Please help

[Wish_Upon_a_Star2000]

[QUOTE=meupatdoes;7961770]
Ok, this is great that we are all supposed to be nice to the 15 year old, but can I just see if I am following along correctly?

We have a horse owner who claims her horses “don’t cost money.”
Trims are allegedly done by dad, but it appears the money spent on dental = ZERO. Money spent on vaccinations =ZERO. Money spent on maintaining a stall= ZERO. Money spent of food other than what is growing in the pasture =ZERO. Money spent on training or lessons=ZERO. Willingness to get job in store= ZERO.

Horse is now standing around foraging in its field with a fistulous wither, a condition which is hard to come by unless you have a serious accident or otherwise seriously eff stuff up. A pretty good indicator of neglect people if I have to spell it out for you!!

Dad the trimmer is now also Dad the vet who figures they can probably take it from here, all in the interests, one presumes, of spending ZERO.

At what point do we actually get to determine that someone is a bad horse owner?? Like, how LITTLE CARE can someone actually get away with before we are allowed to be like, dude, seriously???

But let’s not be mean to the 15 year old.[/QUOTE]

Ok so I meant,its not coming out of my pocket and my mom and dad pay for that trimming,deworming,and everything else,tho we have to do our share dad doesnt do the trimming,vetting.Its really not my fault that my dad is like that…please be understanding? if you will? and don’t worry,she’s not in a bad condition!People around here KNOW that our place is like horse heaven!we take rreally good care of our horses,promise you that! Ok?please dont pick on me becuz I do things different and cant get a trainer…?you were 15 once too

[Wish_Upon_a_Star2000]

[QUOTE=Jackie Cochran;7961749]
Dear Wish,

It can be done. I had trail ridden for 4 years (once a week, no lessons), then not ridden for nearly a decade, got my first horse–a freshly gelded 5 yr. old Anglo-Arab with three weeks under saddle. I got around 3 months of lessons, then I was on my own. I sporadically got lessons for around 8 years, had to move to a stable where I was the most knowledgable person on riding and training (not that I knew much back then.) My wonderful first horse became super responsive to my aids, and I could still put complete beginners on his back.

The way I did it–I followed Forward Seat, Littauer’s “Common Sense Horsemanship” and other Forward Seat authors.

You ride Western? I greatly recommend “The Schooling of the Horse” by John Richard Young, it is about Western training. This is NOT a book of how to train for modern Western Pleasure show classes, this is a book on how to train a horse that is reliable, calm, responsive, and well prepared to go on to specialized training.

John Richard Young also wrote “Schooling for Young Riders”, another book I highly recommend. It has a very good discussion on how to effectively use a bosal, though most of the riding is hunt seat. It also covers the necessary ground work thoroughly. The author describes, explains, and gives his solutions in detail of how he and his daughter trained a completely bratty spoiled untrained pony stallion (a 2 yr. old not even halter broke to tie). This is the book I would go to when I had an “unsolvable” problem.

Both books are available throught the Amazon web site for less that $10.00 USD each.

Let the wither heal. Be REALLY careful about saddle fit. Not only will you have to worry about saddle fit at first, you are going to have to check the saddle fit and padding at least every six months because, with good riding, her back muscles will grow. Until the wither heals work from the ground, leading, lunging, round pen work, ground driving, you can do LOTS of things with a horse from the ground.

As for riding and training, it can be done, and it will really help if you can draft someone to do cell phone pictures and videos, then you can compare yourself to the pictures in the above books.

Oh, and by the way, I was suffering from my undiagnosed Multiple Sclerosis for my first 22 years of riding seriously when I finally became too disabled to train young horses. It can be done.

Good luck, you have my best wishes.[/QUOTE]

Thank you I appreciate your time to answer this! Wow!thats so cool! Thanks for answering nicely appreciate that! ok yes’m,I will do that!!thanks!

