Please help - posting trot troubles

When I first learned to post the trot I didn’t learn to post the trot. I learned to stand in the saddle. I had to switch instructors to learn and then, they let me get into a habit of using my knee as a pivot point when posting. Now I’m riding with another different instructor and they’re telling me to let go with my legs and gently drape them around the horses side.

How the f do you do that!? Pardon my language, but I’ve been riding for 3 f-ing years and the only thing I have to show for it is an instructor (and club) that hates me and a s-load of bad habits.

Whenever I try to do what she asks, I end up gripping with my calf, I don’t try to. It just happens. I love horseback riding, but at this point I’m just so done with embarrassing myself, having to say that I’ve been riding for 3 years and then riding like this. If I can’t fix this, I’m done.
(Please note that I’m riding in a jumper monoflap, idk if that’ll make a difference)

Knee is a pivot point and you should post to the top of the rise.

drape means, to me, allow to hang loosely, which is not correct. You need a certain amount of tone in your legs as you need to use them.

find a GOOD biomechanics clinician to consult with; entirely depends on what you are doing (clenching, draping, etc.)

OP, don’t despair… Is your current trainer encouraging?

Riding is not a constant learning curve, it goes up, down and stall at some point. I had to step back to perfect my posting trot after years, like 20 yrs, of riding! I was just missing a tiny part that kept me from really going up the levels.

You will learn and relearn, and perfect your riding for the rest of your riding career… The fact that you realize you need more skills and understanding is the first step to improvement!

And you’ll see, even here, we don’t always agree with each other on terms and techniques… hahaha

As for riding in a monoflap saddle, it can be trickier if it’s the first time you ride in one. You are closer to the horse, less bulk from the 2d flap. Saddle fit is a bigger issue than most would think. If the saddle doesn’t fit you, it might cause a lot of problems.

Have a talk with your trainer. :slight_smile:

Yes, but no. It depends.
The most important thing is to be in control of your posting.
The knee being the pivot point - it should also point downward. I ride thinking to put my weight in my knees - it helps with the stability of the whole leg and prevent from pushing onto the stirrup.

drape means, to me, allow to hang loosely, which is not correct. You need a certain amount of tone in your legs as you need to use them.

Drape doesn’t equal loose but inactive.
Not gripping, clenching or stiff, but relaxed. No tension.
It has to be there, hanging but ready to be used. You certainly doesn’t want your leg to be loose, off the horse and flop around.

In dressage this term is often used and it’s the best way to be balanced on top of your horse. It makes for longer, more stable legs. The legs are not « off » the horse, just inactive. When you give legs, you open and bam.

Same goes for jumping - even with a shorter stirrups, your legs have to be around your horse - evenly touching/draping the horse’s sides- only giving signals when needed.

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Your legs need to hang down, along the horses side. Try this at the walk. Let your legs hang. Do not grip with anything. Allow your legs to feel the horse’s sides moving in and out as he walks. When you can feel that you have the correct drape. Then moving up to the trot. Allow your horse to throw you up, which means he must be actively moving at the trot. Allow your hips to come up and forward each time you rise. Lead with your hips, not your shoulders. So you should feel as though you are rolling up on your inner thighs. Do not grip, just go with the roll.

It would be helpful if you can have some one longe you so that you can play with this without worrying about speed or direction.

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OP, as you can see, you will get many different tidbits of “advice” that might contradict despite the best of intentions. Find yourself a good biomechanics clinician who will evaluate YOU and what YOU are doing. That’s the only way to tell. And a good biomechanics clinician will allow you to verbalize the images and words that come to mind when it is correct, and then he or she will use that language with you in the future. :wink:

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I was off with an injury for a few months, and coming back into work conscious of how I’m using my body. Definitely the post burns the thighs. The post comes from the abs and thighs and only needs to be as big as the trot. You can post small and barely touch back down on my horse with her comfy gaits.

My guess is, if you learned to post wrongly at the start and are still having problems with it then there is probably an underlying problem with your seat position or an underlying imbalance in your hips or pelvis.

Yes get yourself to a good seat or biomechanics clinician that is diagnostic not just a drill master.

You don’t need anyone yelling fix your leg! because you can’t fix it. You need someone who can tweak your position and maybe tells you what to tell an rmt or chiro who can also help.

