. Your trainer can jump him. You jumping him will put his training back and he will lose value.
It sounds like you can trust this trainer a lot more to find a horse that suits you and in the mean time have lessons on school horses or just ride Winchester on the flat.
Your parents might say that he needs to sell for a certain amount. But that doesn’t compute when you are paying board, feed and vets in the mean time as well as training rides which he may need.
4 Likes
He bolts even when there’s a pole on the ground? This is a horse that is telling you something, and loudly. The last bolter I had was terrified of the fences and decided that fast was the best way to go over. The last pig-rooter I owned had a suspensory injury brewing AND back pain and was just in a lot of pain and was expressing it however he could.
For the first, I fixed her by putting her on a 20m circle at the trot with a pole on the ground and trotting it (without touching her mouth) until she didn’t speed up at all. Zero speeding up earned her the ability to stop. Then I put two poles on that circle, did it again. Then I put standards up, but kept the pole on the ground. Then one side of a cross rail, then the other, but the key was - I did NOT touch her mouth or slow her down in any way - I let the circle do that. My goal was just to keep her on the circle.
The second, after his lengthy rehab, was a bit trickier. A Waterford plus putting one hand on the mane and the other pulling straight up when he tried to pig root was part of the solution. The rest was something I would only advise a very experienced rider to do.
The key either way is figuring out why the horse is doing what he is doing. Horses (with a few exceptions) generally want to be compliant. There are few true rogues. They do exist, but there aren’t many of them.
Either way, it doesn’t sound like you are a good fit. Best to find someone who is 
4 Likes
When I tried my horse, he was perfect until I tried one last jump and he charged over it. I didn’t struggle to get control back, but it was like he flipped a switch and was only focused on being a rocket launcher. He stayed all hyped up no matter what I tried. I asked my professional trainer to see if she thought he was green and fixable. She rode him and said yes, she thought so.
2.5 years later, my horse finally did baby green. With a pro. It wasn’t great. Meanwhile I was still doing 2’ and less and lessoning once or twice a week. A pro also would ride him a few times a month. There’s something about a line of jumps that just lights my horse up. My horse is now injured, and my trainer said “I’m not sure you should do the surgery. I’m not sure your horse will ever be the hunter show horse you bought him to be”
Sometimes horses just aren’t meant to do the job we want them to do. I hate to say it, but it’s true. I love my horse very much and will be happy to flat him and perhaps do dressage. There might be something wrong with him causing him to act this way… or he’s simply not suited for it. Same as I’m not suited to swimming or skiing. It’s hard to say, and I still hope we can get back into the hunter ring… if he recovers.
But if I wanted to be a competitor, I’d have gotten a different horse by now. It feels heartless, but that’s the truth of it. Not all horses can do what we want them to. Maybe he is in pain. Maybe it’s poor training. Maybe you’re overhorsed. Maybe not. But, if you want to jump – you’ve got to make a big change 
5 Likes
I really feel for you OP. It sounds like you are making the best decision for both you and Winchester by finding him a new job and a new home.
I tried a whole bunch of horses until I found The One, and I knew within 5 minutes that he was exactly what I needed. I knew in advance what I was looking for (safe, quiet, hunter-type) so it was easy to mentally check off those boxes during my first ride on him. I made sure to try him on multiple occasions, since horses have bad days too.
When I was ready to move on to something more challenging, I again went in with a mental checklist and within 7 minutes I knew I was sitting on the right horse. She was more of a challenge for me, and I had quite a bit of unlearning/re-learning to do on her, but ultimately I never felt unsafe with her which was my bottom line. You can’t have fun if you don’t feel safe, and no amount of ribbons or prizes will ever fix that!
You have said that you enjoy riding some of the other horses at your trainer’s barn; why don’t you make a list of the things that you enjoy about them (“Joey has such a steady trot, Max always feels controllable even at a canter, Star teaches me new things every ride, etc”) and use those as a guideline when you are horse shopping. Be clear and honest with yourself: “I need a horse that is __, __, and __.” Be honest with your trainer and the seller about what you need in a horse, and stick to your guns if things Just Don’t Feel Right.
