Has anyone ever had a farrier that sets the shoe back on the horse and uses clips? The toe is over the front of the shoe right after shoeing. He says he does this to all his performance horses that jump. I’m not liking this. Any experience?? i have rarely ever used clips. What would be the reason for clips? Thanks for any help
Not a farrier, but I have found that clips tend to help my horses keep their shoes on, especially if the hoof seems a bit weak or flaky. My boy is currently going with regular shoes on the front, and clips on the hinds (not sure the reasoning for that as I wasn’t at the appointment) but I DO know that my pony who has terrible feet almost always gets clips on in the spring/summer when we know there is likely to be fly stomping going on. That action alone wrecks havoc on her feet. In the winter, she gets regular shoes with rim pads and borium.
No idea about why the set-back…unless he thinks that it might help with stride break-overs?
He said for break over but this horse has great feet. He was constricting the heels and I had him open them up some today. He clips everything. Every horse he does. I just ddidn’t understand why. But my main concern is leaving that toe over the shoe. Even though he said he shoes for conformation he also said he shoes all his jumping horses this way. So they can’t all have the same confo. Wouldnt that also make it so you have to reshoe sooner than setting them normal?
If you think that he is doing a bad job, for whatever reason, and he isn’t willing to do it your way, just find another farrier. Not saying he is wrong and you are right, but thinking you and he would both be happier if you move on. 
That said, my farrier uses clips on almost every horse, but that is more because of our (usual) mud and tendency to lose shoes in it than anything else, I think. But if we ask him not to, say for a conformation horse, he’s fine with complying. And he doesn’t have a set way of shoeing for a certain discipline, but looks at each horse individually. That is the only thing that bothers me from your description, that the farrier sounds like he does the same thing to every horse no matter what the movement, conformation, etc. is.
I’m not a farrier, but it would seem to me that it would help the shoe/nails to not experience as much torque.
Shoes get set behind toes when toes cannot be trimmed back far enough, in order to put the breakover back where it belongs. If the foot is trimmed properly every time, the toe will move back, and there will be little to no need to set the shoe back.
The fact that the farrier sets shoes back “on all performance horses” that jump" is a huge red flag for me.
Clips can really help shoes stay on, but they will take a lot of foot off if/when the shoe is ripped off. I would not allow clips without a good reason, and “just because it’s a performance horse” isn’t good enough for me - it needs to be about the individual horse, whether he’s a trail horse or a jumper
Why did you have to have the farrier “open up” heels that the farrier was causing to become contracted? Contracted heels typically come with long toes, so that all doesn’t sound good.
When you say he sets the shoe back so the toe is hanging over a little, I picture my TB who has this arrangement to improve breakover, and it works really well. You can see from the wear patterns on his shoes and feet that it’s working the way it should. My horse has been in Natural Balance shoes for a long time, and they also facilitate this.
As far as clips - one of ours, who had shelly walls but good soles, always had clips. Same farrier, different horse with great walls, has never had clips. They were good when we were putting studs in for eventing, seemed to stabilize the shoe when we were screwing things in and out. That’s the sort of thing I tend to leave to the farrier unless he asks me.
Well see not my farrier. Half leasing and owner has no clue. Barn uses farrier so just does this horse also. Horse has awesome strong feet. This is where I can’t figure out why he has 2 nails in each side and a clip. On all 4. No nasty mud to suck shoes off. Asked about heels. Was blown off like I’m a dumb horse woman. Then came back and explained oh yeah. I’ve been working on that. Funny how the the shoe got much wider on the heels then the ones he pulled :no: then says he looks at Confo to shoe all his horses but then tells me that all his performance jumpers, even the 200k+ ones he shoes this way :no: like that’s suppose to impress me. So which is it? You shoe them all that way set back or you look at all their confo and they all happen to need to be set back. But he did tell me that 80% of horses are over at the knee 
Oh forgot. The toes are also squared off on every horse at this barn. Nobody has a round hoof
The setting shoes back and squaring the toe a bit is to improve breakover, but not all horses need this, and even fewer need time and again.
I do not like farriers with one-size-fits-all philosophies, but I have seen several farriers who operate this way. Makes no sense to me.
Unless I have a horse who needs clips to keep shoes on, I don’t like them. I don’t like the OMG moment when a horse springs a shoe just enough to be standing on the clip.
Sounds like most have my thought process. Atleast I got him to give him some room in the heels. Oh and the assistant decided to join in and say if they didn’t set him back like that then his heel will drop ??. Never heard that one either
Oh at jb
The clips are to help take torque off the nails is what I was told. Toes are back because it’s a performance horse that jumps.
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Oh and the assistant decided to join in and say if they didn’t set him back like that then his heel will drop ??. Never heard that one either[/QUOTE]
More weirdness.
[QUOTE=rabicon;8261841]Oh at jb
The clips are to help take torque off the nails is what I was told. Toes are back because it’s a performance horse that jumps.[/QUOTE]
Yes, the clips do help stabilize a shoe, especially on horses who are exuberant in turnout, or, like a Jumper or Eventer (and others) who make a lot of sharp turns. But that does not, should not mean that every horse gets clips just because it’s a “performance horse that jumps”. This guy has made up his cookie-cutter method that just because one horse needed certain things, they all must need that same thing.
Clips can cause a whole lotta problems, but the risk is worth it IF the horse actually needs them. To use them just because, it adding an unnecessary risk.
My farrier uses clips on both of my horses(TBs). My younger mare has front shoes only and she has 1/4 clips. My older mare was in 1/4 clips for quite a while, but as she is getting older her feet are changing and the previous time she was shod, he did front clips. This last time she was shod, no clips at all. The clips were only on her front feet.
Well I’m gonna talk to the owner and see about switching to my guy. I’ve used him for almost 15 years and he has been amazing and surprise!! My horses are shoed differently for what they need ?? shocking right. Thanks guys. I just wanted to make sure what my gut was saying was correct
Yes that setting back causes a lot of pulled shoes from overreaching. BTDT. Don’t know why that fad started years ago but it caused a lot of pulled shoes on the warmbloods here.
Setting back isn’t what causes grabs. Too long shoe heels allows that. Shoes are set back all the time for valid reasons. It’s what the farrier does with the heels that matters.
Setting back the shoes decreases breakover time and can prevent heel grabbing by getting the hoof off the ground before the hind lands on it. I’ve been through many farriers and worked with one for awhile and it’s pretty standard for jumping horses.
Clips help keep shoes on by taking the shear force off of the nails. I have them on my one hard working hunter, left them off of the greenie who isn’t working hard.
[QUOTE=rabicon;8261929]
Well I’m gonna talk to the owner and see about switching to my guy. I’ve used him for almost 15 years and he has been amazing and surprise!! My horses are shoed differently for what they need ?? shocking right. Thanks guys. I just wanted to make sure what my gut was saying was correct[/QUOTE
Well please do let us know how that conversation works out for you…
For sure, setting the shoe back increases the breakover time/moves the BO back.
But at some point you can move it back too far, and the horse has no grip/dig at the toe, and is moving more akin to working in softer/deeper sand, which can have total body ramifications.
If the toe is back where it belongs, there’s not a lot of room to move the BO back any farther without starting to cause issues due to a compromise movement pattern.