Btw what does “pinching knees” actually mean? My mental image is someone with their ties turned out, possibly dropping toes, with the back of the knee opening and closing against the horse and the calf opening and closing in unison like a nut cracker. So the post is forced and the thighs may pop up and down too. But this thing I visualize isn’t caused by the knee position. The knee position. Is caused by seat and leg problems.

Is that what pinching with knee means? Because obviously when you post properly and your toes point forward you still hinge at the knee. You just aren’t thrusting all your weight into the knee.

To everyone telling me to go see a biomechanics expert, as much as I would love to I can’t. I don’t have the money (or transport) for it. I will say that I do have scoliosis and a collapsed left hip, so there’s definitely something that needs to be fixed there.
At this point, I’ve gotten out of the habit of pushing myself up in the posting trot and I am letting the horse push me up. However, whenever I try to let go with the knee, my calf puts on more pressure then there should be.
I’m also having trouble getting my heel to drop, I’m wondering if that’s caused by the saddle? My instructor’s telling me to get my heel down (I don’t think I have this trouble with my left heel) and the weight won’t go down, it just stays on my crotch. If I try to get it down then it goes on the ball of my foot. I know I used to have this problem in a saddle with too short of a flap. The heel may be the big thing, but if so, how should I even go about fixing that? I know that my crotch would thank me on that one

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Your stirrup looks a bit short to me. Also, have you tried posting without stirrups? It may help fix you some. Also, if you’re only riding once a week, your progress is going to be slow.

With some of your physical issues, you may have to ride a little differently than textbook to compensate and be effective. No biggie, but it may mean that you need to modify your expectations a bit.

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A lot of rising at the trot comes from the hips - not the knees.nor the ankles — you let the horse push you up and a little forward through your hips and this is what enables your legs to relax and drape. It helps to practice this at first without stirrups, on a longe line if you have someone who would be willing to help. You can also practice by putting a bench or stool in front of a mirror and straddling it - then practice pushing your hips up and forward. (it looks kinda funny - anyone passing by might giggle - no matter)
Un-learning and re-learning is so much harder than learning things correctly the first time. If you love to ride, hang in there and one day things will fall into place and you’ll have it :slight_smile:

Absolutely agree with this. It’s so hard to give advice on the internet, because even those things that seem contradictory might not be, they’re just coming from people who are at different places in their dressage journey (or making different assumptions about where you are).

A lot of people talk about not gripping with your legs, but at the same time, if you watch the top riders, their legs certainly aren’t just draping there. The thigh is on the horse and engaged. But at the beginning, most riders need to learn how to sit deeply in the saddle, and trying to hold with your knee/upper leg will prevent this, and causing you to perch or hover.

A lot of dressage, to me, feels like a pendulum. First you need to do one thing, and then you need to correct in the opposite direction, until you find a balance. And with each correction, there’s a bit more subtlety and nuance. It’s the difficulty of trying to explain feel using words.

My best advice is to find an instructor who explains things in a way that makes sense to you, who has the experience to accomplish what you want. Also videoing yourself can be a great learning tool, as well as watching video of riders that you admire and studying what they’re doing, and the subtleties of their seats.

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Yup, definitely lengthen your stirrups a bit. You don’t have the vertical line ear/hip/heel in the photo you posted. That alone makes posting harder than it needs to be. Don’t lengthen stirrups too much right away or you’ll be reaching for the stirrups in a “fork” seat. Your crotch will REALLY hate that.

When your coach says “heels down”, think instead “toes up”. Also, think “Pigeon Toes”, as if you’re trying to touch your horse with your toes. Make sure your knees are pointing forward, not out at 45 degree angles. This involves rotating from your hip joint to place your leg in the right position. Try it standing on the ground first. See how rotating from the hip joint affects your leg position all the way down. You might find a single-offset stirrup helpful to place your weight to the outside of the stirrup. It helped me a lot.

Single offset stirrups are a bit hard to find. Stubben and Sprenger both make them, but they are not widely used in the USA. Like these:

https://stubbennorthamerica.com/product/1101-fillis-stirrup-irons/

Do NOT buy double offset – and when you attach these to your saddle, be sure the “long” side of the stirrup iron is away from you. This helps open the knee and allows for an easier drape around the horse’s ribs.