[D_BaldStockings]

[QUOTE=Wish_Upon_a_Star2000;7961588]
groundwork:) haha i want to work on everything!to bond with her,get to know her more and i ahem never said i was experienced. Also,I never would pad it up to make it fit!that would make it worse!!!a western saddle is supposed to fit withOUT a saddle pad! and that lady is busy with other horses,plus,she lives farther away!she doesnt have all the time in the world…and I’m not even sure if she’d even like to do lessons :)[/QUOTE]

While of course a western Saddle must fit the horse, You really must use a good quality pad when riding with one - they are not meant to be ridden without a pad. you may make a horse sore or cause a rub, eventually a saddle sore.

If the horse has a fistula, that would be very deep and require extensive vet work; while a sore, or swelling due to wrong work and a saddle without a pad will heal in short order because it is in the uppere layers of skin and muscle.

If you do not have a good pad and the saddle has caused a problem (it wouldn’t if it fit), then you are going to be riding bareback after this horse heals.

I would suggest a helmet for any young rider, broken arms heal; broken brains, not so much.

People learn faster with better instruction - that would be hands on and someone aiding and guiding you.

Love is not a substitute for knowledge, whether with horses or motorcycles or fast cars.

[Wish_Upon_a_Star2000]

And,everyone,I want you guys to know this,I realize I didnt make it clear,but she HAD fistulous withers,and we caught it BEFORE it burst.So yes,it was a fistula still.but it hadnt burst.

[Angela_Freda]

[QUOTE=Windsor1;7961782]
Okay, forget just being nice. What do you think is going to be more effective, or has the best chance to be more effective (in terms of getting her to take action to benefit both herself and her horse) – getting into a pissing match with her, making her defensive and alienating her, or trying to be nice and persuading her to come around that way?

I mean no guarantees that she’ll listen either way, but generally you catch more flies with honey.[/QUOTE]

When someone asks a question and every suggestion is responded to with ‘but… but’ and arguments and reasons why those solutions aren’t possible… it never ends well.

There’s being young, and then there’s being too interested in… whatever…being right? I dunno’,… to stop and listen to the answers and consider that there might be help in that answer and graciously tuck it away for future reference or consideration.

It’s not like we all ambled into her barn and started poking our noses in… she asked…

[CaitlinandTheBay]

[QUOTE=meupatdoes;7961419]
The red words under your user name when you open this thread.

Bikes are also a thing.
Ask me how I know.[/QUOTE]

Same here. I biked something like 15 miles a day going back and forth to pay for my pony in high school. It’s not easy, but it’s worth it if you want it.

[zipperfoot]

[QUOTE=Bluey;7961826]
Well, that is what our vet told us, but that was years ago, maybe today it has changed?
The local cattle feedlot manager needed a horse on short notice and asked us to loan them one, we did and he did have brucellosis and was kept in isolation at the vet clinic until cleared, which took several weeks, best I remember.[/QUOTE]

Just a follow-up: Montana was declared brucellosis-free by the USDA in 1985. (just in case anyone was wondering about it…)

[Alex_and_Bodie_s_Mom]

OP, here’s the thing: I’ve read all the posts, and I’m not even going to address the fistula issue.

At 15, I subscribed to three different horse magazines. I read every book I could get my hands on, particularly those (old) ones put out by the British Horse Society. I took lessons wherever and whenever I could. I raised chickens to sell eggs so that I could afford the lessons. My parents were definitely kind enough to haul for me (which they insisted on doing until I was nearly 25 – but that’s another story, sorry), but the fact is – I was out there learning and paying my way.

We’ve all learned. Sometimes the hard way. That’s why when someone obviously green posts on the board, we jump in because we’ve been there, done that, and don’t want to see others make the same mistakes.

Has the mare ever been hauled for x-rays to see if there’s a foreign object? Are you absolutely 100% sure that the vet is correct? Have you had a second opinion? You keep saying “it’s what we call it out here.” But are you really using the proper term that other horsemen know?