Request video of a potential horse being ridden by someone else before you go out and try it - I have passed up on a few horses because just from the video I could tell that they had more energy than I wanted to deal with!
In the meantime, ride as often as you can on a different horse that makes you feel safe and where you can improve your riding without fighting the horse. Let your trainer work with Winchester until he is sold so that you can strengthen your confidence.
Don’t forget: you are buying this horse for YOU, not for your trainer, not for your parents, not for the seller. I seriously wish you all the best and I think you are going to go really far once you find your perfect partner
2 Likes
He needs ground work, not flat work. He needs to learn to give to pressure instead of brace into it. I’d recommend looking into a Ray Hunt/Buck Brannaman style person to help get past these issues.
I’ve also had horses with extreme sensitivity to bits show their discomfort in this way. Something is most likely wrong physically. Maybe he’s pinching something in his spine when he jumps.
This said, I had one that had learned to rush and I was never able to fix the problem. I threw everything I had at the problem from physical to mental, and nothing fixed it. She’s a lovely dressage horse now.
No horse is worth dying over. Not every horse is meant to jump either.
1 Like
I found mine through my trainer. She was supposed to be out of my budget but she’s quirky to say the least and takes someone who can deal with her on the ground. She’s a great ride. She needed a person and was leaving a pro’s ranks because of this. She’s changed so much but will never be an easy sell.
OP here to add an Update to this whole thing for those who are curious:
My trainer and I have still been riding Winchester, my trainer rides him more than I do and he jumps Winchester while I work flat and ground. I still struggle with him from time to time, my trainer has been trying to pin point why I struggle so much with the horse and he thinks it might be because I’m quite ‘petite’ (I’m around 164 cm but I weigh only 48-49kg so not a lot of strength against a horse that measures about 162cm to the cross and weighs more than 3 times my weight) and him being extremely strong doesn’t help, but so far we’ve only had two incidents this last month but nothing too bad.
I have finally started trying horses but I can’t seem to decide what I like or I can’t seem to convince myself to start looking properly, it’s just that whenever i ride I sort of feel super insecure, scared, and totally not confident (Winchester just made me feel completely useless and like the worst rider every time he bolted or wouldn’t stop). I recently got on a 9 year old gelding that my trainer absolutely loved for me, he’s named Yuta, he’s a surprisingly lazy thoroughbred who needs a lot of leg (which I love cause I don’t really like the hot heads or the ones that you have to hold back instead of ask to move), but even though my trainer loved him and said he looked pretty good and honest I just didn’t feel a connection with him. I just feel like, even though he is lovely and has such a nice temperament, he simply just does everything for me and it frustrates me a bit that I just sit there and point him where to go at times (or at least today when I tried him). I want a partner and not someone to do everything for me but maybe I’m just being picky and whiny…
Anyways, I’ll be riding him again tomorrow and taking videos and then I’ll decide if I’ll keep him or not and that’s all I’ve really got as an update. Only real thing about Winchester is that some people are pretty interested in buying him and tomorrow someone will come to try him out.
3 Likes
Personally, I think Yuta sounds perfect for you.
Look, no horse is a complete robot. They have varying degrees of both training and willingness/tolerance for a rider’s mistake or lack of direction. But no horse is going to go the same for a novice as it does for (insert top name rider in your discipline of choice here). So a horse that will quietly and competently perform well with you, despite your “fear and insecurity” is what you need right now. You can GET secure and brave on a horse like that. And then, as you increase in confidence and knowledge, you can improve that performance. But you can’t learn to finesse and improve the course until you gotten safe, productive, and skill-appropriate mileage. Then over time you can increase technical aspects and/or jump higher, if you want to be challenged.