Try this for your collapsed hip – which I would suspect comes at least in part from your scoliosis. While walking around warming up, stretch your arms (one at a time) up above your head. Become aware of your seatbones and notice if you sit more on one or the other when you have an arm in the air. For instance, if you’re concave to the left (right side longer), stretch up with your left arm ans see if it helps lengthen your right side.

There! That was probably more info than you wanted or needed! Don’t give up! Riding is a lifelong pursuit. After 50 + years I’m still learning stuff!

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I agree with doing a few minutes of posting without stirrups every ride, if you can. It will help you to really feel your hips moving with the motion of the horse and it will make it obvious how much core strength you are putting into it. Don’t overdo it - if you get too tired you are likely to start really pinching with your knees to make up for a tired core.

Regarding stirrups, a visualization that really helped me was my instructor telling me “your stirrups are there to support the weight of your legs. They aren’t there to push off of”

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Physically, some people are unable to get that “heel down” look… my observation is that many do it at the risk of locking their ankles. This is counter productive, as correctly the weight should drop through your heels. This cannot happen with a locked ankle.

As far as your calves go, let the weight stay on your thighs, but do not lock them. Roll up on them keeping them in light contact with your saddle. If you close them down, it will or should slow your horse. :wink: Again lead with your hips, but don’t focus on up but forward.

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An ounce of prevention…

practicing the wrong thing won’t get you anywhere; biomechanics clinicians range from $65 an hour up over $300 an hour. See if there’s a clinic you can audit or anyone who comes to your area. It’s worth skipping a few lessons on hometurf from what it sounds like you are getting in terms of feedback.

Especially with your scoliosis and hip issues.

Working against yourself, your saddle, your position, will make it harder for you to understand what is being taught.

It’s not about heels down… Heels should not necessarily be down when riding. Your weight should not be in your heels.

I agree with tons of the advice above, especially some of the very specific advice, and even one or two sessions with a great biomechanics person will change your world. Sounds like your trainer might benefit as well.

Good luck! Keep updating!

Such great points!

The pendulum analogy is great, also a bird circling higher and higher is a good analogy. Seeing the same thing but from different points of view and altitudes.

Hi there HaleyEventing!

You’ve had some really great advice, I just have a couple of things to add.

First thing, from that photo it looks a little as though your saddle may be putting your leg a little too far forward? I can’t see clearly enough on my phone, so could be wrong, but if your saddle is encouraging you into a chair seat by placing your leg forward of the ear/shoulder/hip/heel line when your stirrup leather is hanging straight down, then you’re always going to struggle with your rising trot. You might need to invest in a saddle that fits you a little better and has the stirrup bar fitted slightly further back. I am sure great riders who have a really strong position can sit correctly in pretty much any saddle, but we mere mortals need all the help we can get!

Second thing is just picking up on what you said about not having the funds or transport to access a biomechanics trainer. You could do worse than have a look at some of the Mary Wanless Ride With Your Mind materials. There are books and DVDs and I think she does stuff on social media too these days, and she explains the rising trot mechanism really clearly. I was fortunate enough to attend a clinic with Mary on my last horse, and the main thing she helped me with was my seat and leg in rising trot. It made a huge difference to the horse and how he went for me. I am by no means a great rider, and the people who’ve trained me since have despaired of many many things about my riding, but the way I rise to the trot hasn’t been one of them, so to my way of thinking she must have had something right.

Very best of luck with it and please don’t get disheartened.

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Yes

Yep

I have a friend with very mild scoliosis and tight uneven hips and it absolutely gives her some of these problems, in particular that her leg slides back and her toe points down. The problem starts in the hip and pelvis not in the ankle. Find someone locally who you can take some seat lessons from even if they have to lend you a lesson horse and you take the bus there. A regular instructor often isn’t competent to deal with position issues stemming from riders physical limitations. All they can do is shout heels down! louder and louder.

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When you go “up” at the post, think about lengthening the back of your legs, from top of the legs all the way through knees, hamstrings to heels, while gently swing your hips upward and forward toward the pommel. Your knee caps will drop just a hair when you go up, and is an indication that you are not pivoting upon your knees.

The key here is to lead with your hips not your shoulders. Leading with your shoulders instead of your hips during the up phase is most likely what cause you to pivot at your knees.

By the way, as your skills improve, you will learn and relearn posting trot (as well as a whole slew of other things), so don’t feel bad about it. After riding dressage seriously for twenty years, I’m still learning/refining my posting trot.