Read. Learn. About horse health. About saddle fit. About nutrition. Figure out a solid plan for lessons. Confidence is NOT built overnight, but it sure can be lost overnight. And just to head off your arguments – no, you NEVER learn everything. No one does. Not even George Morris himself. That’s why lessons with a competent instructor are so vital. They can identify WHY you feel afraid, and then provide a program to help you gain your confidence.

I’ll add one more thing: your parents keep using the excuse “you’re already good enough” in order to not pay for lessons. Would they expect you to be a world-class tennis player without any lessons? Or to play a musical instrument? Or drive a car? Same. Exact. Thing. Still, at 15, there must be something you can do to help pay for your own lessons.

[Wish_Upon_a_Star2000]

[QUOTE=Bluey;7961778]
I didn’t read thru the pages, but caught that the horse has fistulous withers and a vet has seen/treated it?

That doesn’t make much sense with what else is being reported.
A vet presented with fistulous withers will take samples and send them to the state veterinary laboratory, as that can possibly be brucellosis and that is a reportable disease:

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/vs/nahss/disease_status.htm

The vet should have warned to be very clean, use rubber gloves and disinfect any and all carefully, at least until the tests come back.
That disease is undulant fever in people and they can get it from an infected animal.

Just wondering if this is a real story or one more imagined drama thread.[/QUOTE]

no this isnt a fake! I honestly have this problem,but I’m almost wondering if maybe I should have just kept shut up.I appreciate any polite feedback…didnt know I asked for some rude comments? and as far as the fistula;it never burst,we caught it before it burst so that was good

[cutter99]

I call troll!

[Wish_Upon_a_Star2000]

[QUOTE=D_BaldStockings;7962008]
While of course a western Saddle must fit the horse, You really must use a good quality pad when riding with one - they are not meant to be ridden without a pad. you may make a horse sore or cause a rub, eventually a saddle sore.

If the horse has a fistula, that would be very deep and require extensive vet work; while a sore, or swelling due to wrong work and a saddle without a pad will heal in short order because it is in the uppere layers of skin and muscle.

If you do not have a good pad and the saddle has caused a problem (it wouldn’t if it fit), then you are going to be riding bareback after this horse heals.

I would suggest a helmet for any young rider, broken arms heal; broken brains, not so much.

People learn faster with better instruction - that would be hands on and someone aiding and guiding you.

Love is not a substitute for knowledge, whether with horses or motorcycles or fast cars.[/QUOTE]

Thanks yes,the saddle was fitted,and of course u never ever ever ride without a saddle pad :)

[Wish_Upon_a_Star2000]

[QUOTE=cutter99;7962037]
I call troll![/QUOTE]

please tell me why your calling me a name? I am just asking for help…why are you saying (or implyin)that I dont care for her properly? Please,I have a heart for my animals,just like you makin me feel like I;m doing something wrong here?

[Wish_Upon_a_Star2000]

[QUOTE=Angela Freda;7962011]
When someone asks a question and every suggestion is responded to with ‘but… but’ and arguments and reasons why those solutions aren’t possible… it never ends well.

There’s being young, and then there’s being too interested in… whatever…being right? I dunno’,… to stop and listen to the answers and consider that there might be help in that answer and graciously tuck it away for future reference or consideration.

It’s not like we all ambled into her barn and started poking our noses in… she asked…[/QUOTE]

Well,ok so i asked this whole question,yes! i wanted help,yes! I’m not interested in being right tho.For those who suggest saddle fit,I said that was already off the list…at least for while my horse was at my place? and as far as the ‘but but’,i didnt know I answered like that,I’m sorry But my parents are strict,and I can’t change them

[Windsor1]

[QUOTE=Angela Freda;7962011]
When someone asks a question and every suggestion is responded to with ‘but… but’ and arguments and reasons why those solutions aren’t possible… it never ends well.