It’s not unusual for amateurs to not “connect” with a new horse. If you’re used to riding one horse, even one that’s not suitable, a different ride, even if it’s infinitely more suitable, is just going to feel ‘different’. That’s why it’s essential to have a competent trainer that you trust and that knows your ability. They know what you need better than you know it, at this point. But this is where it’s critical to have a trainer with integrity, who is looking out for the client’s best interests. The “partnership” will come over time, and is not something you’ll feel in the first ride, or even the first month.
And honestly, the horse you need right now, might not be the same horse you need in 2 years from now. It’s why we don’t teach our 15yos to drive in a racecar.
Please, it sounds like even with the new, better trainer, Winchester just isn’t the right match for you. Let him move on to a home where he can shine. And you deserve a safe and suitable partner that lets you learn how to jump safely and with confidence. This sport is too expensive for it to not be fun.
11 Likes
It can take several months to bond with a new horse and remember that goes both ways.
6 Likes
Agree that Yuta sounds good! It’s perfect that this horse does everything you ask - they should do everything you ask if you’re doing it correctly. If your horse is untrained or not a suitable match, then you don’t have a partnership, because you are holding each other back, or even regressing. If you’re doing what you already know how to do and the horse is doing it just perfectly for you, that means you can move on to more technical things together, where you can really develop a partnership in helping each other. This is where you want to be. A partnership is based on trust, and that can only be built over time. Yuta may end up your heart horse, OR Yuta may be the horse that teaches you what you need to know and restores your confidence so when your heart horse does roll around, you are confident and capable enough to be a good and worthy partner.
Also remember, when selling a horse, people want their horse to be at their best, so they’ll usually have it set up to be on its best behavior, whatever formula works for that horse - training rides, turnout, being slightly tired, what have you. If you’re super comfortable on the horse at its best, when it’s being a bit of a “character”, you’re more likely to be able to take it in stride.
2 Likes
Yuta. He’s perfect for you. Right now you are not confident at all, and no wonder with a horse that has really hurt you, and the last thing you need is a horse you don’t really trust. And “just” two incidents in a month is NOT going to help you and it’s not doing Winchester any good when you let him get away with misbehavior. Horses learn through repetition and consistency,. He doesn’t get that from you so he’s not giving it back.
Winchester can’t choose, you can. Make the best choice for both of you and choose Yuta. Let Winchester stay with stronger, more Pro level riders. After all, he’s probably not confident with you either. He needs a stronger rider. You need a horse that is easier for your petit self to ride.
Yuta has more personality then you think, you just don’t know him well enough yet and he isn’t sure about you either. Sale horses get tried by many riders, they aren’t sure who they will end up with or where. They will really blossom after a month or so in a new situation after they get comfortable and start to trust you.
Please dont get suckered into thinking you need a horse that challenging. No you don’t, nobody really needs one of those. Find your challenge in improving your skills, riding more complicated tracks with less time allowed, maybe moving up a level. Not in just staying on and not getting dragged around. Or hurt. Life’s too short for that. For Winchester too.
.
14 Likes
Your whole post is spot-on. This part is so immensely true though. When I first got my heart horse it seemed like he had no personality whatsoever. Really he had just been handled by a ton of people recently and was confused and generally ambivalent about his handlers who he may or may not see again. Once he realized I belonged to him, he truly blossomed. He’s a total ham and a puppy dog now and has the biggest personality. So glad I didn’t base my entire opinion of him off my first interactions.
7 Likes
Coming out of lurk mode, here. The above is good advice. Other’s have spoken of the relationship you have with the horse, and that it goes both ways, like a boyfriend. Don’t be the girlfriend who loves the bad boy, because your love will change him. It won’t. Yuta may very well be the “Nice Guy” you should be with, even though you’re not attracted.
This. One of the best horses I’ve ever had the privilege of owning was completely stand-offish and purely down to business when I tried her. When she came out of her shell? Totally a little sass that had no problem telling me when I got it wrong edith a great mare glare, but was never naughty. That mare taught me so much.
2 Likes