There’s being young, and then there’s being too interested in… whatever…being right? I dunno’,… to stop and listen to the answers and consider that there might be help in that answer and graciously tuck it away for future reference or consideration.

It’s not like we all ambled into her barn and started poking our noses in… she asked…[/QUOTE]

I completely understand all of these things and that she was being a know-it-all teenager and a pain in the ass. No argument there. But understanding these things, I STILL don’t think it’s the least bit productive to engage in a combative back-and-forth with a fifteen-year-old who clearly doesn’t know what she doesn’t know. Whatever anyone here wants to teach her isn’t going to get through if she’s immediately put on the defensive. And as I said before, it might not get through anyway. But I don’t think fighting with her improves your odds.

[Wish_Upon_a_Star2000]

[QUOTE=RxCate;7961743]
We have all given you solid, advice, most of which you’ve chosen to ignore.

My advice to you is this:

1. Get a job as soon as you can, no matter where it is, to get ANY money towards training/lessons.

2. In the meantime, google trainers in your discipline of choice, and in horsemanship in general and READ. Your mare is laid up right now, take this time to spend time grooming her and being around her, don’t worry about ground work, let her heal. Spend you free time reading all you can and absorbing all you can about riding.
   Watch the recent George Morris Horsemastership clinic on USEFNetwork.com - They are riding english, but EVERYTHING that is being taught can be used across any discipline.

3. Ask questions whenever you are around other horse people/at shows. Just ask and find out why certain things are done and watch and LISTEN to what they tell you. Be an observer while your mare is healing and just take in all information you can.[/QUOTE]

Thanks.I’ve been spending time with her,and grooming her,and groundwork too. The only advice I saw was the polite ppl who actually tried to help Everyone else was accusing me of something…or else was there actually advice in there cuz I didnt see it…?It did sound to me like they were tearin me down.?

[Wish_Upon_a_Star2000]

[QUOTE=Windsor1;7962051]
I completely understand all of these things and that she was being a know-it-all teenager and a pain in the ass. No argument there. But understanding these things, I STILL don’t think it’s the least bit productive to engage in a combative back-and-forth with a fifteen-year-old who clearly doesn’t know what she doesn’t know. Whatever anyone here wants to teach her isn’t going to get through if she’s immediately put on the defensive. And as I said before, it might not get through anyway. But I don’t think fighting with her improves your odds.[/QUOTE]

Being a know-it-all???Sorry if I came across that way,but people cant seem to see that I can’t have a trainer,I’m simply not allowed!You know how many times i got in trouble asking for one?and I’ve also said that its not saddle fit,but people keep saying that it is,when the vet said it wasnt,and Princess IS my horse…even tho I haven’t taken lessons doesnt mean I havent picked up some things.So if I say its not saddle fit,please trust me? And I’m sorry if I came across as a know it all,or a pain,thats not what I meant to do,but I was getting frustrated becuz ppl seem to like rubbing it in that I have this problem,and accusing me of not caring properly for my horse,when she is indeed in very good hands!so please,be nice?and try to help?and if you;re going to help,thank you so much!if you’re going to be difficult,mean,and harsh,please,rant on someone else?thank you

[Kwill]

[QUOTE=Wish_Upon_a_Star2000;7962043]
please tell me why your calling me a name? I am just asking for help…why are you saying (or implyin)that I dont care for her properly? Please,I have a heart for my animals,just like you makin me feel like I;m doing something wrong here?[/QUOTE]

You didn’t do anything wrong. It really is hard to see an entire horse keeping/handling situation here from posts. So people tend to draw conclusions, and sometimes negative ones.

[ReSomething]

I had a horse when I was a teen, she’d had fistulous withers and some serious scars to show for it, but that’s neither here nor there.

I rode that horse every day just bopping around, and taking lessons that I earned the money for selling manure, pet sitting, baby sitting etc., and I still didn’t get as much out of the riding time as I did as an adult when I rode school horses at a lesson barn for the $30 bucks an hour. I got a lot more out of the drill and the exercises and just the sheer fact that the horses knew what to do so when I gave the cue properly as instructed the horse responded and I got positive feedback on how to cue etc… I also didn’t have to spend months sitting around waiting for the weather to get better and all that.

Sure my horse and I had this great “bond” on the ground, she was a great pet and all that but she was a terrible riding horse with bad habits and that is terrifically destructive to one’s self confidence when one can’t get the Black Stallion Syndrome to quite come out the way one wants it to. There’s no romance in it. It boils down to hard work, hard, consistent work.

[Jackie_Cochran]

I am an old fogey. I remember back when there weren’t professionals at every corner, where GOOD lessons were too far away for me to get to from my DC suburb, my parents would not let me ride anyway, much less have a horse.

Montana? Man, oh man, I’ve been out West a few times, I wouldn’t let my kids bicycle on the narrow two lane roads either. Stuff can be FAR AWAY out West.

I am not the only person on the planet who learned most of their horsemanship from books. And how horribly bad a rider am I? Even though I am severely disabled with MS, my riding teacher feels perfectly confident in putting me up on ARABS WITH PROBLEMS, at first because she heard my story, how I had trained my first horse all by myself except for the first three weeks (I couldn’t afford a trainer or good lessons), and how I had bought back a ruined 7/8 Arab mare from double bridle and standing martingle to riding on sagging reins, snaffle bit, and no martingle in 6 months again with no trainer or riding teacher in sight. So she put me, handicapped as I am, on her “problem” Arab gelding (too sensitive for beginners) and he gladly took care of me, because of all the experience I got by DOING IT MYSELF. By the way, my first horse, the one with just 3 weeks of professional training? 14 years later a dressage rider was looking for a confidence horse, she rode my gelding, her stable owner rode my gelding, her dressage rider rode my gelding, and they were all full of praise about his instant responsiveness to the aids and she leased him. Her dressage teacher liked him most of all, she told the lady to GET HIM! This horse had NEVER had a dressage training session in his life, just amateur Forward Seat riding ala Littauer, Dillon, Chamberlin and Kirschner.

If I can do it, with a messed up neurological system, very bad balance, and not very well coordinated, I fail to see how it is impossible for this determined young lady to do it too.

Wish, when you get and read these books, work on what is in them, and when you feel like going further I can refer you to other books too. Yes, most of the good ones are hunt seat, but Wish, good riding is good riding, it really does not matter what saddle you are in.

I admire you girl. I am also so very sorry that other people have been getting after you on this board. You sound like you have the makings of a very good horsewoman.

Feel free to PM me at any time.

[CaitlinandTheBay]

[QUOTE=Wish_Upon_a_Star2000;7962070]
Being a know-it-all???Sorry if I came across that way,but people cant seem to see that I can’t have a trainer,I’m simply not allowed!You know how many times i got in trouble asking for one?and I’ve also said that its not saddle fit,but people keep saying that it is,when the vet said it wasnt,and Princess IS my horse…even tho I haven’t taken lessons doesnt mean I havent picked up some things.So if I say its not saddle fit,please trust me? And I’m sorry if I came across as a know it all,or a pain,thats not what I meant to do,but I was getting frustrated becuz ppl seem to like rubbing it in that I have this problem,and accusing me of not caring properly for my horse,when she is indeed in very good hands!so please,be nice?and try to help?and if you;re going to help,thank you so much!if you’re going to be difficult,mean,and harsh,please,rant on someone else?thank you :)[/QUOTE]

“I cant” is such a terrible attitude to live with, especially at such a young age. "It will be hard’, ‘I’m not sure how to do it’, ‘I’ll need help to succeed’ will take you much, much further. “I can’t” is a death sentence- you’ve already given up.